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  1. #1
    With milk. With love
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    Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    I'm in the process of reworking my macros for red mage, and I'm planning on running three seperate enfeebling gear sets. One for +mind, +int, and +macc/skill. Now I'm familiar with spells like paralyze being dependent on mind for the proc rate & blind for the acc. down effect, however some spells such as slow do not have a direct influence from either int/mnd, thus where the macc set will come in. I'd like to get some classifications on the other essential enfeebling spells (silence, bind, gravity, etc...). Any assistance is appreciated.

  2. #2

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    however some spells such as slow do not have a direct influence from either int/mnd
    /facepalm, MND.

    silence, bind, gravity, etc...
    Pretty sure MND helps m.acc on silence and INT helps on bind, gravity, sleep, but it's tough to measure and not proven as far as I know. Personally, if master caster's aren't active I use dusk gloves(and swift belt) for bind grav sleep since the minimal int doesn't seem to do much and no good m.acc on hands until goliard or morrigan's. Just something to keep in mind, nice to cut bind timer when soloing or sleep timers in a rough situation. In general though, magic acc is best for these if you have no enfeebling skill for that slot.

  3. #3
    With milk. With love
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorny
    however some spells such as slow do not have a direct influence from either int/mnd
    /facepalm, MND.

    [quote:1by803j7]silence, bind, gravity, etc...
    Pretty sure MND helps m.acc on silence and INT helps on bind, gravity, sleep, but it's tough to measure and not proven as far as I know. Personally, if master caster's aren't active I use dusk gloves(and swift belt) for bind grav sleep since the minimal int doesn't seem to do much and no good m.acc on hands until goliard or morrigan's. Just something to keep in mind, nice to cut bind timer when soloing or sleep timers in a rough situation. In general though, magic acc is best for these if you have no enfeebling skill for that slot.[/quote:1by803j7]

    Was only using slow as an example.

  4. #4

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    ex·am·ple – noun
    1. One of a number of things, or a part of something, taken to show the character of the whole:This painting is an example of his early work.

    Slow has a direct influence from MND, increasing potency significantly, hence it isn't an example <_>

  5. #5
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    "Now I'm familiar with spells like paralyze being dependent on mind for the proc rate & blind for the acc. down effect,"

    I'm currently levelling RDM at the moment (49 right now) and I have been playing with two macro sets so far. A MND set for the White magic spells and an INT set for the Black ones. Which means I use INT setup and not MND for Blind as it is a Black magic spell. If there are any anomolies in White and Black spells that don't follow the way I'm playing then I'd very much like to learn which ones they are.

    I do of course add in things like Wizard's earring and Moldovite for nukes on the INT side so you could call that a third macro set.

  6. #6

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Pretty sure all white magic debuffs use MND and all black magic debuffs use INT, problem is at higher levels it's hard to prove which is more effective in reducing resists between INT and m.acc and skill gear since it'll all be in different quantities. Only blind, para, slow, and the elemental DoTs have a proven potency increase from base stats as far as i know. While something like Nashira Seraweels vs Mahatma Slops is clear cut nashira are better, what about goliard clogs vs mahatma pigaches for silence? The amount of testing to prove one is better than the other is pretty ridiculous since the difference is nigh-nonexistant and trying to quantitize(is that even a word?) X m.acc = Y mnd or int in generalities is extremely hard because they likely are in different parts of the calculation to determine resist and there are many different ways it could be calculated. Ugh, so many run-ons o_____o but 2 am i'll edit later

  7. #7
    Drunken Red Mage
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    By default my MND enfeeble macros fully stack mind gear. I have seperate macros for each piece of key enfeebling gear like AF1 body, torque, Nashira legs, and Master Caster's. Unless I'm pressed for MP I'll add enfeebling little by little if I need to recast from a resist.

    I find it easy to have a set with main and sub weapons that link to appropriate enfeebles and have the rest of the gear swaps there. Mistillteinn/Numinous+1 link to my MND enfeeble set, Dark Staff/Bugard+1 link to Sleep/Drain/Aspir/etc and so on.

    I dunno, makes sense to me I guess.


    I use dusk gloves(and swift belt)
    While we're talking about recast reductions, what is the cap? I never really bothered with it before but I'm toying around with the idea of swapping pieces out like you do but I want to know how much I might need to change. For stuff that has a static effect like Haste and Refresh I swap in AF1 head and AF2 body, that's close to the max recast reduction isn't it?

    While something like Nashira Seraweels vs Mahatma Slops is clear cut nashira are bette
    Whoa whoa whoa, wouldn't stacking more MND with Mahatma be better for Slow/Para to increase potency(assuming you can land it) over the skill and m.acc bonus of Nashira? In before "shit is situational" >_>

  8. #8

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    problem is at higher levels it's hard to prove which is more effective in reducing resists between INT and m.acc and skill gear since it'll all be in different quantities.
    Meant for bind, sleep, etc.. I know mahatma are better for slow/para/blind if they still stick >_> It's late and my paragraph and sentence structure is pretty terrible, my quote shoulda been next to what you quoted.

