Salvage v. King Gear, OR Should Tanks Blink? (Milkman split)

[Zilong]

Full usukane is definitely tops for lolpup. 18 and rising!
Full usukane is definitely tops for mnk.
Not sure about ninja, never play the job really.
Samurai is a bit more complicated:
Relevant: http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=p ... 65815&d=60

Full Usukane
STR +16
DEX +13
Accuracy +36 (+45.75 with added Dex)
Evasion +29
Attack +17 (+29 with STR)
Haste +8% (+13% with total of the set)
"Store TP" +13
Set: Adds 5% to total Haste %

Ace's, Haubergeon +1, Dusk +1, Byakko's, Usukane Sune-Ate
STR +10
Dex +21
Accuracy +26 (+45.5 with addex Dex)
Evasion -27
Attack +25 (+32.5 with added STR)
Haste +15%
"Store TP" +7

The main difference is 2% haste, 3 attack vs 1.5 wdmg, 6 store TP, 56 evasion. By using mix-n-match, Sam does a slight bit more damage basically by virtue of the extra 2% haste.

However, 56 evasion is a huge amount. Full usukane is very noticeable on merit-level mobs on my monk--so much so that I'm wanting to replace my merman's earring with an ethereal earring for the net +9 evasion for -1 attack. The 6 STP also means that less merits are needed to break the 6-hit tier, and the only other good place to put those merits is a slightly shortened 3rd eye recast.

Thus, a samurai with full usukane does a bit less damage in return for a huge amount of durability.

NIN pretty much have a similar choice between offensive capability in mixing and matching sets vs using full usukane. It's basically comparing the above setup, but changing ace to walahra, and the body to AF+1.

Though for NIN, the whole less durability point is kinda moot since during merit you can Ni > Ni about everything with a bard in the party.

Of course, the argument can be given on Full Usukane allowing you to use meat since there is a good amount of difference in ACC, but considering I'm having problem maintaining 90% hitrate on mamools with my current setup and sushi, I somehow doubt full usukane can allow me to eat meat on them. Of course there are other camp, but I just prefer mamools.

[Ehran]

Of course, the argument can be given on Full Usukane allowing you to use meat since there is a good amount of difference in ACC, but considering I'm having problem maintaining 90% hitrate on mamools with my current setup and sushi, I somehow doubt full usukane can allow me to eat meat on them. Of course there are other camp, but I just prefer mamools.

Speaking as a NIN, I think you've touched on the biggest problem with using Usukane full time, the ACC bonus doesn't seem big enough to let you eat meat.

If you stay in full Usukane for a WS, you lose a large amount of STR/DEX. Swapping to normal WS gear with meat means you loose the ACC from the Usukane, so your WS average will almost surely drop. If you stay in Usukane you sacrifce a small amount of DoT from the loss of haste, and you give up some damage on your WS's.

I dunno, I just don't see full Usukane working best on NIN.

[Kaeko]

I was going to check on kaeko's LJ for the first time in a while to see what the state of enmity testing is but OH SHIT don't go to kaeko.livejournal.com instead of kanican.livejournal.com

WTF is that

[Darkdreamer]

Well full Usukane would look nice for Nin I don't see myself obsessing over it. The only piece worth truly mentioning would ve the feet, +5 Enmity could help in so many ways, and the +Acc and Attack with the +2% haste makes that the piece I really desire out of the whole set.

The Body is nice and all, but pouring that much money when you can get similar results from things like a Haub +1 you're paying a ton more for +2 more Str and Dex.

It also depends on how you play Nin as well, some obsess over meat and do everything they can to use meat while others are speed freaks and stick with Sushi and throw in as much haste as possible. With full Usukane you get 13% Haste (provided you have Haste on you). With Wal Mart Turban, Dusk Gloves/Koga Tekko, Byakko's, Fuma's you get 16-17% without Haste on. Personally I can't see giving up that much speed on my katana's or recast timers to make investing in full Usukane worth it. But that's how I play Nin, I'd rather hit and hit fast rather than pray I'm going to hit hard and occassionaly hit hard by using meat and Acc gear.

