Americans - Would you change gun laws?

[Beckwin]

Woozie's data still stands because obviously a large share of guns are being sold to people who either can't keep proper tabs on them or used them improperly themselves.

[Isiolia]

They're saying that 14% bought the gun themselves (i.e. a friend or family member didn't give it to them, and it wasn't obtained illegally through the streets/blackmarket). It clearly says that 3/10 got the weapon from blackmarket/other illegal sources, whereas people in this topic have been stating "majority" or "8/10".

You're focusing in too hard on that one statistic to see the bigger picture that's being presented.

3 out of 10 obtained the gun outside of regulated sales, but purchased it in some way. 1 out of 10 stole the gun. So 40% or so there. Then another 40% from got it from friends or family.

Now, whether the friends or family obtained the gun illegally or stole it isn't accounted for. All those statistics say is that the one who used it in a crime didn't personally obtain it in that way, instead it was given.
Whether or not they did, the end-user of the gun didn't need to apply for the gun to be given to them. They didn't undergo a background check.

Accounting for the overall statistics, it's be more than fair to say the vast majority of guns being given to said criminals would also be illegally purchased, stolen, or given to the previous owner by friends or family.

However, even setting that aside, the general statistics presented show that very few criminals would -not- have a gun based on harsher gun control because over 80% of them are never subjected to it based on how they acquire their weapons.

[Beckwin]

except some of the stolen guns and some of the familiar/borrowed guns wouldn't be there for use.

[*Shinzon*]

Its still an incredibly small portion of crimes, where in which case the time dedicated to redesigning current gun laws don't outweigh how many gun crimes there are a year.

[Beckwin]

Some data on overall homicide rates (all "methods") to compare to the gun death chart from earlier:

#24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
#30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people
#40 France: 0.0173272 per 1,000 people
#43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
#46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people
#49 Germany: 0.0116461 per 1,000 people
#51 Netherlands: 0.0111538 per 1,000 people
#55 Ireland: 0.00946215 per 1,000 people
#56 Switzerland: 0.00921351 per 1,000 people
#60 Japan: 0.00499933 per 1,000 people

Switzerland is the oddball. Switzerland is also paradise from what I can tell.

[Enkidu]

except some of the stolen guns and some of the familiar/borrowed guns wouldn't be there for use.

You certainly cannot jump to that conclusion... They obtain weapons from friends/family simply because it's easy, not because it's the only way they can find a weapon. If these weapons were illegal the black market for them would simply grow. A few years of smuggling and anyone who really wants a gun would get one and what criminal wouldn't want one since they'd know with almost 100% certainty that anyone they rob will not be armed? The only people they'd have to look out for are the cops, and unless there's a police station every other block that's not enough to be safe.

When the war on drugs works a war on guns can work, until that happens it's just a pipe dream.

[Melchiah]

Beckwin and I will both agree that assault weapons have no place outside of a military facility or a war zone. I do not require an AR-15 or an M-16 to ensure my personal safety. My 9mm semi-auto will do the job just fine.

Maybe you oughta read the actual CONTENT of the old Federal AWB law. Because they do have a clause for pistols as well. So if you think your pistol is safe, think again.

Are you done completely missing the point of what I wrote? Are you?

My Ruger cannot be made into a fully automatic weapon with a 10 dollar mail order kit.

Please stop making up bullshit. 10 dollars? The last DIAS I saw that was fully legal and registered NFA item went for a few thousand dollars.

Read: Fully legal and registered. We aren't talking about people who obey the law. Get with the program before you start your verbal diarrhea.

My Ruger also has a maximum capacity of 17 rounds, not 30 or 50.

Your pistol has fixed magazine? No? Then your max cap is totally dependent on an externally dettachable magazine's capacity. Glocks have 30 rnd magazines available and so do a number of other pistols.

I don't own a Glock. l2read, and then try to know what you are talking about. What I said was, hold on, incoming bolded caps: MY RUGER. My Ruger is a model that was just released a couple of months back, it's still being reviewed by Guns and Ammo Magazine. I can't even buy match grade components for it yet, and I sure as hell can't buy a 30 round magazine, you ignorant fuck. In fact, here is a link to Ruger's accessories catalog. Find a 30 round magazine made by Ruger PERIOD for this weapon:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...r/DSC00353.jpg

No? Didn't think so. Shut your ass.

If you were a real sportsman, you wouldn't be chasing his ass through the brambles with a semi-auto rifle with a bottomless mag in it... that isn't sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is tracking the animal, picking your post, picking your shot with a bolt action rifle such that you only get one shot. If you miss, tough titties, come back tomorrow. ARs to hunt with is ludicrous and unsportsmanlike. At least in my opinion.

