Salvage v. King Gear, OR Should Tanks Blink? (Milkman split)

[Talint]

Judai noob said the kurayami...I'm HOPING he typed that instead of utsusemi. If not, this guy has no hope.

I'm done talking to a wall, have fun ripping on milkman guys

That really doesn't answer my question, but I'll make my point anyway.

If it's really all about maximization and being the best you can be, you'd cast all those ridiculous enfeebles anyway, even if the returns are poor. It'd help you reach the hate cap faster.

Not that I do it myself, but if you were a real min/maxer, you would carry around a stack of those tools.

[Judai]

It's all about the effort you put in to MAXIMIZE your playing ability. It's the same concept as striving to get that HQ gear for 1 extra HMP, enmity, or magic attack bonus. If you're content with not maximizing your playstyle, that's up to you. When it comes down to it, however; non-lazy people who do macro in different gearsets, and mages who don't suck and can target a tank will always be better. If it happens to be ONE Tiamat claim out of 500 that your 1 second off utsusemi saves you from taking a MS double attack which would in turn drop you and lose claim to the local faggots who sit there for 6 hours and elemental seal sleep on every landing while trying to paralyze it then IT'S WELL WORTH IT.

Out of idle curiosity:

Do you spam ninjutsu when you're PLD/NIN; that is to say, hojo, jubaku, etc?

Judai noob said the kurayami...I'm HOPING he typed that instead of utsusemi. If not, this guy has no hope.

I'm done talking to a wall, have fun ripping on milkman guys

You seriously are one of the dumbest people I have argued with. Obviously, you live in some perfect world where nobody fucks up and support is perfect and.. oh shut the fuck up and realize you lost your argument the moment you opened your idiotic mouth. Seriously, laughing at the fact that you think you actually won the arguement when you failed to understand anything I said or my arguement and contradicted yourself and your buddy several times and tried to dodge and back pedal.

Didn't die or lose hate on Tia today, so I'll stick by my way of tanking. Even pulled it completely solo and held her a little over a minute until a BLM showed up and slept her right when I was about out of moves. Was pretty funny when a LS mate was like, BUT OMG JUD THAT DUDE ON BG SAID YOU SUCKED. HOW COULD YOU HOLD TIA SORO!! Of course due to 50 bullion adds and a QQing LS trying to mpk us it took forever to kill. Just incase one of their retarded members tries to come in and say omg 2hr Tia how horrible

[Genosync]

perfect world where nobody fucks up and support is perfect

um, nobody fucks up and support is perfect if you keep kicking the fuckups like you should until you have perfection, or you decide to deal with it for a little and train them because you see potential

[Tankjr]

How about that one time, when it's late, you are tired and you go to cure your tank and he blinks out and you miss him and he gets owned in the face and dies? You can't say it never happens, I've seen it happen.

Then it's your fault for not having proper macros with your tanks name in them, and you fail miserably.

[Raineer]

It's all about the effort you put in to MAXIMIZE your playing ability. It's the same concept as striving to get that HQ gear for 1 extra HMP, enmity, or magic attack bonus. If you're content with not maximizing your playstyle, that's up to you. When it comes down to it, however; non-lazy people who do macro in different gearsets, and mages who don't suck and can target a tank will always be better. If it happens to be ONE Tiamat claim out of 500 that your 1 second off utsusemi saves you from taking a MS double attack which would in turn drop you and lose claim to the local faggots who sit there for 6 hours and elemental seal sleep on every landing while trying to paralyze it then IT'S WELL WORTH IT.

Out of idle curiosity:

Do you spam ninjutsu when you're PLD/NIN; that is to say, hojo, jubaku, etc?

Judai noob said the kurayami...I'm HOPING he typed that instead of utsusemi. If not, this guy has no hope.

I'm done talking to a wall, have fun ripping on milkman guys

You seriously are one of the dumbest people I have argued with. Obviously, you live in some perfect world where nobody fucks up and support is perfect and.. oh shut the fuck up and realize you lost your argument the moment you opened your idiotic mouth. Seriously, laughing at the fact that you think you actually won the arguement when you failed to understand anything I said or my arguement and contradicted yourself and your buddy several times and tried to dodge and back pedal.

