Nyzul Isle: ToaU HNM Issues - Cerberus really

[Aux]

Well, let me start out by saying my group's successfully finished the 80s (mostly lucky without Cerberus)

But we've moved back to the 60's to start farming things, and lately its been a 1 in 3 chance of fail.
Mostly the failure I think is associated with fighting Cerberus, and then there's FFXI not wanting you to win once a while.
Then there's also the no drop. So 2/3 runs, a tag is wasted /nothing gained, IF cerberus comes into the picture.

My team generally went with the following, it totally decimates Hydra and Khimaira

WAR/NIN [NIN WAR MNK THF RNG BLM WHM RDM] Fanatics Bodyboost Clerics, Monarch
WAR/NIN [SAM NIN WAR] is disc holder, usually nothing
THF/NIN TH4 [PLD THF BRD] everything melee wise
RDM/BLM [WHM BLM RDM] Reraise, a couple of ethers
WHM/SCH [WHM BLM RDM SCH SMN BLU BRD] usually nothing
COR/NIN [COR RNG NIN BLM] everything melee and cleric's drink

but on floors where it's Cerberus.. hell breaks loose. The WHM runs out of MP. Cerberus does Magma Hoplon spam the last 1-20%. Times are usually within 15min remaining (lucky run) to 5min remaining (unlucky).

The WHM is the only one with Paralyna, a lot of us get Cleric's drink but the bastard can spam Utiliation like no other.

Cerberus fights usually the WARs have to rely on 2hrs in order to win, which is causing a problem.. And also usually the WHM needs to 2hr in order to save our asses because he's got no MP left.
I can see this only becoming a bigger issue once floor 100 is met, and I know we'll definitely need a stunner on GoH.

Roughly I'd say if we were to fight Cerberus 10 times with the above setup, we would win 4/10 fights, with 2 of them relying on 2hrs. We usually either time out or wipe fighting it. Hydra/Khimaira on the other hand.. we beat it hands down with no issues, they usually get downed with 3-5 minutes MAXIMUM, and once on a floor80 in 40 seconds minimum.

What could we do to help guarantee wins on this mofo?

Thanks in advance.

[Ramses]

Are your melees using body boost and fanatic's and mages mana boost, juice, ethers? Cerberus is a piece of cake with the temp items.

[Aux]

Yeah we are, I just went and edited my post on what items people pick up.

We're definitely doing something wrong because getting the items doesn't guarantee us a win..

[Ramses]

Seems to me with the problems you are having, you would be better served having your cor come nin, whm come brd and have your rdm sub whm. EVERYONE should be using drinks especially your whm there who you listed as using no drinks but runs out of mp all the time. Better for the disc holder to use a few tokens on drinks rather than lose them all on a loss. Let your nin tank cerberus and you should have no problem taking him down in under 5 minutes.

Edit: Actually have your rdm come whm along with the other 2 changes I mentioned.

[Seditedi]

RDM shouldn't sub BLM in Nyzul under any circumstances imo..
WHM sub is the way to go.

[Lordwafik]

Replace the RDM for a fourth DD and magma hoplon won't be an issue. Assuming your WHM is an outstanding WHM that is, but if they're having MP issues with 2 refreshes (COR and RDM) then I can't see them being fine.

Alternately, try keeping it as is, replace COR with NIN, WHM with BRD, RDM with WHM, and try it out.

Anytime I'm in nyzul it's DD/NIN x 4, WHM BRD (or sometimes RDM BRD if no good whms on).

BRD RDM COR is also a decent backline too if his DD set is good on corsair. BRD RDM COR should have zero MP issues, brd and rdm both sub WHM and use an MP set, cerb can go down easy with march x2, chaos/rogue roll, and throw in SV for an easy win.

Hope it helps!

Edit :

WAR WAR THF BRD RDM WHM

Plenty of MP, have your RDM sub WHM though, so you can have 2 paralyna, sleepga is garbage when you have horde that can be overwritten with sleep2s and reposes.

WAR WAR THF RDM COR BRD

Bard songs delicious as always, chaos roll doing more than anything minuet can do helps, COR can also give Scholar's Roll on top of Evoker to kick in conserve MP for the healers.