If it comes down to it I would only go after the feet for my Nin and maybe the Body if I wanted an overpriced Haub +1.

[aurik]

With full Usukane you get 13% Haste (provided you have Haste on you).

...

With Wal Mart Turban, Dusk Gloves/Koga Tekko, Byakko's, Fuma's you get 16-17% without Haste on.

With full Usukane you get 13% haste full-stop.

[Darkdreamer]

my mistake... full set still not that spectacular for Nin

[Judai]

my mistake... full set still not that spectacular for Nin

Uh.. I think the NINs are kinda retarded. Full Usukane gives you more Acc then normal NIN set-ups unless they use OHat or some shit and drop alot of Haste.

Full Usukane
STR +16
DEX +13
Accuracy +36 (+45.75 with added Dex)
Evasion +29
Attack +17 (+29 with STR)
Haste +8% (+13% with total of the set)
"Store TP" +13
Set: Adds 5% to total Haste %

My Sushi NIN Set-up (W.Turban,AF1 Body,Dusk Gloves,Byakko's Haidate,Usukane Sune-ate)
Dex +15
Accuracy +7 (+14.5 w/ DEX)
Attack +12
Haste +15%
Store TP +7
Enhances Dual Wield (+5% Attack Speed)

Probable Meat NIN Set-up (Usukane Somen,Hauby+1,Dusk Gloves,Byakko's Haidate,Usukane Sune-ate)
STR +9
DEX +21
Accuracy +26 (+36.5 w/ DEX)
Attack +24 (+28.5 w/ STR)
Haste +13%
Store TP +7
Evasion -13

Anything else just nets you even less Acc unless you start adding OHat and losing even more Haste. Usukane is the best Haste/Attack Speed Bonus combined with Acc. If you don't even have Usukane Sune-ate/Somen then you are even worse off in terms of Acc(losing 14acc for 3% Haste).

Also, who the fuck WSs in their TP gear? Of course you swap into different gear for WS so that comment was just retarded.

Personally, I doubt I would use the full set for NIN because I don't have Katana Merits and even with the large Acc Bonus on Usukane, I think I would still need more Acc but at least 3-4 pieces I would use in either TP or WS set.

[aurik]

Fixing some transcription errors (sam gets different 2h stat bonus from str/dex)

Full Usukane
STR +16
DEX +13
Accuracy +36 (+42.5 with added Dex) fixed for 1h calculation
Evasion +29
Attack +17 (+25 with STR) fixed for 1h calculation
Haste +8% (+13% with total of the set)
"Store TP" +13
Set: Adds 5% to total Haste %

Ideal Sushi NIN Set-up (W.Turban,AF1 Body,Dusk Gloves+1,Byakko's Haidate,Usukane Sune-ate)
Dex +15
Accuracy +7 (+14.5 w/ DEX)
Attack +13
Haste +16%
Store TP +7
Enhances Dual Wield (+5% Attack Speed)

Ideal Meat mix-n-match NIN Set-up (Usukane Somen,Hauby+1,Dusk Gloves+1,Byakko's Haidate,Usukane Sune-ate)
STR +9
DEX +21
Accuracy +26 (+36.5 w/ DEX)
Attack +25 (+29.5 w/ STR)
Haste +13%
Store TP +7
Evasion -13

So 6 extra acc over meat build, 7 more str, 4.5 less attack, similar haste, and a lot more evasion.

[Judai]

my bad, forgot to edit that when I copy/paste and yea, didn't post the 25m dusk+1 version, lulz.

[Mojo]

Replace AF1+1 body with Haubergeon+1 or even Koga Chainmail, it is far from ideal.

[Max™]

Koga Chainmail is ideal towngear, right?
AF +1 body is good towngear for the whitebox, Shock Spikes are neat, 5 Dex doesn't hurt, neither does the Vit if you're /Dnc or being hit. Oh yeah, 5% faster swings assuming you're using sushi anyways, and are thus at high ass Acc %... isn't good?

I <3 Berg +1 on Nin, but AF +1 body in a speed demon U/P build is pretty sexy still isn't it?

