Lowman Kirin - Feedback appreciated

[ringthree]

Just make sure your kite party is outstanding and it will be cake. A good kiter should be taking 0 damage.

Yes, a good kite party is the first step, but a lot of it is still dependent on when the adds come and how fast they go down. If you get two of them at once with only 13-14 people and no Shadowbinds, you're in big trouble.

Probably a good idea to over prepare. The only thing that can really screw you on kiting is an errant Sleepga, so bring Poison Pots.

Also, with low numbers accept the fact that sacing has to be prepared for, has a predetermined BRD and sac before you start. When sacing make sure people don't go stupid because if one person gets hate on a any of the mobs, and is near anyone else, it can turn into a chain reaction and rewipe the alliance.

One other thing, if you can make your tanks so they can't be one-shotted (Magic Damage -%, Magic Def Bonus, Aquilo's Staff and enough HP to take what is left of an unresisted Great Whirlwind) then you should stop Kirin as often as you can. The difference in damage that your melee can do when Kirin is held in one place versus chasing it around is huge. This will really speed your progress. With low-numbers you will keep this until after Astral Flow in all likelihood.

[ringthree]

Best advice I can offer is to pick the kiter for the Kirin team based on who you think is the best player, NOT job sets. You can kite it on any number of jobs - I've done it on BLM before even. Any job can kite it if they know what to do; likewise, any job can screw up royally if they don't know what to do.

I think that may be going a bit overboard, you aren't going to want a Taru BLM kiting as your first pick, even you Kaeko. ^.^ But when it is necessary people should be ready and able to pick up the slack. Any job can kite for some period of time as long as they are smart.

[Jaybar]

One other thing, if you can make your tanks so they can't be one-shotted (Magic Damage -%, Magic Def Bonus, Aquilo's Staff and enough HP to take what is left of an unresisted Great Whirlwind)

Would the tanks be better off with an Iron Ram Lance? I guess that's the next best item to wear for kiting?

[Suiram]

Best advice I can offer is to pick the kiter for the Kirin team based on who you think is the best player, NOT job sets. You can kite it on any number of jobs - I've done it on BLM before even. Any job can kite it if they know what to do; likewise, any job can screw up royally if they don't know what to do.

I think that may be going a bit overboard, you aren't going to want a Taru BLM kiting as your first pick, even you Kaeko. ^.^ But when it is necessary people should be ready and able to pick up the slack. Any job can kite for some period of time as long as they are smart.

When you're setting up Kirin kite team, you don't want the "any job can kite for some period" as you would say of some random person who has hate if a tank dies after Astral Flow. You want the person you can trust the most to kite without incident for the duration of time it takes everyone else to kill the summons, and that's not going to be just anyone. You might have more than one person who meets this criterion, in which case you would likely want the one that is least useful killing the summons. Now for us (while we don't "low man" Kirin, but usually are on the lower end of "normal man" Kirin, 17~20 people), but often have 1 or 2 proper tanks and a number of BLMs, so it's easier to spare a BLM than it is to spare a tank for kiting. A taru BLM should be treated the same as any other job, since as I said above I kite Kirin on Hume BLM, and from my experience the only two moves that ever land are magic-based and usually resist (and wouldn't kill a Taru unresisted), and the only difference between me and a Taru BLM is going to be a few hundred HP.

[Shuemue]

If a taru BLM knew he were main kiter, there's a lot of +hp gear they could toss on. All the RSE has a bunch of it, then there's the usual BQ ring etc.

[Kaeko]

Best advice I can offer is to pick the kiter for the Kirin team based on who you think is the best player, NOT job sets. You can kite it on any number of jobs - I've done it on BLM before even. Any job can kite it if they know what to do; likewise, any job can screw up royally if they don't know what to do.

I think that may be going a bit overboard, you aren't going to want a Taru BLM kiting as your first pick, even you Kaeko. ^.^ But when it is necessary people should be ready and able to pick up the slack. Any job can kite for some period of time as long as they are smart.