Didn't die or lose hate on Tia today, so I'll stick by my way of tanking. Even pulled it completely solo and held her a little over a minute until a BLM showed up and slept her right when I was about out of moves. Was pretty funny when a LS mate was like, BUT OMG JUD THAT DUDE ON BG SAID YOU SUCKED. HOW COULD YOU HOLD TIA SORO!! Of course due to 50 bullion adds and a QQing LS trying to mpk us it took forever to kill. Just incase one of their retarded members tries to come in and say omg 2hr Tia how horrible

It's pretty funny because every time you've responded you are showing more and more that YOU are the one not reading arguments.

But wow, you held hate on Tiamat... /golfclap Maybe if you hold more hate you can kill it faster? idk... MPK and whatever still happens, but in the end it is your hate vs. your DD's which determines kill speed.

How about that one time, when it's late, you are tired and you go to cure your tank and he blinks out and you miss him and he gets owned in the face and dies? You can't say it never happens, I've seen it happen.

Conversly, maybe there's that one time where someone goes a bit over-the-top on something and you've been doing whatever it is you normally do, since you're a god who is unable to lose hate... and since you are so afraid of blinking you actually lose hate (I know it doesn't happen to you, so we'll pretend you are someone else), and shit goes south because of it. You even stated yourself you had tons of adds and MPK attempts, etc, stuff like that sure can make for a lot more unexpected curing, yes?

But again, it is just Tiamat.... /golfclap

[Seebo]

It's all about the effort you put in to MAXIMIZE your playing ability. It's the same concept as striving to get that HQ gear for 1 extra HMP, enmity, or magic attack bonus. If you're content with not maximizing your playstyle, that's up to you. When it comes down to it, however; non-lazy people who do macro in different gearsets, and mages who don't suck and can target a tank will always be better. If it happens to be ONE Tiamat claim out of 500 that your 1 second off utsusemi saves you from taking a MS double attack which would in turn drop you and lose claim to the local faggots who sit there for 6 hours and elemental seal sleep on every landing while trying to paralyze it then IT'S WELL WORTH IT.

Out of idle curiosity:

Do you spam ninjutsu when you're PLD/NIN; that is to say, hojo, jubaku, etc?

Judai noob said the kurayami...I'm HOPING he typed that instead of utsusemi. If not, this guy has no hope.

I'm done talking to a wall, have fun ripping on milkman guys

You seriously are one of the dumbest people I have argued with. Obviously, you live in some perfect world where nobody fucks up and support is perfect and.. oh shut the fuck up and realize you lost your argument the moment you opened your idiotic mouth. Seriously, laughing at the fact that you think you actually won the arguement when you failed to understand anything I said or my arguement and contradicted yourself and your buddy several times and tried to dodge and back pedal.

Didn't die or lose hate on Tia today, so I'll stick by my way of tanking. Even pulled it completely solo and held her a little over a minute until a BLM showed up and slept her right when I was about out of moves. Was pretty funny when a LS mate was like, BUT OMG JUD THAT DUDE ON BG SAID YOU SUCKED. HOW COULD YOU HOLD TIA SORO!! Of course due to 50 bullion adds and a QQing LS trying to mpk us it took forever to kill. Just incase one of their retarded members tries to come in and say omg 2hr Tia how horrible

So you used your whole MP pool while Tiamat was flying til your blm came and slept. I want you in my LS man!

There is no possible way that I can lose this arguement, because when it comes down to the basic facts, in a perfect world/situation, swapping gear sets will make you a more effective tank. Completely regardless of the impact it has on your support, you as a tank will do better.

Now, you may argue (like you have been doing) that because you rely on your support that you need to accomodate to them. I in turn have told you, and will again now, that your support (if good at this game) will accomodate to YOU. They will either macro your name or find ways around your blinking. A good mage won't lose target on you long enough to make it matter, it comes as second nature to do this for them.

Again, what if the 1/5000000 happens, and them losing target on you really does matter? Well guess what? Not having a couple of seconds off your Utsusemi or less hate on your flash will cause more deaths/wipes. I promise.

Learn to play, scrubtits.

[Furionstormrage]

Personally I just don't blink if I'm out of shadows/low on HP/etc, I thought that was pretty much common sense.

[Tricen]

Tell your WHMs to make HNM macro sheet that has /ma "Cure IV" <name> and they put the tanks name in there. Takes 5 seconds to change a name. (Have 2 cureIV macros for 2 tanks)

[Mifaco]

How the hell did this turn into a conversation about blinking tanks?

[Titanss]

Dunno but I like it.

[Qlash]

Err, RDM and BRD are rendered useless? wtf?

We go 6ppl: Brd/whm Rdm/whm, Thf, Mnk/ninx2, Drg/whm.