    Edit: Cap on recast reduction is 50% of base recast time, AF1 hat + AF2 body + traits remove 20%. You can get an additional 30% however you want and it'll still be effective, though I don't micromanage enough to bother with dusk and swift on anything but bind, sleep, gravity, or utsusemi. I'd rather not lower my max mp every time I cast haste or refresh and possibly lose some >_> Out for the night though.

  9. #9
    Zoot
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    MND is used as a potency factor for your % slow with decreasing value from potency as you hit the cap. Slow II cap is around 33% slow (perhaps abit more). If you are not adding in as much mnd as is possible to land unresisted then your slow is fail.

    Paralyze is tricky, full on mnd and full on enfeeble/macc is really not going to shine here. For your paralyze set you want an equal amount of both, depending greatly on what you're casting it on. Duration and partial proc rate resist can occur (or such is the accepted theory, http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=123116 the actual link to the test is down but there are probably many people with a copy of it). if you do not add in adequate amounts of skill, however, not adding enough MND could lead to a much lower proc rate too. Basically, you always want to use a staff with paralyze.

    This is what I personally do.

    For Slow, I have three macros. The first is full on MND, or what I call level 1. This set has +71 MND and uses a wand and shield. It also leaves on Duelist's Chapeau +1, Enfeebling Earring and Enfeebling Torque. I use level 1 for duoing NM's, some Einherjar Bosses (Odin Not included), Dynamis Bosses, Merits when necessary and most non HNM mobs in general.

    Level 2 has a mixture of both. This is the set I will try first on most NM's with tricky resist rates. It uses staff and grip, AF1 body, Altruistic Cape, Duelist's Chapeau +1, Omega ring, and enfeebling earring and torque.

    Level 3 has full on Macc and Enfeebling Skill. I use this for things like Odin, and other ToA HNM's if we ever did them.

    For Paralyze I basically start out at level 2, and move to Level 3 if necessary (which it usually isn't).

    For sleep, I use level 3 but Swift belt and Warlock's Chapeau (as well as Int in place of MND, durs).

  10. #10
    Demosthenes11
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    I use 3 enfeebling sets

    mnd set: gives total of 137 mnd (no merits orz), +45 int with +3 enfeebling from earring because im too poor for mnd earrings
    mix set: 119 mnd, +25 int +33 enfeebling (AF body, AF2 hat, earring), and 2 macc
    skill set: 96 (lol) mnd, +24 int +50 enfeebling, +8 macc

    Toying around with the different sets right now (just got nashira pants). Skill set is for "oh god i really need this to stick," and it's worked really well for that (I get less resists than the other sets I've found). Mix set is good for HNM, and mnd set nice for low man things.

    A lot of it comes down to personal preference imo. Some people believe more in different things. I've never really found a full int set (lolelvaan) to be worth it (blind not that useful and small small difference in binds).

    lol, basically what the dude above me said

    edit: thing I'm working on now is a set that keeps mp high...it sucks going from idle mp (1030ish) to mnd or skill gear (700ish). Losing 300 mp at the start of a fight kinda sucks...

  11. #11

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Demos has it right with having 3 sets.
    Thats how I liked to do it.
    Full Potency/Mid Potency-Mid Accuracy/Full Accuracy
    those 3 work nicely for any situation you may be casting in.

    I'd like to mention though. It seems like the other people in this thread are thinking that MND affects Blind accuracy down%. Iirc its Caster INT versus Target MND.

  12. #12
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Seditedi
    Demos has it right with having 3 sets.
    Thats how I liked to do it.
    Full Potency/Mid Potency-Mid Accuracy/Full Accuracy
    those 3 work nicely for any situation you may be casting in.

    I'd like to mention though. It seems like the other people in this thread are thinking that MND affects Blind accuracy down%. Iirc its Caster INT versus Target MND.
    Just because I like references;
    viewtopic.php?p=795583#p795583

    (Caster INT - Target MND + 60) / 4

  13. #13
    Drunken Red Mage
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoot
    you always want to use a staff with paralyze.
    That's the first I've ever heard someone say that. I always use Mistillteinn and Numinous+1 at the start with both Para and Slow, I don't switch to staves unless I'm getting resisted hardcore. I'll definitely give it a shot though and see what happens. Currently my setup without food looks like this:

    My full MND setup with Mistilteinn/Nms+1 is +68 MND and 310 enfeebling skill
    My full INT setup with Mistilteinn/Astral Aspis is +54 INT and 322 enfeebling skill (This is really only used for Poison II)

    Full skill with Mistilteinn/Nms+1 is +40 MND and 344 enfeebling skill
    Full skill with Mistilteinn/Astral Aspis is +41 INT and 344 enfeebling skill

    Using appropriate staff/grip shaves off another 11 MND or 12 INT depending. Like I said, I don't have a half and half macro set, I just swap in pieces as I need them. Normally I only have to replace Mahatma with Nashira and sometimes Dvt+1 with Master Casters(if they're not active I replace Promise Badge with Enfeeb torque).

