18 versus 21

[Kuya]

Enjoy your ageism.

I don't think you've quite understood this issue from both sides of the fence here. You're so convinced you're right that somehow it's never going to be a problem where kids have legal access to alcohol.

Why stop at 18? Some states allow marriage as low as 13. If they can marry, why can't they drink? No matter what you're drawing an arbitrary line. The United States chose 21. Deal.

If I send my young relatives to a party I do so with the understanding that they are safe. If it becomes legal to serve them alcohol then I no longer have that understanding. I also have no recourse against the people who served the alcohol, leading to the unsafe conditions wrought by immaturity + alcohol.

Again, fuck 'young adults.' They're kids and their apparent fear of consequences comes out when they'd rather change the law than live in a world where repercussions can catch up with your actions. That's the opposite of having an adult outlook on life.

First circular logic, then a slippery slope argument, then you tell me that's the way things are and i need to clam up, and then you have the audacity to speak to me about maturity. I must be insane as i thought that fear of repercussion was something natural for all human beings, but thanks for making assumptions about my person.

Your fear of what might happen to your younger relatives is understandable, ignoring the fact that they probably already drown themselves in alcohol. But far be it for me to want something changed because i think it's not working and i find it arbitrary. No, it's obviously that i don't want to be punished for drinking alcohol at a certain age in the US (DUH). Clearly i should just accept being punished for something i don't agree with. Clearly, Correction, i'm so convinced i'm right, and you obviously aren't. And obviously i haven't taken into account the inmediate effects of legalizing alcohol for 18-19 year olds.

[archibaldcrane]

Correction - how old are you, do you drink, when did you start, and where do you live?

[Correction]

Correction - how old are you, do you drink, when did you start, and where do you live?

You taking a poll?

30
Yes
18
Los Angeles

Show me yours.

blah blah blah

Were you ever stopped from drinking?

Clearly i should just accept being punished for something i don't agree with.

You should accept being punished for breaking the law. If you don't agree with it, take up the cause and get the law changed. Until then you are still breaking the law. Don't expect me in your rallies. Welcome to the United States of America.

The last time a nonsense federal law was repealed to my memory was the interstate speed limit of 55.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... a9659c8b63

So you'll have to excuse the fuck out of me for fearing that any reduction in the legal drinking age hits too close to home and makes me think it'll lead to even more drinking at a younger age. There is no good reason for the line to be at 21 but I sure as hell don't see a better reason for it to be at 18, either.

[Neosutra]

I'm going to ask the obvious, but this is US specific, right?

The US has the drinking age at 21 for the same reason that our government thought that Prohibition was a good idea back in the 20s. We're a country of repressed lemmings led by an outdated bible-thumping set of laws.

Where in the bible does it say you have to be 21 to drink? Religion bashing getting old and boring.

Anyway, legal limit is 18 here, and I don't see why it shouldn't be like that worldwide. If you're legally an adult at 18 and can make your own decisions, you should be legally allowed to drink too.

Religion bashing never gets old and boring

But I think he was more refering to more fundamentalist views of "our body is a temple" and such philosophies that attempted to force prohobition upon the world over several centuries:

The main force for prohibition came from pietistic Protestants, who comprised majorities in the Republican party in the North, and the Democratic party in the South. Catholics and German-Americans were prohibition's main detractors; however, German-Americans were discredited by World War I, and their protests were ignored.

[archibaldcrane]

Correction - how old are you, do you drink, when did you start, and where do you live?

30
Yes
18
Los Angeles

Show me yours.

Same, just change 30 to 27. Anyway, if you found it such a good idea to drink at 18, breaking the law in the process, why do you still want that law in place? You were clearly in favor of 18-year olds drinking when you were 18. Why the change?

[Khamsin]

Correction - how old are you, do you drink, when did you start, and where do you live?

30
Yes
18
Los Angeles

Show me yours.

Same, just change 30 to 27. Anyway, if you found it such a good idea to drink at 18, breaking the law in the process, why do you still want that law in place? You were clearly in favor of 18-year olds drinking when you were 18. Why the change?

Because he's older and wiser, and he didn't know any better back then.

[Kuya]

Were you ever stopped from drinking?

Do you often ask redundant questions or did you miss the part where i said i wasn't and that my concern was that i would be in the future?

You should accept being punished for breaking the law. If you don't agree with it, take up the cause and get the law changed. Until then you are still breaking the law. Don't expect me in your rallies. Welcome to the United States of America.

And thus we reach the problem. I don't see how i'm going to change a law aimed at the people who reside in the US when i don't live in the US. The only thing i can do is share my dislike of the law, which i was doing. And i do believe i accepted the possiblity of being punished for breaking the law by publicaly sipping on my delicious wine in a pub. What kind of idiotique point are you trying to make by saying i should accept the punishment? Do i even have a choice or are you, once again, being redundant? Did you think i wasn't aware that it wasn't legal in the US? Please do explain to me what you even mean to say when you tell me i should accept the possible punishment i obviously can't avoid if it were to happen.

[Alleya]

Correction - how old are you, do you drink, when did you start, and where do you live?

30
Yes
18
Los Angeles

Show me yours.

