FINAL FANTASY XI Update (Apr. 14)

[KerithKitty]

Any other manaburns or soloists out there having issues with pet camps? Like, the pets don't spawn?!

My manaburn static tried to go to the Mamool drg camp to lvl off the wyverns in Bhaflau Thickets, but after the first two, we couldn't get any more to spawn without suiciding a Pikeman so it would respawn and call wyvern.

Anyone else having this issue at that camp? Or any other camp? Bunnies in Bibiki? Goblin Bats?

Just wondering if this is a ninja edit SE did to screw with manaburn/solo camps...


-Kerith

[Robert]

No, I was exping THF on goblin's spiders in altep with no problem.

-Robert Mk. 2

[Lordwafik]

My manaburn static tried to go to the Mamool drg camp to lvl off the wyverns in Bhaflau Thickets, but after the first two, we couldn't get any more to spawn without suiciding a Pikeman so it would respawn and call wyvern.

Call wyvern on those has always been the same 20 minute timer. If it's been up for a while and had it's pet out for 20mins, it can summon one right away, otherwise you have to zone it to respawn it with a wyvern.


PS , signing your name after each post manually despite the fact we can all see your name on the side is bad etiquette on these boards.

[Marootsoobutsu]

e) Selling, purchasing, or exchanging, monetary compensation or other items of value for (1) any in-Game characters, (2) any names, abilities, character features or other items or gear available within a game or obtained as a result of game play or through PlayOnline Service, (3) any points acquired as a result of using the Software or playing any online games in PlayOnline, or (4) access to any PlayOnline user account, regardless of whether such actions are mischaracterized as “selling the user’s time and effort”;

So, you're safe as long as that's ACTUALLY what you're doing, and not just mischaracterizing it as such?

LRN2RED
They'e saying you're NOT allowed to do that. It's to counter the people on eBay who love to say "Selling time and effort" and "code I built through progressing through the game myself" etc.

I read exactly what they said. And every person on Ebay will say that it's not a mischaracterization... someone who has leveled the job for fun, and then gotten bored with the game and sold it using the line, "You're paying me for time and effort" is lying; they are selling the character. Someone who has powered something else specifically for the purpose of selling it, though, is functionally putting time and effort into a task to make money. Ergo, it isn't a mischaracterization, it is a factual statement of what they are putting on the market, or at least it is a point they would make.

The "mischaracterized" line doesn't belong. Change it to "described", and it works. Mischaracterized implies a motive other than time/effort --> money methodization.

[Stromgarde]

I read exactly what they said. And every person on Ebay will say that it's not a mischaracterization... someone who has leveled the job for fun, and then gotten bored with the game and sold it using the line, "You're paying me for time and effort" is lying; they are selling the character. Someone who has powered something else specifically for the purpose of selling it, though, is functionally putting time and effort into a task to make money. Ergo, it isn't a mischaracterization, it is a factual statement of what they are putting on the market, or at least it is a point they would make.

The "mischaracterized" line doesn't belong. Change it to "described", and it works. Mischaracterized implies a motive other than time/effort --> money methodization.

The use of the word 'mischaracterized' here would imply that if they see you selling a character, gil, etc. and claim that you're doing anything other than selling SE's property (which you don't own), in their eyes you're full of shit.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Yes, yes, and since they have full power, it doesn't matter what justifications you use for it, they'll just delete if they find out. Got it; the point wasn't a serious one to begin with. It just seems remarkably poorly worded if they were trying to, say, get eBay to disallow such sales... given that eBay allows loopholes pretty regularly, someone making that claim would probably keep the auction up. If they used the word, "described" or similar, without implying deceit on behalf of the seller and instead remaining objective about what is happening, then it would close a lot of wiggle room.

Unless mischaracterized has some sort of legalese importance that the lawyers drafting this would get right away?

[Tsuko]

Skipping some changes that are almost too small to notice. eg Personal > Personally

Also not checking off against the EU version already posted, it took long enough reading through the manual itself. Edited again, for anyone who does check to see the differences... If it's not on this one I either missed it or it was already in the manual. eg There is a "Subscription Fee" section in the USA manual.

USA PC Version

1.10 “Software License Agreement” has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 2.1, below.

