Sorcerer's Ring

[SephYuyX]

Dunno if it was mentioned, but a real easy way to tell:
Force your -hp, switch into nuke gear, and then unequip zmitts; if your hp is yellow (assuming it's not already yellow), you have latent.

[Geli]

For taru any 4 zenith pieces + penitent's rope is enough to switch on latent and it won't be broken by changing between Prism / Merciful Cape or Sorcerer's Belt / Obi (can use Penitent's Rope too but only if you don't have HP merits).

And it's really interesting about food, I wonder if MP food works the same way with Uggy Pendant.

[Martinius]

as an elvaan blm, until i uncursed my zenith slacks, it took me 8 pieces of gear to activate my latent(including my tiphia sting shue, no shame if you've got it from another job ^^).

i just wanted to mention... unless you have af2 belt, as long as you hit your "force hp down" macro with penitent's rope on, swapping in obis won't affect the sorcerer's ring, since while raising your 'total' hp, your lowered hp is in fact, then even further below 75% ^^

also, folks mentioned the correct process for finding out your total hp(strip naked, put on prism cape, penitent's rope, rostrums if you nuke in them), but left out one thing that for some races like me, affect them greatly. the latent is active 'below 76% hp, not at 75%.' so the easiest way to calculate the hp required is to once you've found your 'naked base' hp, open your computer calculator, and multiply that number by .759. if for some reason you get a ton of numbers after the decimal, since this is SE we're talking about, always round down. that gives you your base you need to force to.

as an elvaan with no hp merits /rdm, it takes -253hp to activate, so even full zenith(i have a dalmatica), i'd have to get at least one +1 piece of zenith, so what i did instead(since im 'gimp' and nuke in af2 boots until i get yigit), was use an ether ring and my rostrums in my macro... dalm, zmitts, zslacks, serket ring, ether ring, and rostrums gets my latent active now and leaves me in white hp so long as i leave my zenith mitts on. once i get(bearing in mind i still need the abj as well... im like the only guy who got a dalm before a zenith crown) cursed crown -1 and a abj head, i'll be able to remove the ether ring and rostrums.

[Alpsyche]

This is a great read. I've been rocking this forced latent forever and never even considered the extra pieces that raise my HP total when I nuked, I just kept removing HP til I had my magic number (779) as BLM/RDM and Elvaan.

I always thought it was nekked HP as the base... My standard nuking set is solid. I've been stressing over the use of the Republic Circlet (The headpiece +5MAB in your own nation control) over the Demon Helm +1 and the difference might be something related to the +HP gear I have versus a defective Circlet... (feeling really IQ now...) Sorc Belt / Prism Cape and some various MB gear swaps I have in place for Fafhogg...

I hate catching this at work... Need to check my gearset omg...

[Suiram]

For taru any 4 zenith pieces + penitent's rope is enough to switch on latent and it won't be broken by changing between Prism / Merciful Cape or Sorcerer's Belt / Obi (can use Penitent's Rope too but only if you don't have HP merits).

And it's really interesting about food, I wonder if MP food works the same way with Uggy Pendant.

Food is the same with Uggalepih pendant, it isn't factored towards your max MP for latent. Neither is Convert HP>MP armor, Back, Ring, or Neck (including the MP+20 from ugg pendant itself lol). Also not sure about waist or ear because at the time I didn't check those and then never got around to it later.

[Suiram]

Sorry for the double post. Tested Main and Neck armor and they both count towards max HP, tested HP+% armor and it does not count. I updated the above table. I also tested some stuff with Uggalepih Pendant that I never got to the first time around and editted the post I made at the time, but that's over a year old so not gonna necrobump it lol I'll try to do Sub, Ear, and Hand for Sorc ring tonight or tomorrow or something.

[Locker]

Very interesting topic, and surprising findings regarding back armor, Suiram. I was recently trying to figure out how to make the ring proc for lower levels, and my calculations are dependent on ear and sub slots working in determining base HP. Have you completed the tests on the remaining gear slots? I am very interested to know the results.

---

[Suiram]

No sorry I've been lazy lol I just don't own any gear that gives +HP bonuses for those slots that BLM can equip, so I have to borrow some or buy something cheap off AH and I haven't gotten around to it lol I swear I'll do it soon ;x

[Suiram]

Okay, sorry for the delay. Tested Sub (Axe Grip), Ear (Stoic Earring), and Hands (Custom M Gloves), and all factor into the max HP calculation for latent. I also tested Fenrir's Stone and its effect on max HP is what would be assumed by the description. The +30 in the day counts toward max HP for latent, and when the bonus disappears at night it's no longer factored in. I also tested the back again with Gigant Mantle in case the odd behavior was unique to Prism Cape, but it also did not count toward latent.

[Valyana]

Oddly, Minstrel's Ring is a straight <hpp> check, it doesn't have the complicated rules that Sorcerer's Ring does. I read that Medicine Ring works like Minstrel's, and SMN ring is like Sorc.

Interesting to hear that Gigant Mantle doesn't affect Sorc ring.

