Kirin finally killed by Milkman

[LD]

Well played.

Page'd in the name of insubstantiality.

[Talint]

I read the article then re-read the article, and I can assure you that Milkman does not need to brush up on anything.

I've written for 1up dozens of times and, regardless of whether or not that's true, I can say with great confidence that Milkman is one of the finest journalists I've seen. Never have I encountered a writer so bold, never have I read articles so engaging, never have I witnessed a troll so spectacular that he boldy incites the entire FFXI endgame community against him.

His work is just splendid and I wouldn't change a thing.

10/10

Well met.

[Kimiko]

As someone who writes a blog, I can understand how he is entitled to his opinion, especially on his own blog. If he wants to get excited about Kirin that's definitely his choice - and if he's lucky enough to have a bunch of readers read what he writes due to his position that's good for him.

That being said, he has an obvious bias against endgame that is really easy to see. I think this is detrimental to the game in general when someone claims to know a great deal about endgame when he has not experienced it and blames it ALL on botting, when botting is really only an issue at maybe 4 endgame mobs - KB, Fafhogg, Aspi, and KA. Here are some direct quotes which I think shows my point...

...but I do want things like a Ridill and an Algol one of these days.

If he claims he's on a server where people bot Cerberus for that Algol, or even vigorously camp Cerberus before it pops, I'd love to know what server this is. Any LS with the drive and numbers can find and get Cerberus. If you want to make the case for botting ruining certain NMs, that's fine, but not Cerberus. If he can't get an Algol, that's on his LS not being at the point of being able to do it (or has no interest).

[quote:3vr4g5wp]I mean, we're not going to be taking down Absolute Virtue any time soon, but we can do just about everything else.

This one is a slightly nit picky but if you just killed Kirin and said something to the effect of I'm so glad we are now able to do this kind of stuff now, my sense is that you have not experienced or know the inherent difficulties of higher end HNMs. This is not a knock on your LS - we all got to start somewhere and we were all once at the point where Kirin was a huge deal; but I think it's inaccurate and misleading to pass it off like you can kill everything in the game other than AV now. Things like Vrtra, Tiamat, Khim, etc. are completely different strategy-wise and a whole new experience. I'm not saying his LS cannot do these because they suck, just that it's misleading to act like you can when you haven't tried anything near the calibur of NM.

Yes, I know you can TP burn Kirin if you have a whole pile of DRK/NINs with axes and Kraken Clubs, but I think we did pretty good on our first crack at Kirin, with only 14 people taking part in the battle.

Props on killing Kirin with 14. I know you can go lower and all that but that's really good for a newer group to Kirin. The DRK/NIN comment is really off though. I think it speaks to some of his bias and lack of actual endgame experience though, since the idea that DRK/NIN KC massing is the only way to wreck half the things in the game is a common misconception people who don't actually experience endgame ganks think.

I guess the key thing to realize is who he is writing to as his target audience. He's not writing for long time endgamers like the people typically seen on BG - he's writing probably to more casual players. I personally don't think he's an idiot and his LS doesn't suck, but that doesn't make him really accurate or really qualified to talk about all endgame either - he's basically talking about stuff he has very little or no experience with when he speaks of endgame. Still if people read it, then props to him and he doesn't have to change anything as long as people keep reading.[/quote:3vr4g5wp]

Well, to give you a bit more perspective. CloakAndDagger was for the longest time a social linkshell who's only real claim to fame was a good limbus team. Beyond that, most everyone in the shell had little to no HNM experience (myself being an exception, but I hadn't been HNM'ing for years to that point). Since then we've grown the shell to include a few HNM veterans such as Pippy, one of the original leaders of Fortuna, along with several others. Right now we're a good group thats making the strides needed to get to a point where we can do more and more stuff. C&D has been doing sky now for a while, we've recently started doing sea on a regular basis (just took down Jailer of Fortitude with around 10 people recently), and we've also started adding events like Salvage & a low-man Dynamis into the mix on occasion. The skill and potential is there, no doubts about it, it's a simple matter of practical experience and time now.

edit: I'm going to bed... I expect page 10 by afternoon.

[Vail]

If he claims he's on a server where people bot Cerberus for that Algol, or even vigorously camp Cerberus before it pops, I'd love to know what server this is.