New

1.12 “User Agreement” has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 2.1, below.

New

2.1 Scope of the Agreement. The terms that apply to your use of PlayOnline include all of the terms of this Agreement, any and all software license agreements that you are required to execute as part of the PlayOnline registration and/or installation process (each, a “Software License Agreement”), all user agreements that you may be required to execute upon your subscription to or other participation in certain services (each, a “User Agreement”), the Privacy Policy, and any and all Rules. You agree to abide by any and all Rules, which shall, upon posting within PlayOnline and/or to the Website and/or delivery to Users, form a part of this Agreement. You understand and agree that the Rules, together with the Software License Agreements, User Agreements, and Privacy Policy, are expressly incorporated herein and form a part of this Agreement.

Bolded is new, italics just changed the wording a little.

(d) SEI MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY PLAYONLINE ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME, WITH ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.

New

4.1 Ownership and Rights. SEI (and, to the extent applicable, its licensors) owns and shall retain all right, title and interest in and to the PlayOnline Service, the Software and all Documentation, and will be the sole owner of any and all data you generate through your use of the PlayOnline Service, including accounts, Content IDs, character attributes, statistics and assets, and you receive only limited rights to access and use PlayOnline Service, the Software and all Documentation, as set forth in any applicable license agreement. SEI shall reserve its rights in its sole discretion to delete, alter, or transfer any and all data at any time without notice to User.


YOU DO NOT OWN YOUR ACCOUNT OR CHARACTER OR HAVE ANY PROPERTY RIGHTS TO YOUR CHARACTER OR ITS VIRTUAL ASSETS. YOU MAY NOT SELL, RENT, OR REPRODUCE YOUR CHARACTER OR ITS VIRTUAL ASSETS FOR ANY COMMERCIAL PURPOSE.





PLAYONLINE, THE SOFTWARE AND THE DOCUMENTATION ARE PROTECTED BY UNITED STATES AND FOREIGN COPYRIGHT AND TRADEMARK LAWS, AND INTERNATIONAL TREATIES, AND ARE THE SUBJECT OF TRADE SECRETS.UNAUTHORIZED REPRODUCTION OR DISTRIBUTION OF THE SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

Further, SEI (and, to the extent applicable, its licensors) owns and shall retain all right, title and interest in and to any ideas, opinions, comments, or suggestions that you submit to SEI, its affiliates, its agents, or its representatives in any form or format (including, but not limited to, e-mail, telephone, facsimile, regular mail, and chat room discussions) and in any context in which it is apparent that SEI may use such ideas, opinion, comments, or suggestions to improve the PlayOnline Service or any other product or service offered by SEI to its customers. Further, SEI shall have the right to assign and/or delegate in its sole discretion its rights and obligations under this Agreement in whole or in part to third party at any time without notice to Users.

Bolded is new.

4.2 Restrictions. To the maximum extent permitted by law, you may not: (a) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, “hack,” or disassemble the Software; (b) rent, lease, loan, sell, sublicense, distribute, transmit or otherwise transfer the Software, your User or other account-related information (including, but not limited to, your PlayOnline ID or password information) to any third party, or attempt to obtain the PlayOnline ID or password of any other User; (c) make any copy of or otherwise reproduce the Software; or, (d) use the Software or your PlayOnline user account to provide service bureau or time-sharing services (e.g., cybercafés), or for any other commercial purpose. The PlayOnline Service and the ability to access PlayOnline are for the personal use of Users only and may not be copied, resold, leased, transferred, exchanged or bartered.

Bolded new.

4.4 Revocation of User Rights. SEI shall reserve the right in its sole discretion to revoke or suspend your PlayOnline user account and your ability to use PlayOnline at any time without prior notice to you, particularly but not limited to if SEI should determine (in its sole discretion) or should reasonably believe that you are responsible for, or have participated in, any of the following (collectively, “Prohibited Activities”):

(a) Providing any false name, address or other registration information to SEI;

(b) Interfering with or obstructing the operation of the PlayOnline Service;

(c) Taking any action that has the effect of tarnishing or otherwise damaging the reputation or credibility of SEI or any of its business partners;

(d) Making available or otherwise using PlayOnline to transmit any Restricted Material;