[Whatinthe]

Okay, so I've been playing around some. Like I was trying to say before, it has never been confirmed that all of your HP+/- gear is used in the calculation of your latent HP%, and it turns out it isn't, but rather than the visible gear vs. accessories thing, the only one that I tested that didn't work was back slot for whatever reason. So in summary:

The following affects Max HP for the purposes of latent calculation:
Main
Sub
Ammo
Head
Neck
Ear
Body
Hand
Ring
Waist
Legs
Feet
HP merits

The following does not affect Max HP for the purposes of latent calculation:
Back
Convert HP>MP gear
HP+% gear
Food

Unknown effect
Range

Not to burst your bubbles, but you're a bit incorrect on this one. There has been some basic kensho done at http://blog.livedoor.jp/kupo2/archives/50116122.html and there are some pieces where an item would affect latent in a slot where another wouldn't. Relevant portions:

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???????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????+1?????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????2008.01.31????

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????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

----------------------------------------------------------
2008.02.01??
????BQ???????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????
----------------------------------------------------------

Affecting Latent:
HP Merits
All HP- items (P.Rope, R.Pumps, etc.)
Some HP+ items (Kirin's Pole, Seveneyes, W.Turban, C.Chain, Angel's Earring+1, Y.Serawheel, Wonder Kaftan, Bronze/Silver/Gold Mog Belt, Sorcerer Belt, Bloodbead Ring, Light Ring, Bomb Queen Ring has all been confirmed (as of Jan 31 2008).

Not Affecting Latent:
All Convert HP-to-MP items (Zenith, Serket, Astral Ring, etc.)
Some HP+ items (Gigant Mantle, Intensifying Cape, Prism/Rainbow Cape, Happy Egg, etc.)?For some reason Ammo, Back, and R.Ring does not affect latent

Added Feb. 01 2008
There has been some controversy on the BLM threads whether BQR would affect latent, and after additional testing, it does not affect latent if it's worn on R.Ring. If it is worn on the L.Ring however, it will affect latent.

[Ashtray]

Added Feb. 01 2008
There has been some controversy on the BLM threads whether BQR would affect latent, and after additional testing, it does not affect latent if it's worn on R.Ring. If it is worn on the L.Ring however, it will affect latent.

[Kriz]

That's so... weird

[Suiram]

That is weird. Now I feel dumb for only checking HP+ on L. Ring lol and Happy Egg I did check but I figured it not affecting was due to it being a +% rather than fixed bonus, but if moogle belts affect latent then I don't know. I guess the new new answer is "go check yourself when the latent works" since it's so varied. Not that BLM wears a lot of HP gear for casting.

[Spekkio]

maybe it processes stats sequentially without regard to latents with odd triggers like that? maybe based off item ID? the fact that the 2 ring slots are treated differently is fascinating. the sequential arguement would make sense for the convert HP>MP bit, since it first must determine your max HP before it can determine how low it can take you. this ensures that you don't end up with a negative or 0 max HP value while weak. if it checked the ring while trying to tabulate your fixed stat bonuses, that would make some good sense. a good way to test this would be to see if there's any +HP% item that will trigger it since those similarly would have to be calculated after all the fixed buffs.

[Suiram]

Well the moogle belts are listed in Whatinthe's post as being factored in, and those are HP+%. I've got a silver one though so I can verify it later. I also need to check the other ear slot I guess, too.

One thing the JP site is definitely wrong on though, is in saying Ammo does not affect it. Tiphia Sting and Fenrir's Stone (in daytime) both affect max HP for latent.

[Shuemue]

Yeah Tiphia definitely counts, it's in my ghetto macro because I'm too cheap to uncurse zenith slacks.

[Suiram]

Yeah Tiphia definitely counts, it's in my ghetto macro because I'm too cheap to uncurse zenith slacks.

Well by "counts" I think we mean something different, that if you were to nuke with Tiphia Sting equipped you would have to calculate the HP you need based on the new max HP -25, compared to, for instance, the Happy Egg, where you don't factor the HP+1% on max HP towards the # you need for latent. (Assuming you don't keep the Tiphia Sting on to nuke )

[Shuemue]

Yeah I didn't really think it through, did I?

Sweet Sachet ftw, even though I hate the new icon.

[shieldsofwindurst]

I dunno about you guys, but 5 bucks says all of this variation is thanks to something like a copy/paste error in the source code for the blm & smn rings. This really just smacks of someone hacking together a giant equation in a rush and forgetting a few arguments. Then someone else comes along later on & does the medicine/minstrels ring the "right" way with just straight <hpp> but they've already made the changes for the first rings and gone through lolSEqa (assuming there is such a thing) and nobody wants to go back & change them again.

The funny thing is that threads like these where all this is tested by the community could result in SE going back & making the ring a straight <hpp> check, which would result in screwing up the hp- macros for many a blm. Which is probably why they wouldn't change it, even if they were aware of it. Still, all these revelations are amusing as hell because I'd love to see what the justification is for back & r.ring ONRY not affecting the calculation, assuming the implementation is intentional-which let's face it, it's probably not.