WAR WAR THF NIN(or RNG) WHM BRD

4 DDs, 1 Healer, 1 Supporter, this is fine for a lot of the things, you will have access to 2x paralyna, brd with MP set can do good on healing when your WHM is in between duties, and the hastes on top of the marches will provide very nice low recast for utsu. I'd probably pick RNG over the other jobs though so they can melee with axes on the easy stuff, and slug 1 shotting some of the easier mobs (especially on kill all).

[Suiram]

The job setup that stuck out to me when I first saw the available jobs was WAR WAR THF RDM BRD COR (or MNK WAR THF RDM BRD COR if the first person's MNK is as good as their WAR is). Lordwafik already outlined the reasons why, though, so I won't go into it again. You definitely do want two people /whm. Also, while I don't think having 3 people on a Nyzul boss should really be an issue, if you are having problems, and those problems stem from Hoplon spam as they apparently do, then the problems in turn stem from TP given and you could always fall back on having your THF stand back and only 2 melee on it, to increase the damage done / TP given, speed up your kills, and reduce the amount of healing required in the process--at least until you get more comfortable with it.

As for floor 100, I think once you acclimate yourself to the earlier floors' versions, you'll find 100 isn't that much harder. Easiest way to deal with it is to save the fanatics you get until the last 25%. Occasionally he'll try to screw you by spamming hoplon as soon as you use them and then start spamming GoH after they wear, but it's not as bad as it might seem and isn't by any means a guaranteed failure when it happens.

[aurik]

Save dusty wings for killing the hoplon stoneskin.

[TacoTaru]

Being apart of this group, I can say that having myself on Thf fall back did not appear to help in any situation I tried. I'm definitely not saying it hurt, but the Magma Hoplon spam was just as bad it seemed. Adjusting the setup to add Brd is probably what we'll switch up, and hope it helps Maybe adjust the Cor over as well if it's still not helping.

Thanks** for the help!

[Funkworkz]

have the bard try subbing blm for elemental seal + troubadour elegy. it helps alot with keeping shadows up on all of the toau bosses, hence saving you mp. just need to be careful if the bard pulls mobs on floors on the way up so he/she doesnt die

[Lordwafik]

have the bard try subbing blm for elemental seal + troubadour elegy. it helps alot with keeping shadows up on all of the toau bosses, hence saving you mp. just need to be careful if the bard pulls mobs on floors on the way up so he/she doesnt die

I'd reccomend against this as their biggest problem seems to be 1 person doing paralyna and it kicking their asses

[Alibeemac]

Change your setup to WAR SAM THF WHM BRD NIN. SAM/NIN destroys the Bosses. We go WAR SAM SAM THF WHM BRD, usually kill Hydra/Khim in 90secs or less and Cerb in 3mins or so depending on how spamming with stoneskin it is. Have your sam save their 2HR incase of Cerb. Hydra/Khim are a pushover and they won't need. Go all out at 100% with 2hrs from melee taking its hp down as low as possible before it gets spamming with stoneskin/para. Usually the last 10% for us is when we have to drop stoneskin. Don't be afraid to use 2hrs on Cerb as a good percentage of the time their is revitalisers in chests on your next run that the melee can pick up.

[stinkypoo]

You have no BRD. Move stuff around to have a BRD, and make the COR come DD since WHM RDM BRD COR is too much support and not enough DD. Also it's been said already but:

RDM/BLM

Wut. No. Let's see what BLM sub gives:

- Warp (!)
- Escape (!!)
- lolConserve MP: with refresh, sanction refresh, possible refresh armor including Balhran's, ballads and convert, it's hard to run out of MP
- Sleepga: Sleep I, Sleep II and Gravity allows you to handle 3 adds, not counting the WHM's Repose and the BRD's lullabies
- Drain and Aspir: see conserve MP, not to mention that it's usually for shit numbers anyway
- Ele seal: nothing is really hard to enfeeble except the ToAU NMs, which we used the WHM/BLM's ES Slow on

Now let's see what it doesn't give!

The WHM is the only one with Paralyna, a lot of us get Cleric's drink but the bastard can spam Utiliation like no other.

Plus curagas, etc ;/. Also having a BRD would give you a 3rd paralyna, perfect for the 3 melees.

[Hulk]

Save dusty wings for killing the hoplon stoneskin.

This is the correct answer.