When you're setting up Kirin kite team, you don't want the "any job can kite for some period" as you would say of some random person who has hate if a tank dies after Astral Flow. You want the person you can trust the most to kite without incident for the duration of time it takes everyone else to kill the summons, and that's not going to be just anyone. You might have more than one person who meets this criterion, in which case you would likely want the one that is least useful killing the summons. Now for us (while we don't "low man" Kirin, but usually are on the lower end of "normal man" Kirin, 17~20 people), but often have 1 or 2 proper tanks and a number of BLMs, so it's easier to spare a BLM than it is to spare a tank for kiting. A taru BLM should be treated the same as any other job, since as I said above I kite Kirin on Hume BLM, and from my experience the only two moves that ever land are magic-based and usually resist (and wouldn't kill a Taru unresisted), and the only difference between me and a Taru BLM is going to be a few hundred HP.

I was more gearing advice to prevent a situation where the OP picks someone solely based on his job and gear and doesn't think to throw in personal experience with that particular person. I wasn't advocating that the OP send in a BLM to kite Kirin, just that stressing job over personal experience is not a good idea.

Also, as Suiram says, BLMs are much easier to spare in a typical "low man" lineup. Setups are usually a couple of tanks, bare minimum support, a few melees maybe, and BLM DD. Of those 4, BLM is the one you'd want to spare, so it does make sense to have a BLM kite Kirin should something bad happen - this is the role I usually end up in if the kiter dies. I also happen to carry poison pots no matter what so it's easier to just make me backup since I have it ready for Sleepga.

The most dangerous part of kiting I've found is the claim delay when a summon comes out. It can take a few seconds before you can claim Byakko and get it off the kiter, and it can get some free swings in in that period.

[ahiyam]

The way our ls does it is simple we have done /w very minimal people to a ton of people lol

But baiscally have 1 pt "pop" kirin (tank pt) pld/nin, rdm, whm, brd, second tank either another pld/nin or a nin/war and can fill /w a smn or another mage.

all the rest of the members form an outisde ally rdy to be swapped into main ally. tank pt kites kirin while poping pets.
have a designated tank (not from main tank pt) voke the pet and either fight striaght up depending on # of members or call for help and rape it only pets u would have to worry about is suzie have a rdm/drk chainspell stun its 2hr and sireyu either keep mages to spam cure tank or have a pld 2hr vs its hundred fists.

once all pets are dead dissolve the outside ally and have the leader of the main tank pt kiting kirin ally the 2 pts containing the most DD's with us its usually 1 pt of blm's and another pt of rngs, drks, wars and mnks for chi blast and just take it out will continuing to kite it 2hr may or may not kill alot of people depending on where everybody is during the kiting process but basically for low man or many man this is a flawless strat and should win everytime so GL ^^

[FailureMidgard]

So what's the minimum # of people needed to truly low-man Kirin. Assuming 2 kiters needed max, how many people are needed to not wipe to the adds.

[aurik]

So what's the minimum # of people needed to truly low-man Kirin. Assuming 2 kiters needed max, how many people are needed to not wipe to the adds.

If you don't mind using a reraise strat, you can deal with all of kirin's adds with 7 people total. No need to kite Kirin, just assign a bard to sac him repeatedly while you pull the adds one by one with a standard TP-burn PT (cor, brd, rdm, 3x mnk-war-rng-etc)

Of course, beating Kirin's regen with 7 is going to be tough.

I'd gather around 13-14 total should be able to drop Kirin reliably, albeit slowly.

[FailureMidgard]

So what's the minimum # of people needed to truly low-man Kirin. Assuming 2 kiters needed max, how many people are needed to not wipe to the adds.

If you don't mind using a reraise strat, you can deal with all of kirin's adds with 7 people total. No need to kite Kirin, just assign a bard to sac him repeatedly while you pull the adds one by one with a standard TP-burn PT (cor, brd, rdm, 3x mnk-war-rng-etc)

Of course, beating Kirin's regen with 7 is going to be tough.

I'd gather around 13-14 total should be able to drop Kirin reliably, albeit slowly.

What is the point of saccing? The brd sacs to kirin, someone pulls an add, then you kill the add without kirin linking? Does this limit the spawn-rate on adds more than kiting would?

Also, just how high (in hp/X sec) is his regen? Could a SCH MBing a Helix on top of standard DoTs match the regen

[Tajin]

Most of the strats here are very good, you could also try the (very) underhanded tactic of popping Kirin when other LS doing their also (without blocking their pop attempt) and CFH on the summons.