Is it ok if i hunt with a Ruger Mini-14?

I don't give two damns what you hunt with. The Ruger mini-14 is a scaled down version of the M-14 with a 20 round magazine. To me, sportsmanship is not chasing a deer through the woods with a high capacity semi-automatic rifle. You can call it whatever you wish, I'm still going to snicker to myself when I see some clown hunting with an assault rifle. Bolt or lever action makes you a sportsman, like I said, in my opinion.

Now, Infiltrator. Get the fuck off my dick. You don't know two grains what you are talking about before you open your dicksucker. So kindly remove whatever sandpaper-covered cock that crawled up your ass and place it between the lips of your overactive dicksucker.

Edit: spelling and tags

[BIGSTIC]

So Americans like killing eachother? Is that anything new? We are the "Melting Pot" of the world and we wonder why we have more crimes compared to countries were 90% of the people are the same race, religion and been living with eachother for 200+ years. Honestly I am not really surprised. Mabey I am wrong to look at it that way.

Official Department of Justice statistics show that black people committed 52.2% of murders for the year 2005 (the most recent statistics available at this time) despite being only 12.1% of the population. Whites (which under US law, includes Latinos), who represent 74.7% of Americans, committed 45.8% of murders.

If we assume a population of 300 million in America for 2005, that means that there were approximately 36.6 million blacks and 224.1 million whites that year.

The total murders by all races in 2005 was 17,029. 52.2% of those were committed by blacks, or 8,889 murders. 45.8% were committed by whites and Latinos, or 7,799 murders.

What this means is that the rate of murder (talking about offenders here, not victims) among all blacks in America is 8,889 in 36.6 million, or 24.7 murderers per 100,000 black people. The rate of murder among whites (including Latinos) is 7,799 per 224.1 million, which equates with 3.38 per 100,000.

The nubers dont lie. Disarm the blacks so we can be more like Europe. I hope you know I am being sarcastic

[BIGSTIC]

I don't own a Glock. l2read, and then try to know what you are talking about. What I said was, hold on, incoming bolded caps: MY RUGER. My Ruger is a model that was just released a couple of months back, it's still being reviewed by Guns and Ammo Magazine. I can't even buy match grade components for it yet, and I sure as hell can't buy a 30 round magazine, you ignorant fuck. In fact, here is a link to Ruger's accessories catalog. Find a 30 round magazine made by Ruger PERIOD for this weapon:

Not trying to be an ass but here you can buy a 17 round clip for your gun for $30 and here you can find 30 round clips for other Rugers. Give it a year and you will find a 30 round clip for your pistol. Like you said its new. And I hear it is a nice pistol. Been following a guy that already has 1000 rounds threw his. Ruger makes a high quality pistol.

[Melchiah]

My SR9 came new in the box with two 17 round magazines. Ruger does not manufacture 30 round capacity magazines for their pistols, at least if they do they are not advertised on Ruger's webspace.

In any event, I am not putting a 30 round magazine, first party or not in my pistol.

I will confess however, that my father owns an M-1 Carbine, circa WWI. He shoots it at the range occasionally, and my feelings about civilian owned assault weapons aside, that weapon is part of history, and furthermore it's .30 caliber round has minimal knock down power. Owning a historical weapon is one thing, but when I go into SE Guns and I see Arma-Lites and reproduction M-16s hanging off the walls, I question the need to own such a thing. I personally don't believe it has a place in civilian hands. Also, you aren't going to knock a deer down with a round from an M-1 Carbine either, the round doesn't have the size or muzzle velocity.

[Nibe]

A

[Melchiah]

Oh, and btw I'm 100% against the Patriot Act. It's a horrible breach of freedoms with "National Security" as its tagline.

I completely agree with this statement. Stop voting for Ultra-conservative neo-cons. Those people are fucking looney.

[BIGSTIC]

Owning a historical weapon is one thing, but when I go into SE Guns and I see Arma-Lites and reproduction M-16s hanging off the walls, I question the need to own such a thing.

I question the NEED for a Private Airplane. I question the NEED for a car that goes 200mph. I question the NEED for a Million Dollar houses.