(e) (Missing: Offering for Sale)Selling, purchasing, or exchanging, monetary compensation or other items of value for (1) (Was: any Software characters (or “avatars”))any in-Game characters, (2) any names, abilities, character features or other items or gear available within a game or obtained as a result of game play or through PlayOnline Service, (3) any points acquired as a result of using the Software or playing any online games in PlayOnline, or (4) access to any PlayOnline user account, regardless of whether such actions are mischaracterized as “selling the user’s time and effort”;

(f) Harassing, tormenting, intimidating, pestering, obstructing, taking advantage of, or any way hurting or damaging other Users or any third parties or their properties utilizing the PlayOnline Service;

(g) Committing, attempting to commit, or soliciting or attempting to solicit other to commit, any illegal, criminal, inappropriate, inconceivable, or any unwelcome acts;

(h) Impersonating or attempting to impersonate any employee of SEI or any SEI partner or affiliate, any other user of the Game or the PlayOnline Service, or any other person, in a manner intended to deceive or mislead any third party, or in any effort to access the account of another Game player or PlayOnline user; or

(i) Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices; or

(j) Violating any Rule.

In addition, SEI shall be entitled to terminate the account (immediately and without notice) of any User who (1) was previously suspended or terminated by SEI and who SEI believes (in SEI’s sole discretion) re-registered using different information in order to avoid such suspension or termination or (2) SEI believes (in its sole discretion), based on the User or other account information provided by such User now or at any time in the past (including, but not limited to, such User’s name, date of birth, telephone number, mailing address, e-mail address, and credit card account information), that such User is related to or assisting one or more Users who are responsible for, or have participated in, Prohibited Activities of any kind. You agree to indemnify and hold SEI harmless from and against any losses or damages sustained by SEI as a result of your engaging in any Prohibited Activities, and you further agree to reimburse SEI for any and all expenses incurred by SEI in remedying the effects of such action.

Bold new, underlined missing, italics changed.

5.3 Service Access. You are solely responsible for obtaining and maintaining, at your own expense, all equipment (such as modems, computers, or video game consoles) and communications services (including Internet access(Missing: Including, without limitation, long distance or local telephone services or other internet access)) necessary to access the PlayOnline Service, and for ensuring such equipment and services are compatible with all requirements of the PlayOnline Service.

Bolded new, underlined missing.

6.2 Limitation of Liability.

(a) You acknowledge that SEI has the right to monitor the use of your PlayOnline account to verify your compliance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement. You further acknowledge that, in the event that SEI suspects that you may not be in compliance with any of the terms of this Agreement, SEI may use any method permitted by applicable law to verify your compliance. If SEI believes (in its sole discretion) that you are not in compliance with any of the terms of this Agreement, SEI may, in addition to any other remedy available to SEI, immediately suspend or terminate your PlayOnline user account without any prior notice to you, and you hereby agree that such decision by SEI is final.

Bolded new

6.3 Consent to Disclosure. In order to protect SEI’s staff and customers, SEI may cooperate with Federal, State and Local Law Enforcement with or without the receipt of a formal subpoena or search warrant. You acknowledge and consent that SEI may provide your electronic communications and data, including emails and chat logs, to such government authorities, without any liability to you or any third party.

New

Also, Copyright Infringement Notification had a paragraph of contact information added.

7.4 No Waiver. No waiver by SEI of any term, provision or condition of this Agreement, whether by conduct or otherwise, in any one or more instances, shall be deemed to be or be construed as a further or continuing waiver of any such term, provision or condition or as a waiver of any other term, provision or condition of this Agreement. No SEI customer service representative is legally empowered to bind SEI to any amendment or waiver of the terms of this Agreement.

Bolded is new. None of the DNAS junk was in the FFXI PC Manual.

[Xanoxonax]

The EULA is a standard form contract/adhesion contract, anyways, which are open to legal scrutiny due to their "take it or leave it" basis, right?