Having two summons on you at the time can screw your lowman attempt inf you cant kill them fast and get a bad combination.

Though anybody can kite Genbu really >.>

[fishstix]

If a taru BLM knew he were main kiter, there's a lot of +hp gear they could toss on. All the RSE has a bunch of it, then there's the usual BQ ring etc.

My friend's taru whm/sch has something like 1326 hp for his sublimation build

[The Stig]

Just don't make the mistake I've seen too often on low-man kiting. If a PLD invincibles for Seiryu or whatever else shit-hit-fan scenario arises, be sure he doesn't have any hate shared with the kiter :/ This leads to lulz

You can avoid hate issues entirely by having the person kiting just pop it in an outside party with a mage. Don't take any subsequent action, the mage shouldn't rest (and shouldn't be a SMN) and you can kite with 0-hate so any cures won't pull hate. I do this on BLM/NIN with a RDM support for our Kirins, just because I'm something of a control freak and don't trust other people to do it. I do occasionally get hit by sandstorm and whirlwind because I haven't quite mastered navigating the far SW pillar, but the other moves either have a much shorter distance (Deadly Hold) or a much longer windup (Heat Breath). He starts summoning after certain period of time--I know some people thought that you have to be doing damage to trigger it but you don't, and the THF from main alliance watches to tag them. Those two TP moves that do land from time to time, more often than not I'll take resisted damage from them which I find curious, I imagine there's an INT vs. INT component to them or something.

Does that mean the kiting person pops it, and Kirin comes out red, if I don't do anything, it's just "aggroed"? (hence the 0 hate thing). So if I have a RDM and a PLD together, and if an outside mage needs to jump in to help cure, there is still no hate generated, because of the "aggroed" state?

What if I use job abilities/spells (on self)? I forgot entirely how the hate system works but I think it's possible to use them and still not generate any hate, providing Kirin is untouched.

[fuergrissa]

So what's the minimum # of people needed to truly low-man Kirin. Assuming 2 kiters needed max, how many people are needed to not wipe to the adds.

If you don't mind using a reraise strat, you can deal with all of kirin's adds with 7 people total. No need to kite Kirin, just assign a bard to sac him repeatedly while you pull the adds one by one with a standard TP-burn PT (cor, brd, rdm, 3x mnk-war-rng-etc)

Of course, beating Kirin's regen with 7 is going to be tough.

I'd gather around 13-14 total should be able to drop Kirin reliably, albeit slowly.

Your saying pop Kirin with BRD, let him die, then just keep pulling and dieing untill it spits out a mini? Wouldnt that take a really really long time? I've never known kirin to spawn minis as he is pulled.

Also to the person that asked about Regen: Kirin will 100% resist your helix every time. The regen is probly something around 25-tic so as long as you do more than 1k damage every 1.5 min or so it should go down. Thats just a guess also btw, but I think its probly pretty accurate.

As for kiter I'd probly pair a NIN/WAr and a RDM/WHM should be fine all day long. I like /WAR better because it's easier to build hate on the run and with a full-enmity set nothing will pull hate off you short of a 2k Chi Blast. (as long as you spam ninjutsu with your JA's and try to hit as many in your pt with warcry as possible) kiting it is really a joke, but your mage has to be good, Cure when your slept, erase when your bound. He's not hard to straight tank with enough support but you do get hurt and of a low man group it'd be better to not need to.

As for DD I'd say 4 would be enough to kill in 1.5 hours. We always prefered a phalanx of Rangers over stunner, cause they do great DoT and WS adds up to a lot. MNK/WHM and SMN are also very good. BLM's work but they need 100% Ele Skill gear even with full merits to do the most damage. He resists a lot.

I would take a (without looking at your jobs available)
NIN/WAR
RDM/WHM

PLD/NIN
WHM
BRD
RNG
RNG
MNK
RDM/DRK

You can skip the RDM/DRK if you trust everyone enough to clear off suzy in time and Use your rangers to shadowbind, Same thing with Seiryu. It could be a super easy fight with that group, or if you get lucky it could go bad also, but that would be kinda and ideal minimum for me.

[LLK]

So what's the minimum # of people needed to truly low-man Kirin. Assuming 2 kiters needed max, how many people are needed to not wipe to the adds.

