Adder Jambiya/Blau

[dawdr]

lol, bird camps... i got 8/8 marksmanship merits and i cant land bolts without sushi there. I really dont care for Birds... I like meriting off mamools. And with double mineut there, my normal hits are about 40-50 with crits @ 70-80 (havnt merited in awhile, your right about my previous post being wrong). But thats still not that much more DMG on criticals of 70-80 dmg, and wouldnt the extra DMG on perseus's also proc on criticals? not just normal.

Trying to land acid bolts in most ToAU camps is largely fruitless anyway, since the main camps are wind-based. Give me my Fire Bomblet, Bomb Core, and Darts any day.

What do you mean "proc?" You don't randomly get higher base damage, it's just there. You're ignoring damage over time by just looking at the numbers on screen, though. Damage per second wise, X's Knife is a 10.15 and Perseus's Harpe is 10.57. For further comparison, Sirocco Kukri is 10.4 and Blau Dolch with latent active is 11.12. This is just their damage and delay taken into account, though.

Blau Dolch is a monster, because it's got a very high damage for its delay on top of the accuracy and attack it provides, not just to itself but to both hands. Sirocco Kukri is stupidly fast with decent damage on top of having the wind damage bonus, which is why it works amazingly well for an offhand weapon. X's Knife is the lowest of these four just based on damage per second, but the critical hit bonus actually IS a big deal, because it's a 10% bonus to your damage when you critical hit, and that should be at least 12% of the time at any merit camp, and again this applies to both hands. Perseus's Harpe has nothing but its base damage per second in this respect. X's Knife and Blau Dolch will win over Perseus's Harpe every time in terms of damage over time, with Sirocco Kukri's position varying depending on the mob's elemental resistances.

In the end, all that Perseus's Harpe has is higher peak damage on solo Dancing Edge. If you're stacking Dancing Edge then any advantage over X's Knife is non-existent. Both Shark Bite and Evisceration heavily favor X's Knife whenever they're used, because Shark Bite is a heavy hit that is always stacked and Evisceration is a critical weapon skill.

[Chupunpupun]

I'd just like to add that X's Knife is seriously broken. THF in my LS got it awhile go and it really made him an awesome DD THF. He was dropping 1k+ each WS on fafnir and kirin.

You have to see X's Knife in action to really comprehend how good it is.

[sakurato]

I'd just like to add that X's Knife is seriously broken. THF in my LS got it awhile go and it really made him an awesome DD THF. He was dropping 1k+ each WS on fafnir and kirin.

You have to see X's Knife in action to really comprehend how good it is.

mucho buffs? how come everyone but me gets buffs at fafhogg -_-;

plus every ws doing 1k+ is really amazing o.o

[Chupunpupun]

I'd just like to add that X's Knife is seriously broken. THF in my LS got it awhile go and it really made him an awesome DD THF. He was dropping 1k+ each WS on fafnir and kirin.

You have to see X's Knife in action to really comprehend how good it is.

mucho buffs? how come everyone but me gets buffs at fafhogg -_-;

plus every ws doing 1k+ is really amazing o.o

On kirin, yes. But on Fafnir, we rarely have brd in the melee PT. THF/NIN, x's/blau, using evisceration.

[sakurato]

holy moly. do you mind listing his gears? i'm am truly impressed. i don't think i could avg anything close to 1k evis on faf especially with /nin and no buffs.

[Chupunpupun]

holy moly. do you mind listing his gears? i'm am truly impressed. i don't think i could avg anything close to 1k evis on faf especially with /nin and no buffs.

I can't list his gears cause he threw a fit and left LS and I haven't seen him logged on for awhile. But I can tell you he has everything a THF would want cept relic. He's one of those THF that refuses to use TH Knife and our other THF hates him for it.

[sakurato]

booo i want to know what he was using to break 1k every WS

[QuePsiXI]

Surprised they /Nin, but I'd assume you guys count on the others to claim, or let him steal/mug.

Seeing as he does 1K and I don't, I won't say "ur a nub, /War only." But...would you mind requesting him/her to /War and see what that does?

[sakurato]

Surprised they /Nin, but I'd assume you guys count on the others to claim, or let him steal/mug.

Seeing as he does 1K and I don't, I won't say "ur a nub, /War only." But...would you mind requesting him/her to /War and see what that does?

i have a super hard time breaking 1k w/o buffs ; ; need to know how he can do it so consistently!!

[Lordwafik]

It is clear to me Sakura, that somone is using their rectum on behalf of their mouth.

[sakurato]

omg waffles, did ashi tell you i finally got my first salvage piece? just got pants!! they are soooo gooooood

[Lordwafik]

slowkurato 8)

[Delenn]

Summary:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if one's parsed critical hit damage exceeds 20.5% of their total damage, X's Knife (X) & Blau Dolch (BD) performs better than Perseus's Harpe (PH) & BD. Since my critical damage usually makes up ~30-35% of my total damage, X&BD would be significantly better for me.