[ringthree]

Yes, yes, and since they have full power, it doesn't matter what justifications you use for it, they'll just delete if they find out. Got it; the point wasn't a serious one to begin with. It just seems remarkably poorly worded if they were trying to, say, get eBay to disallow such sales... given that eBay allows loopholes pretty regularly, someone making that claim would probably keep the auction up. If they used the word, "described" or similar, without implying deceit on behalf of the seller and instead remaining objective about what is happening, then it would close a lot of wiggle room.

Unless mischaracterized has some sort of legalese importance that the lawyers drafting this would get right away?

You are reading the line incorrectly. "Regardless" makes the next phrase just a specific description of the previous clause. It in no way diminishes or limits the previous statement.

For example, your mother tells you that you can't have ice cream, regardless if you misrepresented that you have had your tonsils removed. That does not mean that you can have ice cream if you have actually had your tonsils removed. It means no ice cream, whether you lie about your tonsils or not.

Lern 2 :ashira:

The number of Jr. JDs in this thread is laughable. Beating Phoenix Wright does not mean you can add Esquire after your name.

[Talint]

The number of Jr. JDs in this thread is laughable. Beating Phoenix Wright does not mean you can add Esquire after your name.

http://www.itadakiproject.com/holdit.gif

And just why not?!

[Marootsoobutsu]

You are reading the line incorrectly. "Regardless" makes the next phrase just a specific description of the previous clause. It in no way diminishes or limits the previous statement.

For example, your mother tells you that you can't have ice cream, regardless if you misrepresented that you have had your tonsils removed. That does not mean that you can have ice cream if you have actually had your tonsils removed. It means no ice cream, whether you lie about your tonsils or not.

If you lie about your tonsils out, then obviously you are misrepresenting; if you have had your tonsils removed, then you are not misrepresenting, and thus the "regardless" is irrelevant, because the condition it specifies is irrelevant as well. If you got bored with a character and sell it, you are misrepresenting whether you are selling your time/effort... if you sit down deliberately to sell the result of your time and effort you are not misrepresenting that fact.

Considering SE has already said in the agreement that, unless you are a parent or guardian for a player between 13-17, no one else is supposed to ever have access to the account, period, giving the account information-- regardless whether you claim to be selling it or not-- is out; whatever else you claim, no account swapping. But, that doesn't mean someone giving that information is claiming to own it. I recognize that, however much time I have spent leveling my character, I do not own it. Never have. Read the disclaimer at an eBay account? They make no claim of ownership, describe ownership of the account, and clearly state that SE owns it, that SE can delete it for any or no reason, etc... They're in violation of the user agreement for giving access of the account to someone else, but someone who has specifically determined to sell their time/effort in the form of leveling a character, and doesn't claim ownership, isn't misrepresenting what they are doing; they are stating quite plainly what they are doing.

[ringthree]

You are reading the line incorrectly. "Regardless" makes the next phrase just a specific description of the previous clause. It in no way diminishes or limits the previous statement.

For example, your mother tells you that you can't have ice cream, regardless if you misrepresented that you have had your tonsils removed. That does not mean that you can have ice cream if you have actually had your tonsils removed. It means no ice cream, whether you lie about your tonsils or not.

If you lie about your tonsils out, then obviously you are misrepresenting; if you have had your tonsils removed, then you are not misrepresenting, and thus the "regardless" is irrelevant, because the condition it specifies is irrelevant as well. If you got bored with a character and sell it, you are misrepresenting whether you are selling your time/effort... if you sit down deliberately to sell the result of your time and effort you are not misrepresenting that fact.

Considering SE has already said in the agreement that, unless you are a parent or guardian for a player between 13-17, no one else is supposed to ever have access to the account, period, giving the account information-- regardless whether you claim to be selling it or not-- is out; whatever else you claim, no account swapping. But, that doesn't mean someone giving that information is claiming to own it. I recognize that, however much time I have spent leveling my character, I do not own it. Never have. Read the disclaimer at an eBay account? They make no claim of ownership, describe ownership of the account, and clearly state that SE owns it, that SE can delete it for any or no reason, etc... They're in violation of the user agreement for giving access of the account to someone else, but someone who has specifically determined to sell their time/effort in the form of leveling a character, and doesn't claim ownership, isn't misrepresenting what they are doing; they are stating quite plainly what they are doing.

Are you intentionally being thick?

[Marootsoobutsu]

Are you intentionally being thick?