Server is Siren: 3-5 linkshells have active cerberus mules, that camp him from open of his window until he pops. Linkshells often claim on low number and assemble within minutes, so unless a "casual" linkshell is willing to camp it for it's full window. Siren would be pretty hard to get a cerberus.

2-3 of those linkshells if they feel threatened another LS will camp it, they'll go out and camp it themselves, if cerb is pushing the last 2-3 hours of his window, usually full hold parties or even a full ally from 2-3 linkshells will be out there.

I was apart of one of those linkshells for about a year. and I've put in my time on cerberus, it's highly contested on Siren to say the least. The linkshell I was in (the one that got the most claims on cerb during my time in) is over maxed on algols and often sells them. Price range completely varies, they'll mostly try to extort the price as high as possible (including a 6million sell about 6 months ago) down to about 1mil + a noble's tunic.

yeah Siren is pretty ass-backwards in all honestly and behind the times in endgame mostly speaking.

Edit:

As a person who's meet milkman in real life, I hope milkman is reading this: and anyone else in cloak and dagger should follow this advice: do not give pippy your account info, and if you have please change your password now.

When pippy went apeshit over not being allowed to lot a hauteclaire he immedately went berserk and attempted to steal 4 accounts of members in fortuna that trusted him their accounts to him.

He might seem all nice, leading you guys and doing so much for you all (more along the lines doing stuff that'll get him what he wants) but that's his act, this is like what: the 5th linkshell he's been apart of that he's done this kinda shady to outright outrageous things while being a member/leader ?

As for those 4 accounts that Pippy attempted to take: he succeed in taking 1, the one that held the linkshells dynamis currency. Now he later gave this account back to the owner, but only after "buying a new separate account" to transfer all the currency to so that it remained in his possession. Later he "promised" to return that currency to get on good terms but then was unable to even log on this "new separate account" because he forgot the password.

Some people might believe a story like that, but most people who've dealt with questionable/shady people should be able to notice the huge warning signs in this story.

But as I said: anyone in cloak and dagger who's given pippy their info, please change your password: for your own sake. And for your linkshells sake, do not trust any excessive amount of linkshell items or trigger items to him. If you all wanna take him into your linkshell that's your call, and I won't completely look down on that choice. Just make sure your watching yourselves and your linkshells assets.

[Fated]

The only thing that made me angry was that people were all excited that they got money drops from Kirin... give me a break, you fight the thing for W Legs.

[Anza]

its similar to that on bismarck but not quite as bad

[Vail]

P.S. :
sup TG people coming to read about how shitty siren is :D

[Kaeko]

If he claims he's on a server where people bot Cerberus for that Algol, or even vigorously camp Cerberus before it pops, I'd love to know what server this is.

Server is Siren: 3-5 linkshells have active cerberus mules, that camp him from open of his window until he pops. Linkshells often claim on low number and assemble within minutes, so unless a "casual" linkshell is willing to camp it for it's full window. Siren would be pretty hard to get a cerberus.

2-3 of those linkshells if they feel threatened another LS will camp it, they'll go out and camp it themselves, if cerb is pushing the last 2-3 hours of his window, usually full hold parties or even a full ally from 2-3 linkshells will be out there.

I know it can get bad but to have an even valid claim that botting is an issue (like the guy does on his blog saying he cannot get Algol due to bots), people would have to constantly be out there claiming it before it even goes yellow (the ultra fun "popped purple"). Anything less than that is still lame, but not something you can blame on bots - maybe overcamping. My point wasn't that people don't still actively camp Cerb on some servers, it was just that I don't think Cerb is a very widely contested mob to the point where botting is a possible issue.

[Vail]

I know it can get bad but to have an even valid claim that botting is an issue (like the guy does on his blog saying he cannot get Algol due to bots)

sorry I forgot to add: if a holding party is camping or a full ally (especially during the last 2-3 hours of the window) they 99% chance it's being botted, atleast from the testimonials from my former linkshell mates. And to add everything for cerb on siren is also true for Khimaira most of the time.

Hydra ofcourse is left alone

[Mojo]

If he claims he's on a server where people bot Cerberus for that Algol, or even vigorously camp Cerberus before it pops, I'd love to know what server this is.

Server is Siren: 3-5 linkshells have active cerberus mules, that camp him from open of his window until he pops. Linkshells often claim on low number and assemble within minutes, so unless a "casual" linkshell is willing to camp it for it's full window. Siren would be pretty hard to get a cerberus.