People have the money to blow so why not blow it. America is the land of Excess and we love to flaunt it. The REPRODUCTION models are no worse than any semi auto hunting rifle out there. So yeah you may never hunt with one but people do and they are effective. I stand more on the recreation side of firearms. My firearms are my hobby and therefore the only real purpose for alot of my fireamrs are for my entertainment. Some of my firearms have historical referances but most I have baught are sheerly for fun. Last week my dad asked me to catalog my toys. He combined them with his, my brother-in-laws, and my grandpas and today we took out an insurance policy strictly for our toys(firearms) combined. The adjuster wrote the policy for $500k for the whole lot. Yeah my family really likes toys :D :D

[Ryushii]

Oh, and btw I'm 100% against the Patriot Act. It's a horrible breach of freedoms with "National Security" as its tagline.

I completely agree with this statement. Stop voting for Ultra-conservative neo-cons. Those people are fucking looney.

Disagree completely with both these statements. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls to check and see if I'm a terrorist, have at it. What's the worst that could happen? Omg, they heard my personal conversations! Wait a second, they don't care what the hell is going on in my life unless I plan on terrorizing the US... Breach of privacy my ass.

[Nibe]

A

[Melchiah]

Oh, and btw I'm 100% against the Patriot Act. It's a horrible breach of freedoms with "National Security" as its tagline.

I completely agree with this statement. Stop voting for Ultra-conservative neo-cons. Those people are fucking looney.

Disagree completely with both these statements. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls to check and see if I'm a terrorist, have at it. What's the worst that could happen? Omg, they heard my personal conversations! Wait a second, they don't care what the hell is going on in my life unless I plan on terrorizing the US... Breach of privacy my ass.

You forgot about the part of the Patriot Act that enables you to be arrested and denied due process indefinitely under suspicion of terrorism.

[Melchiah]

I need Bancat to sign as my third character reference for my CCW permit ; ;

[Ryushii]

Oh, and btw I'm 100% against the Patriot Act. It's a horrible breach of freedoms with "National Security" as its tagline.

I completely agree with this statement. Stop voting for Ultra-conservative neo-cons. Those people are fucking looney.

Disagree completely with both these statements. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls to check and see if I'm a terrorist, have at it. What's the worst that could happen? Omg, they heard my personal conversations! Wait a second, they don't care what the hell is going on in my life unless I plan on terrorizing the US... Breach of privacy my ass.

You forgot about the part of the Patriot Act that enables you to be arrested and denied due process indefinitely under suspicion of terrorism.

I will have to look that up, but I believe most such clauses were amended in the years following its passage. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I still see no problem with the ability of the government to wiretap suspects without a warrant, especially considering the difficulty in obtaining one. I hate that our government uses the evidence gathering system that prevents illegally obtained evidence from being used in cases. I would prefer if we used the system where officers are only punished if evidence is obtained illegally on a suspect that is ruled not guilty. Freedoms are important, but not at the expense of the ability of our law enforcers to detect criminals.

[Demosthenes11]

Oh, and btw I'm 100% against the Patriot Act. It's a horrible breach of freedoms with "National Security" as its tagline.

I completely agree with this statement. Stop voting for Ultra-conservative neo-cons. Those people are fucking looney.

Disagree completely with both these statements. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls to check and see if I'm a terrorist, have at it. What's the worst that could happen? Omg, they heard my personal conversations! Wait a second, they don't care what the hell is going on in my life unless I plan on terrorizing the US... Breach of privacy my ass.

You forgot about the part of the Patriot Act that enables you to be arrested and denied due process indefinitely under suspicion of terrorism.

I will have to look that up, but I believe most such clauses were amended in the years following its passage. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I still see no problem with the ability of the government to wiretap suspects without a warrant, especially considering the difficulty in obtaining one. I hate that our government uses the evidence gathering system that prevents illegally obtained evidence from being used in cases. I would prefer if we used the system where officers are only punished if evidence is obtained illegally on a suspect that is ruled not guilty. Freedoms are important, but not at the expense of the ability of our law enforcers to detect criminals.

please please tell me you aren't dumb enough to believe anything of what you said and that you are intelligent enough to have the foresight of the consequences of the patriot act

[*Shinzon*]

I will have to look that up, but I believe most such clauses were amended in the years following its passage. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I still see no problem with the ability of the government to wiretap suspects without a warrant, especially considering the difficulty in obtaining one. I hate that our government uses the evidence gathering system that prevents illegally obtained evidence from being used in cases. I would prefer if we used the system where officers are only punished if evidence is obtained illegally on a suspect that is ruled not guilty. Freedoms are important, but not at the expense of the ability of our law enforcers to detect criminals.

Not that I'm for or against any of that, but tell that to the CIA. Bush is pretty much at war with the CIA and they're doing what they want as far as suspecting people and torturing those who they feel necessary. So if you believe laws are governing those agencies you'll be sadly mistaken.

Was actually a few articles in the NY times about it a few months back.