[Judai]

Replace AF1+1 body with Haubergeon+1 or even Koga Chainmail, it is far from ideal.

Can you read? AF Body is for Sushi, Hauby+1 for Meat, Koga Chainmail for Mannequins.

[BerenTebogo]

AF+1 is fine for birds and meat since you really shouldn't be meriting without 2 BRDs anyways.

Edit: To stay on topic, I will most likely use full usukane on NIN 90% of the time.

[Lordwafik]

Replace AF1+1 body with Haubergeon+1 or even Koga Chainmail, it is far from ideal.

Koga Chainmail for Mannequins.

Can you please tell that to Seraphlord of Asura who wears Koga Chainmail fulltime except for -dmg taken gear.

Thankyou.

[Mojo]

Replace AF1+1 body with Haubergeon+1 or even Koga Chainmail, it is far from ideal.

Can you read? AF Body is for Sushi, Hauby+1 for Meat, Koga Chainmail for Mannequins.

I certainly can. My NIN gear is somewhat exceptional and it's quite rare that I'll ever be in a situation where I'd have enough accuracy to justify the switch. Sushi doesn't mean you can use whatever the fuck you want and forget about accuracy.

[Judai]

Replace AF1+1 body with Haubergeon+1 or even Koga Chainmail, it is far from ideal.

Can you read? AF Body is for Sushi, Hauby+1 for Meat, Koga Chainmail for Mannequins.

I certainly can. My NIN gear is somewhat exceptional and it's quite rare that I'll ever be in a situation where I'd have enough accuracy to justify the switch. Sushi doesn't mean you can use whatever the fuck you want and forget about accuracy.

lol, if you say so. I guess 15% Acc sucks ass or something and you need to keep stacking Acc gear on. For Lurkers and shit I swap to Noritsune Kote for extra Acc on NIN and my BRDs are smart enough to use Madrigal. Really don't care how good your NIN gear is because obviously you don't get that Sushi really is enough Acc on top of your normal Acc gear unless you are fighting something amazingly rediculously evasive. That's why it's called Ideal Sushi Set-up, guess we should add "unless you don't know how to add in a bit more Acc for specific mobs and have equip swaps depending on what you are fighting".

Sushi and my normal Acc gear comes out to almost 400 Acc.

[BerenTebogo]

Who merits on mamool?

Fuck mamool.

[Mojo]

Replace AF1+1 body with Haubergeon+1 or even Koga Chainmail, it is far from ideal.

Can you read? AF Body is for Sushi, Hauby+1 for Meat, Koga Chainmail for Mannequins.

I certainly can. My NIN gear is somewhat exceptional and it's quite rare that I'll ever be in a situation where I'd have enough accuracy to justify the switch. Sushi doesn't mean you can use whatever the fuck you want and forget about accuracy.

lol, if you say so. I guess 15% Acc sucks ass or something and you need to keep stacking Acc gear on. For Lurkers and shit I swap to Noritsune Kote for extra Acc on NIN and my BRDs are smart enough to use Madrigal. Really don't care how good your NIN gear is because obviously you don't get that Sushi really is enough Acc on top of your normal Acc gear unless you are fighting something amazingly rediculously evasive. That's why it's called Ideal Sushi Set-up, guess we should add "unless you don't know how to add in a bit more Acc for specific mobs and have equip swaps depending on what you are fighting".

Sushi and my normal Acc gear comes out to almost 400 Acc.

15% accuracy is a significant boost but unfortunately just isn't enough for ninja in most cases. I hope your swapping more than just your kote because the difference in evasion between a Mamool Ja Stable and a Mamool Ja Lurker is around double what Blade Madrigal and Noritsune Kote add in accuracy. I do change my gear depending on what I'm fighting. Unless you think an 85% hit rate is 'good enough' to justify using AF1+1 body(which it isn't), you really should rarely be using it. Birds are no exception to this. Madrigal is not a replacement for sushi.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Hitting really fast for 10 damage isn't going to help anyone fyi

[Raineer]

Hitting really fast for 10 damage isn't going to help anyone fyi

But it makes you feel Japanese! Death by paper cuts!!