2-3 of those linkshells if they feel threatened another LS will camp it, they'll go out and camp it themselves, if cerb is pushing the last 2-3 hours of his window, usually full hold parties or even a full ally from 2-3 linkshells will be out there.

I know it can get bad but to have an even valid claim that botting is an issue (like the guy does on his blog saying he cannot get Algol due to bots), people would have to constantly be out there claiming it before it even goes yellow (the ultra fun "popped purple"). Anything less than that is still lame, but not something you can blame on bots - maybe overcamping. My point wasn't that people don't still actively camp Cerb on some servers, it was just that I don't think Cerb is a very widely contested mob to the point where botting is a possible issue.

This happens on Hades for Tiamat, Khim, and Cerberus for most of the pops.

[ronin sparthos]

Frankly, I'm not surprised by, well, anything and whatever you say about Milkman, the fact is he needs to brush up on the game before he writes another entry.

I read the article then re-read the article, and I can assure you that Milkman does not need to brush up on anything.

I've written for 1up dozens of times and, regardless of whether or not that's true, I can say with great confidence that Milkman is one of the finest journalists I've seen. Never have I encountered a writer so bold, never have I read articles so engaging, never have I witnessed a troll so spectacular that he boldy incites the entire FFXI endgame community against him.

His work is just splendid and I wouldn't change a thing.

10/10

Its his personal blog and it is his right to do whatever he wants with it... but the fact still stands that his opinion determines if people play this and many other games he writes about. Peddling 4 year old content as 'whats new and happening' is a good way for people to say 'yeah fuck this, im getting WoW'.

What i wanna know is why no one stopped this guy, why no one said 'Milk, this is a poor topic to blog on... maybe you should write on a more recent aspect of the game.' He may not play fulltime like many hardcore players but cmon.... no one could put the breaks on this guy and say 'i have a better idea on what you should blog on, something more 2008'?

Why none of the linkshell members stepped up and said this is baffling. You guys know that he has quite a venue to gamers and let him write on a 3-4year old HNM? Thats the best advertising for FFXI everyone could muster up? Thats what this boils down to: advertising.

He could have blogged about shit like Hydra, Sandworm, Campaign, Salvage or something within the last year and a half and teased the collective masses that read his blog and may be on the fence about buying the game. (If you never played FFXI, you've seen a Sandworm in another FF - recognition.) Instead it all watered down to a dated manticore that no one cares about anymore and will likely just help sell more copies of WoW.

[Eurlzoo]

http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...ilm/mini/8.jpg
http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...ilm/mini/7.jpg
http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...ilm/mini/9.jpg
http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...lm/mini/10.jpg

[Raineer]

http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...ilm/mini/8.jpg
http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...ilm/mini/7.jpg
http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...ilm/mini/9.jpg
http://www.retourverslefutur.net/del...lm/mini/10.jpg

Wow.

[Shuemue]

Kimiko, grats. Nobody has lost my respect faster than you in a very long time. Give Pippy your password.

[Isiolia]

Its his personal blog and it is his right to do whatever he wants with it... but the fact still stands that his opinion determines if people play this and many other games he writes about. Peddling 4 year old content as 'whats new and happening' is a good way for people to say 'yeah fuck this, im getting WoW'.

What i wanna know is why no one stopped this guy, why no one said 'Milk, this is a poor topic to blog on... maybe you should write on a more recent aspect of the game.' He may not play fulltime like many hardcore players but cmon.... no one could put the breaks on this guy and say 'i have a better idea on what you should blog on, something more 2008'?

Why none of the linkshell members stepped up and said this is baffling. You guys know that he has quite a venue to gamers and let him write on a 3-4year old HNM? Thats the best advertising for FFXI everyone could muster up? Thats what this boils down to: advertising.

He could have blogged about shit like Hydra, Sandworm, Campaign, Salvage or something within the last year and a half and teased the collective masses that read his blog and may be on the fence about buying the game. (If you never played FFXI, you've seen a Sandworm in another FF - recognition.) Instead it all watered down to a dated manticore that no one cares about anymore and will likely just help sell more copies of WoW.