[Vistani]

You have no BRD. Move stuff around to have a BRD, and make the COR come DD since WHM RDM BRD COR is too much support and not enough DD. Also it's been said already but:

RDM/BLM

Wut. No. Let's see what BLM sub gives:

- Warp (!)
- Escape (!!)
- lolConserve MP: with refresh, sanction refresh, possible refresh armor including Balhran's, ballads and convert, it's hard to run out of MP
- Sleepga: Sleep I, Sleep II and Gravity allows you to handle 3 adds, not counting the WHM's Repose and the BRD's lullabies
- Drain and Aspir: see conserve MP, not to mention that it's usually for shit numbers anyway
- Ele seal: nothing is really hard to enfeeble except the ToAU NMs, which we used the WHM/BLM's ES Slow on

Now let's see what it doesn't give!

The WHM is the only one with Paralyna, a lot of us get Cleric's drink but the bastard can spam Utiliation like no other.

Plus curagas, etc ;/. Also having a BRD would give you a 3rd paralyna, perfect for the 3 melees.

When they wipe to the nyzul bosses escape and warp are useful!

[Pninja]

Tidbits I agree with the most from other posters:

- Have the RDM sub WHM. In fact, have everyone that can sub WHM that's a back-line job do so (hell even your COR). Not really sure why your WHM is running out of MP so much with an entire other body that can be used as a main healer. As a RDM main healer in Nyzul, I usually buy a mana boost (rest to almost full b4 fight, or big convert), a dusty elixir just in case, a cleric's drink (along with melee) in case someone gets petra'd w/o a WHM, and an assassin's drink to try and enfeeb the ToAU NMs (I occasionally will land a Slow2 or something, and it also lets you be able to consistently dispel blaze spikes effect on Hoplon). When we were doing Floor80, I think I only bought an assassin's drink.

- Try to get a BRD in the mix. Helps a ton. You can have em SJ blm for landing elegy, but they'd prolly be more effective as WHM SJ, like mentioned.

- DD, DD, THF, BRD, RDM, Mage is a good setup for these things, provided at least one of those DD is designated to tank or is a NIN and your RDM is an experienced main healer. The mage spot could even be converted to DD if you have an effective BRD/RDM combo. My setup on Floor80 was MNK (tank), BLU, THF, BRD, RDM, SMN and we were given Cerberus like 80% of the time and never had an issue unless super low time. It's a shame you can't have someone come BLU, cause they're seriously useful in Nyzul.

Although Hydra is pretty squishy on Floor80, Cerberus really should be no more difficult than Hydra because his AoE moves can be blinked and are just damage, Ululation can be escaped from hitting mages, and Hoplon is removable with damage...whereas Hydra's shield is only removable with time.

[Ehran]

A quick warning: Getting items won't "guarantee" a win everytime.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/6538/nyzul01nr9.png

The items are a godsend, and they will make the fights much eaiser, but every once in a while you get the shaft.

[TacoTaru]

We were about to enter for one last run a few weeks ago and our Rdm said it would be funny if we got Cerberus with weapon skill restrictions. Needless to say we hit floor 60 and had weapon skill restrictions; but it was Hydra.

[BerenTebogo]

A quick warning: Getting items won't "guarantee" a win everytime.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/6538/nyzul01nr9.png

The items are a godsend, and they will make the fights much eaiser, but every once in a while you get the shaft.

We got casting time penalty the other day, like 150% casting time for ichi and ni and shit, almost wiped, shit fucking sucked.

[Ianpier]

lol, we've had a very good luck with restrictions and penalty, just once i remember we got Ninjutsu restriction on a kill all floor with a dahak, was kinda annoying but went fine, besides that we get alot of blue magic restrictions and summoning.

Talking about Cerb we use alwyas WAR WAR DRG THF BRD RDM, we use fools drink instead of fanatics. DDs always take also a Body Boost and a dusty wing, helps alot for stoneskin spams

Also usually if the last floor before boss is a easy floor we just store TP to start on boss with 100 or close to.

Always RDM/WHM for paralyna, assign them each a melee, for example in my group the rdm and the brd each taking care of 1 of the wars, they being priority cuz usually tanking and para for casting shadow is important, and then 1 of em take the thf the other take the drg, is good to have em assign on melees before hand to avoid wasting both casting paralyna on the same person.