Details:

Aside: I'm using PH&BD instead of Adder Jambiya +1 (AJ+1) & BD since PH&BD has a higher DPS. If X&BD outperforms PH&BD, it should also outperform AJ+1&BD.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but there seems to be some basics that I hope people realize:

• The percentage of damage dealt by critical hits is higher than the percentage of critical hits landed, since a critical hit tends to deal more damage than a non-critical hit. This is why having a critical hit percentage of ~17% for a thief can yield ~33% total damage from critical hits. X's Knife increases the total critical hit damage, which increases overall damage in the previous statement by ~3.3%.[/*:m:1k8l8pew]
• Pairing any dagger save Mandau/Batardeau with BD drags BD's damage per second (DPS) down due to BD's incredible latent DPS of 11.12. If BD wasn't rare, most people would dual-wield them, enjoy a 80% delay reduction with Suppanomimi (ie. a 25% DPS increase) and call it a day.[/*:m:1k8l8pew]
• To extend the previous point, lower delay daggers with less DPS than BD drag BD down less than one with a higher delay and the exact same DPS. This is due to weighting which is directly proportional to delay.
  
  Here's a simple exaggerated example.
  

  Let:
  weapon_a: dmg(100) dly_sec(1) = dps(100/1 = 100)
  weapon_b: dmg(20) dly_sec(2) = dps(20/2 = 10)
  weapon_c: dmg(10) dly_sec(1) = dps(10/1 = 10)
  weapon_a&b: dmg(100+20) dly_sec(1+2) = dps(120/3 = 40)
  weapon_a&c: dmg(100+10) dly_sec(1+1) = dps(110/2 = 55)

  This shows that even though weapons B and C have the same DPS, pairing A&C yields a higher DPS than A&B.[/*:m:1k8l8pew]

I wrote a perl script a long time ago to assist in number crunching. For now, let's just focus on the melee_dps output from the following:

ffxi_dagger_math.pl
dps(13.30) weapon_name(mandau)
dps(11.70) weapon_name(batardeau)
dps(11.12) weapon_name(blau dolch with latent)
dps(10.57) weapon_name(perseus's harpe)
dps(10.52) weapon_name(adder jambiya +1)
dps(10.40) weapon_name(sirocco kukri)
dps(10.15) weapon_name(x's knife)

case_name(aj+1_bd)
  weapons(adder jambiya +1, blau dolch with latent)
  delay_coefficient(0.80) store_tp(  6)
  melee_dps(13.508)
      tp_per_hit:  pre_store_tp: actual( 4.7) raw( 4.74000)
      tp_per_hit: post_store_tp: actual( 4.9) raw( 4.98200)
  tp_100_num_hit: actual(21.0) raw(20.40816)
      tp_100_sec: actual( 52.08 sec)

case_name(bd_sirocco)
  weapons(blau dolch with latent, sirocco kukri)
  delay_coefficient(0.80) store_tp(  6)
  melee_dps(13.491)
      tp_per_hit:  pre_store_tp: actual( 4.5) raw( 4.59333)
      tp_per_hit: post_store_tp: actual( 4.7) raw( 4.77000)
  tp_100_num_hit: actual(22.0) raw(21.27660)
      tp_100_sec: actual( 48.11 sec)

case_name(ph_bd)
  weapons(perseus's harpe, blau dolch with latent)
  delay_coefficient(0.80) store_tp(  6)
  melee_dps(13.531)
      tp_per_hit:  pre_store_tp: actual( 4.7) raw( 4.79333)
      tp_per_hit: post_store_tp: actual( 4.9) raw( 4.98200)
  tp_100_num_hit: actual(21.0) raw(20.40816)
      tp_100_sec: actual( 54.32 sec)

case_name(x_bd)
  weapons(x's knife, blau dolch with latent)
  delay_coefficient(0.80) store_tp(  6)
  melee_dps(13.259)
      tp_per_hit:  pre_store_tp: actual( 4.7) raw( 4.76333)
      tp_per_hit: post_store_tp: actual( 4.9) raw( 4.98200)
  tp_100_num_hit: actual(21.0) raw(20.40816)
      tp_100_sec: actual( 53.06 sec)

This shows that PH&BD has a higher straight DPS than AJ+1&BD. Furthermore, PH&BD has a (13.531-13.259)/13.259 = 2.05% DPS gain over X&BD. However, X&BD boosts all critical damage by 10%. Therefore, if critical damage exceeds 0.0205/0.1 = 20.5% of one's total damage, X&BD's overall damage will exceed PH&BD. Usually ~30-35% of my thief's overall damage comes from critical hits. Therefore in my case, X&BD would be significantly better than PH&BD.

Hope that helps,



Extra Notes

• I attributed an overall 2.05% damage boost to PH&BD, but this is likely very generous. Base weapon damage, especially for daggers, is usually a small contributor to WS damage, which takes into account fStr, WSC, etc. Base weapon damage is also a very small contributor to sneak attack and trick attack damage. As a caveat, PH has a slightly higher fStr cap than X due to 1 more weapon rank.[/*:m:1k8l8pew]
• The above analysis also doesn't take critical hit weapon skills into account, like those stacked with sneak attack or trick attack & assassin. Adding that would further benefit X+BD by allowing it to boost the weapon skill component of total damage.[/*:m:1k8l8pew]
• For the curious, tp_100_sec is the time it takes to get 100% tp with perfect accuracy, 0 haste, 0 double attack, 0 triple attack, etc. Hence the time stated is significantly higher than what is actually experienced during good merit parties.[/*:m:1k8l8pew]

[dawdr]

Hurrah, numbers and stuff. Thanks a lot for going through all that, much better than my babbling.