Arrapago: 2x qqa, 3xqqth(>7 min kill last floor), Deviate Bhoot, Archair Charitot, Armored Chariot (boss) and 5-6 min left after boss kill.

[Judai]

@Geo, if you really claim you and your LSmates never fuck up at anything, you are fooling yourself. I'm not talking every fight, just common, "oops, moments".

@the pair of retards. Just so we are on the same page.

My Arguement; I don't find blinking necessary, if you want to do it and your support has no problems great. It's just not worth it for me.

Your Arguement; IF YOU DON'T BLINK YOU SUCKORZ!!1!

I mean seriously get over yourselves. You brought up Tiamat like it was hard to tank, not me. I just included my latest fight with her and your comments after show just how stupid you are. Killing something fast also has less to do with DD potential and hate holding then being able to control 2+ adds without enough people to really kill them fast and get back to DDing. I don't think we ever had less then 2 adds for the first hour, except for while we were holding with 4-5 and one tank for the first 15-20m. Obviously though, you know so much about everything and are so perfect you can't phathom situations like that. Yay for your perfect LS, I bet you guys are just as over rated as every other self proclaimed "Great LS" I have seen.

Say what you want, you both are collosal retards imo but obviously you never fuck up and obviously you guys are the perfect FFXI players, I salute you and wish I could join your LS and worship you. Oh wait..

[Raineer]

Say what you want, you both are collosal retards imo but obviously you never fuck up and obviously you guys are the perfect FFXI players, I salute you and wish I could join your LS and worship you. Oh wait..

Judai, I don't know WHY you keep making this statement... it hurts YOUR point, not mine.

You're saying "I don't need to blink because I am good and nothing ever goes wrong so I don't need max hate, I hold fine when everything is perfect, I don't need max hate" or "my DD's don't try hard enough", I'm not sure which it really is.

My point is "maybe if shit hits the fan you might need the hate, sure would help to train your LS to deal with the blinks and allow you the maximum possible hate you can get instead of assuming you can hold hate over Jesus"

BTW, calling me a retard over and over doesn't help your hate any with the mob, might want to focus on the argument at hand.

[Seebo]

It's what happens when people realize how retarded they are and cant handle the trolling, Rain. This thread has more than given me enough entertainment.

Anywho, one more post and my Fallso avatar is gone so I'm out, back to spam onry for me. GL with your LS Judai, they need all the help they can get with you tanking.

[aurik]

How the hell did this turn into a conversation about blinking tanks?

Think of it as a commentary on just how important Milkman's blog is.

[Jimmayus]

I like how Seebo and Raineer are such perfect players who never ever log in anymore!

[Raineer]

I like how Seebo and Raineer are such perfect players who never ever log in anymore!

Reflecting Aurik's comment, think of my recent playtime as a commentary on the quality of the game itself :rocl:

[Correction]

I like how Seebo and Raineer are such perfect players who never ever log in anymore!

Reflecting Aurik's comment, think of my recent playtime as a commentary on the quality of the game itself :rocl:

Tanking Judaimungand in a drama thread is more fun than staring at Darters?

It can't be!

[Noob]

Obviously though, you know so much about everything and are so perfect you can't phathom situations like that. Yay for your perfect LS, I bet you guys are just as over rated as every other self proclaimed "Great LS" I have seen.

...this is Sath you're talking about. As far as the argument's sake, the answer is, of course optimization.

Can't win this argument claiming you're appeasing your support by not blinking out if you're sacrificing optimization. Nothing comes before optimization. That's just how it goes. Your support need to be more understanding and learn to adapt to your tanks blinking out by making an extra macro for your tanks. It's really not that hard.

[Ashira]

Split from Milkman topic.


In other news, regarding Ares' and Salvage gear, Kaeko and I found that Marduk's Shalwar (the legs) have an unlisted -4 Enmity.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25804&start=480

For completion's sake, we'll obviously be testing other pieces to see if this is a common thing in the Salvage gear (hidden Enmity traits), or if it's just an oversight and the stat was just not listed on this one piece.


If Ares' Cuirass has a hidden +Enmity stat, I will lol.

Also, to respond late to an argument someone made about Ares' HP bonus... wouldn't that provide MORE of a reason to swap in and out of it? Take it off for something else, put it back on for Refresh and now poof, a Cure III's worth of HP to cure, which you'll have enough MP for in a minute since you have that extra 8 MP a minute now with Ares on versus another body piece...?