Same, just change 30 to 27. Anyway, if you found it such a good idea to drink at 18, breaking the law in the process, why do you still want that law in place? You were clearly in favor of 18-year olds drinking when you were 18. Why the change?

Because he's older and wiser, and he didn't know any better back then.

Ding ding ding ding.

We have a winner.

Thus, 21.

[archibaldcrane]

If only there was a law that stopped him from his youthful indulgences.

Ohwai-

[Kuya]

Correction - how old are you, do you drink, when did you start, and where do you live?

30
Yes
18
Los Angeles

Show me yours.

Same, just change 30 to 27. Anyway, if you found it such a good idea to drink at 18, breaking the law in the process, why do you still want that law in place? You were clearly in favor of 18-year olds drinking when you were 18. Why the change?

Because he's older and wiser, and he didn't know any better back then.

Ding ding ding ding.

We have a winner.

Thus, 21.

Clearly that alcohol ruined his life. Excuse me while i go make really important sodomy laws.

[Beckwin]

seems like people are unnecessarily thinking the drinking age has anything to do with drunk driving laws.

that's the only major danger to others as a result of alcohol, generally speaking. otherwise it's just a potential to hurt yourself and possibly be more likely to start a fight, but that's hard to arbitrarily say that at 21 you can handle it opposed to 18. There are 50+ year old people that can't handle alcohol without hurting themselves or others, but drunk driving is illegal no matter what the age is.

[archibaldcrane]

seems like people are unnecessarily thinking the drinking age has anything to do with drunk driving laws.

If I recall correctly, the reason it was changed in the first place was to ostensibly cut down on drunk-driving deaths.

[Correction]

No, it's obviously that i don't want to be punished for drinking alcohol at a certain age in the US (DUH). Clearly i should just accept being punished for something i don't agree with. Clearly, Correction, i'm so convinced i'm right, and you obviously aren't. And obviously i haven't taken into account the inmediate effects of legalizing alcohol for 18-19 year olds.

This entire paragraph is a litany of sarcasm. You'll have to forgive me if I didn't pick up on the fact that you actually meant the italicized.

What are we arguing about, again? That you should have every right to drink in my country when you're here?

Turn 21 and we'll talk.

[Beckwin]

and now we just have situations where youth want to "maximize" their time with the illegal nectar of the gods and get really fucking loaded, which carries over to behind the wheel.

not to mention old fuckers get DUIs all the time. I can't find a national figure, but california's average DUI arrest age was 33 in 2001.

[MisterBob]

lol @ people saying you have a "right" to drink at 21 (or any age).

It's a privilege, not a right. The vast majority of the fucktards on this planet are honestly not responsible enough to drink at any age, let alone 21.

[Khamsin]

[quote=Kuya]

Correction - how old are you, do you drink, when did you start, and where do you live?

30
Yes
18
Los Angeles

Show me yours.

Same, just change 30 to 27. Anyway, if you found it such a good idea to drink at 18, breaking the law in the process, why do you still want that law in place? You were clearly in favor of 18-year olds drinking when you were 18. Why the change?

Because he's older and wiser, and he didn't know any better back then.

Ding ding ding ding.

We have a winner.

Thus, 21.

Clearly that alcohol ruined his life. Excuse me while i go make really important sodomy laws.[/quote:3uywf3c5]
Perhaps he was just more responsible than his peers.

But here's the catch:

A responsible 18-year-old may grow up to be politically active, and likely prefer the drinking age remain 21 because he's the responsible type.

A reckless 18-year-old may grow up to not give a fuck about politics and just sit at home drinking instead of lobbying or voting. If the reckless 18-year-old does become responsible enough later in life to get into politics, he'd vote for 21+ because his own experience proved to himself that some 18-year-olds are not responsible enough to handle it.

So in any case, you'll never have somebody in a position to lobby against the drinking age who would actually vote to lower the age.

[archibaldcrane]

Turn 21 and we'll talk.

Why does he have to wait til he's 21? You didn't.

Answer my question.

[Beckwin]

honestly I have a hard time believing that guys in their late 20's/early 30's can be this uptight about alcohol.

[Khamsin]

seems like people are unnecessarily thinking the drinking age has anything to do with drunk driving laws.

that's the only major danger to others as a result of alcohol, generally speaking. otherwise it's just a potential to hurt yourself and possibly be more likely to start a fight, but that's hard to arbitrarily say that at 21 you can handle it opposed to 18. There are 50+ year old people that can't handle alcohol without hurting themselves or others, but drunk driving is illegal no matter what the age is.

They are related. States that do not have a 21+ drinking age do not receive federal funding for transportation projects. Now, what's transportation funding have to do with the drinking age? I wonder...

[Correction]

Turn 21 and we'll talk.

Why does he have to wait til he's 21? You didn't.

Answer my question.

The answer to your question is that he doesn't. He can be 15 and drink and I can't do anything about it. I was 18 when I took my first drink and yeah it was against the law. I didn't care. I was 18 and invincible.

I'm now 30 and realize my 18 year-old self was something of a fucking retard and wrong about more than one thing he was sure about.

He has to be 21 to have the right to drink because that's the law.