    Things like Silence, Bind, Gravity, etc I always go full skill and staves since it's either a stick or resist with duration.

  14. #14

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Thanks Rocl! I was too lazy to find the exact formula.

  15. #15
    Zoot
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Auspice
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoot
    you always want to use a staff with paralyze.
    That's the first I've ever heard someone say that. I always use Mistillteinn and Numinous+1 at the start with both Para and Slow, I don't switch to staves unless I'm getting resisted hardcore.
    That's basically what the test showed, yea.

    And I used to do the same as you. But I had my doubts, because I never noticed a significant increase in proc rate when using all that +MND. Then I reread that test, which put alot of emphasis on the fact that staves greatly effect the duration of paralyze and also that the results showed that the mix of gear had the best results in terms of both proc rate and duration.

    So I did a little mini testing of my own, (friar's lanterns, messing around while duoing,we don't grow the bombs), and of a sample of 16 bombs each I got similar results as the test showed. The first test with all MND and 316 skill from gear/merits lasted ~30 seconds on average, and proc'd on an average of 3 times per cast. The skill + mnd set had 333 enfeebling skill, and 6 macc + staff, lasted nearly a minute on average and proc'd at an average of 3.6 times per cast.

    I would like to add here that I did a little testing with silence and didn't notice any difference between the three sets except that full mnd wore off earlier ._.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auspice
    Using appropriate staff/grip shaves off another 11 MND or 12 INT depending. Like I said, I don't have a half and half macro set, I just swap in pieces as I need them. Normally I only have to replace Mahatma with Nashira and sometimes Dvt+1 with Master Casters(if they're not active I replace Promise Badge with Enfeeb torque).
    For Slow and paralyze I will still use mahatma over Nashira in level 2 just because of the large amount of potency that piece adds, because I'm already losing 11 from mahatma body.

  16. #16
    Bagel
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Seditedi
    Demos has it right with having 3 sets.
    Thats how I liked to do it.
    Full Potency/Mid Potency-Mid Accuracy/Full Accuracy
    those 3 work nicely for any situation you may be casting in.

    I'd like to mention though. It seems like the other people in this thread are thinking that MND affects Blind accuracy down%. Iirc its Caster INT versus Target MND.
    I wanna know how you set up your macro lines lol. With all the spells I have, I'm only able to put one general MND and INT set up for each spell. So if I wanted to put in extra Gear to land a spell or add extra MND I'd need to do it manually and probably select the spell out of the Magic list. It's very tedious, so now I've just been using an in between set up with good Accuracy and MND.

  17. #17

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Full skill with Mistilteinn/Nms+1 is +40 MND and 344 enfeebling skill
    Full skill with Mistilteinn/Astral Aspis is +41 INT and 344 enfeebling skill
    For those numbers, I'd assume you're using AF body. Losing errant body for AF costs you 10 mnd(11 with mahatma) and gives you 15 skill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but staves give +10% magic acc on NQ and 15% on HQ. This would put a HQ staff equivalent to at least 45 skill for a loss of 11 MND on slow/paralyze >_> I always put staff on first before any skill pieces, though I only have mythic+1/nms+1 and no mistilteinn.

  18. #18
    Relic Shield
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Crizto
    Quote Originally Posted by Seditedi
    Demos has it right with having 3 sets.
    Thats how I liked to do it.
    Full Potency/Mid Potency-Mid Accuracy/Full Accuracy
    those 3 work nicely for any situation you may be casting in.

    I'd like to mention though. It seems like the other people in this thread are thinking that MND affects Blind accuracy down%. Iirc its Caster INT versus Target MND.
    I wanna know how you set up your macro lines lol. With all the spells I have, I'm only able to put one general MND and INT set up for each spell. So if I wanted to put in extra Gear to land a spell or add extra MND I'd need to do it manually and probably select the spell out of the Magic list. It's very tedious, so now I've just been using an in between set up with good Accuracy and MND.

    Windower macro? Or just seperate your equip swap from magic casting macro. Unless like me who 2boxing all the time, I just use the windower macro with full mnd setup all the time. Since most of the events I do can be say that they do not require me to using any full M.Acc setup.

  19. #19
    Relic Shield
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    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorny
    Full skill with Mistilteinn/Nms+1 is +40 MND and 344 enfeebling skill
    Full skill with Mistilteinn/Astral Aspis is +41 INT and 344 enfeebling skill
    For those numbers, I'd assume you're using AF body. Losing errant body for AF costs you 10 mnd(11 with mahatma) and gives you 15 skill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but staves give +10% magic acc on NQ and 15% on HQ. This would put a HQ staff equivalent to at least 45 skill for a loss of 11 MND on slow/paralyze >_> I always put staff on first before any skill pieces, though I only have mythic+1/nms+1 and no mistilteinn.
    you do not need staff for most situation thought, maybe those grand wyrm/kings/toau king only.

  20. #20

    Re: Red Mage Enfeebling Question

    I didn't say you do, the other person mentioned swapping other pieces before staff. If you're getting resisted in full MND, using your staff is the most efficient +accuracy/-mnd ratio of any gear switches.

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