Seems to me he's blogging about his own personal FFXI experience. It's his first time killing Kirin as part of his regular LS.
People blog about what they're doing, not necessarily what's newest in the game. As an advertisement it's still fine. It shows that he's got a community of people he's doing things with. It shows content, which someone who isn't familiar with FFXI wouldn't know the difference between. 'sides, 4 year old content is still pretty big in FFXI. Sky, kings, and Dynamis...

Why would Hydra or Sandworm make a good advertisement anyway? "We killed mobs nobody bothers with because they drop nothing/nothing people care about, wonder what SE was thinking".

The best advertisement for FFXI is showing that it's still going, and people are still having fun. Seems to me that his blog conveys that.

[Vedder]

Hahah... someone made the comment about him having Homam Corazza already but doing their first Kirin. >.> My LS killed 5-6 Omegas before we ever did Kirin, mainly cause it's easier and less time consuming.

I think what gets me is the embellishment and detail given to his write-up of a Kirin kill. I mean, I have a never read LJ and when we killed Kirin for the first time it was like, "We killed Kirin, it was fun, this is what dropped."

LOL at giving the play-by-play for a mob that's been killed about a zillion times.

[Raineer]

The best advertisement for FFXI is showing that it's still going, and people are still having fun. Seems to me that his blog conveys that.

I agree with you, certainly the best way to advertise the game is to make blog posts like "what I really want is a Ridill and Algol but the assholes who camp and bot in Dragon's Aery make that impossible".

I seriously wonder if people who defend him even read his blogs OR read the thread here. Let me give this thread a little refresher which it sorely needs.

We are NOT bashing Milkman for his slowness of progress. His LS is doing fine, and as Kimiko has posted in the thread has many other kills. While most of the longtime posters of BG forums may, in fact, be elitest assholes, we do understand there are linkshells which will be at all states of the game. These types of linkshells or posters will only be called out if they use such a public forum to talk down or call out others. This is not the first time for this kind of rhetoric to be used in his blogs, in fact it is a pervasive attitude which has always been present. This is the reason for some of the posts you see in this thread, not the killing of Kirin.

If I need to put it any clearer for some of you, let me know and I'll write it in crayon using my mad paint skillz.

[The Blackrose]

The best advertisement for FFXI is showing that it's still going, and people are still having fun. Seems to me that his blog conveys that.

However, when you intentionally target and attempt to piss off a portion of your potential reader base, you're not going to get a free pass.

This would be a non-story if Milkman didn't go out of his way to proactively slam something he has no clue about. Instead he sits up on stage and stammers off in a more retarded manner than Miss Teen South Carolina about his "endgame experience." That's like a certain LS telling me there's effort involved in claiming Vrtra or Jormy (which was followed by a swift /facepalm). So of course he's going to take a few hits from the community if he's bragging that he just now killed Kirin.

Just the thought of this takes me back to my Counter-Strike days, when the hosts of Counter-Strike Radio called rizzuh of Counter-Strike Nation a dejected fucktard. It ultimately resulting in years of potshots back and forth at each other until CSR was dismantled.

Although now that I really think of it, Milkman has quite the strategery behind his writing:

http://www.flipside-ls.com/Soneldar/20080115.jpg

[Max™]

"Drk/Nin's with Axe's and Kclubs"

Wow, that's what killed me the most.

The hardest part of TP burning Kirin is getting everyone past the porter, and finding 3 Brds + 10-12 Melee's with their 2hrs up/Slept TP.

[Kyreth]

Game has been out for what? 4 1/2 years, and this clown is JUST getting around to do a Kirin fight? lol Most of us here killed Kirin by mid 2004. He is doing the FFXI community a disservice by keep up this half assed blog. I mean a responsible person would you know, pass the buck so to speak to another editor if he is "too busy" to keep up a task. I mean, thats what any normal person with a full plate would do...

*shrugs* I dunno. I've been playing since the first month of FFXI.

Done some of the pop mobs (Faust, MG) but for one reason or another, never done even one of the Sky Gods. Then again, I'm not going to exactly call myself l33t HNMLS material, either...I'm a relatively casual player. But depsite it being "old content", you could walk through Whitegate, swing a stick and hit six people who barely know where Sky is, much less actually go there. I know, amazing right?

http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=299 ,though.

Edit add: Advertising one's endgame knowhow when Sky Gods are your latest win may not be a winning choice compared to the average BG poster, though.