If you don't mind using a reraise strat, you can deal with all of kirin's adds with 7 people total. No need to kite Kirin, just assign a bard to sac him repeatedly while you pull the adds one by one with a standard TP-burn PT (cor, brd, rdm, 3x mnk-war-rng-etc)

Of course, beating Kirin's regen with 7 is going to be tough.

I'd gather around 13-14 total should be able to drop Kirin reliably, albeit slowly.

Chi Blast(lol) a RNG + COR SlugShotting and a decent Bio/Poison from the RDM could take Kirin down. If anyone wants to try it let me know I'll check back in a month to see how you're doing.

[fishstix]

Just don't make the mistake I've seen too often on low-man kiting. If a PLD invincibles for Seiryu or whatever else shit-hit-fan scenario arises, be sure he doesn't have any hate shared with the kiter :/ This leads to lulz

You can avoid hate issues entirely by having the person kiting just pop it in an outside party with a mage. Don't take any subsequent action, the mage shouldn't rest (and shouldn't be a SMN) and you can kite with 0-hate so any cures won't pull hate. I do this on BLM/NIN with a RDM support for our Kirins, just because I'm something of a control freak and don't trust other people to do it. I do occasionally get hit by sandstorm and whirlwind because I haven't quite mastered navigating the far SW pillar, but the other moves either have a much shorter distance (Deadly Hold) or a much longer windup (Heat Breath). He starts summoning after certain period of time--I know some people thought that you have to be doing damage to trigger it but you don't, and the THF from main alliance watches to tag them. Those two TP moves that do land from time to time, more often than not I'll take resisted damage from them which I find curious, I imagine there's an INT vs. INT component to them or something.

Does that mean the kiting person pops it, and Kirin comes out red, if I don't do anything, it's just "aggroed"? (hence the 0 hate thing). So if I have a RDM and a PLD together, and if an outside mage needs to jump in to help cure, there is still no hate generated, because of the "aggroed" state?

What if I use job abilities/spells (on self)? I forgot entirely how the hate system works but I think it's possible to use them and still not generate any hate, providing Kirin is untouched.

As long as you don't touch the mob, any spell or JA (not including SMNs) on yourself is fine (not sure about spikes). Outside mages can curebomb you for zero hate.

[ringthree]

One other thing, if you can make your tanks so they can't be one-shotted (Magic Damage -%, Magic Def Bonus, Aquilo's Staff and enough HP to take what is left of an unresisted Great Whirlwind)

Would the tanks be better off with an Iron Ram Lance? I guess that's the next best item to wear for kiting?

NIN can't use Iron Ram Lance, and Aquillo's helps with resists too.

[aurik]

Your saying pop Kirin with BRD, let him die, then just keep pulling and dieing untill it spits out a mini? Wouldnt that take a really really long time? I've never known kirin to spawn minis as he is pulled.

Pretty sure he will summon his pets even while idle. Why use a kiter + healer (2 active players) when you can just use a sac (dual-boxable)?

[Shafted!]

Going to attempt a low-man kirin eventually.

Our setup will most likely be:

nin/war
pld/nin
WHM
RDM
BRD

RNG
RNG
SAM

BLM
BLM
BLM

2-3 of those characters will be 2boxed.

The plan is to straight tank him, have the rng or sam WS and blms MB. Kite when needed MP or try to dodge stonega. Going to make a magic resist build for the nin i think. Consisting of mermaid equip and resist gear.

[Mrdude]

Honestly, your going to be best off kiting it with a lowman. Straight tanking the tanks will take a lot of damage and quickly lose hate, which will result in dead dd's. Also one rdm and whm will definitely not be able to keep all those people healed straight tanking kirin.

Also, rangers and blms wont be hurt much damage-wise by having to kite kirin, and geting off a sc is easy enough, just wait for it to stop and cast a Tier 4/ga/Am2, or even if the sam and rng are scing, any stop they should have time to get it off.

Using those same jobs, just have the bard in a party with the rng, rng, sam, blm, blm and the second party to be pld, nin( I strongly suggest /drk), whm, rdm, blm so all the blms will get refresh. Even kiting it I could see mp possibly being a problem, you may want to consider bringing a second whm or rdm.