ToS as a whole: you can't even share your log in information with your husband/wife/brother/dying father, let alone some stranger in Maine. It's not a question overall.

That clause: poorly worded; mischaracterized implies a knowledge of intention. "Described" or some other objective, rather than interpretive, word would have fit better. It was a line that amused me to a great extent, simply because it was unnecessary in it's clarification, and because as an unnecessary description, it attempted to define the motivation of people that they may or may not have had. I am not advocating that, because of that, you can sell passwords, or login info of any stripe; I am pointing out that the wording in that clause is... not as accurate as it could be.

[ringthree]

Are you intentionally being thick?

ToS as a whole: you can't even share your log in information with your husband/wife/brother/dying father, let alone some stranger in Maine. It's not a question overall.

That clause: poorly worded; mischaracterized implies a knowledge of intention. "Described" or some other objective, rather than interpretive, word would have fit better. It was a line that amused me to a great extent, simply because it was unnecessary in it's clarification, and because as an unnecessary description, it attempted to define the motivation of people that they may or may not have had. I am not advocating that, because of that, you can sell passwords, or login info of any stripe; I am pointing out that the wording in that clause is... not as accurate as it could be.

It is not poorly worded. You just have poor grammar and reading comprehension skills. That is what you are not understanding. The wording was completely fine and creates no loop holes. Phoenix Wright you are not.

[Marootsoobutsu]

I never said it created a loop hole; I stated, repeatedly now, that you cannot give or sell the password information at all. Period. It only creates a loophole if there is no universal statement, which there blatantly is.

But, having read your previous posts, I'll take "poor grammar and reading comprehension skills" from you as surety that I am doing something right. It is a clause with a word choice that *amused me* because it is *inferior to a simpler, more exact word to the problem at hand.* "The difference between the right word, and the almost right word, is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain. There is no problem with it grammatically; mischaracterized fits in there just fine. But if there is nothing *false* or *misleading* about what the individual is selling, then there is nothing mischaracterized in that statement; it's not a loophole, it's not poor grammar or reading comprehension... it's the bloody definition of the word. SE, for all their "we hold all the cards ha ha ha" still doesn't magically gain the ability to determine the motive and purpose behind what someone has done. They really don't have that power, in spite their seeming ability to look into the hearts of all players and stab those hearts repeatedly with poor updates.

Last, who the bloody hell is Phoenix Wright?

[ronin sparthos]

Last, who the bloody hell is Phoenix Wright?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ney-Trials.jpg

Its a game, a surprisingly good one at that.

[ringthree]

I never said it created a loop hole; I stated, repeatedly now, that you cannot give or sell the password information at all. Period. It only creates a loophole if there is no universal statement, which there blatantly is.

But, having read your previous posts, I'll take "poor grammar and reading comprehension skills" from you as surety that I am doing something right. It is a clause with a word choice that *amused me* because it is *inferior to a simpler, more exact word to the problem at hand.* "The difference between the right word, and the almost right word, is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain. There is no problem with it grammatically; mischaracterized fits in there just fine. But if there is nothing *false* or *misleading* about what the individual is selling, then there is nothing mischaracterized in that statement; it's not a loophole, it's not poor grammar or reading comprehension... it's the bloody definition of the word. SE, for all their "we hold all the cards ha ha ha" still doesn't magically gain the ability to determine the motive and purpose behind what someone has done. They really don't have that power, in spite their seeming ability to look into the hearts of all players and stab those hearts repeatedly with poor updates.

Last, who the bloody hell is Phoenix Wright?

/facepalm

[Lordwafik]

Last, who the bloody hell is Phoenix Wright?

You are DEAD to me.

[arus2001]

Couldn't all this technically be invalid due to a lack of contract at retailers and subsequent no return policies you'd pretty much find anywhere regarding opened software?

[Spekkio]

Couldn't all this technically be invalid due to a lack of contract at retailers and subsequent no return policies you'd pretty much find anywhere regarding opened software?

it's a click through agreement. SE would have a difficult time trying to prove that you had been the one to click it and not your 8 year old child. no contract signed by a minor can be valid that i know of (standard IANAL warning. if someone knows better, i'd be happy to admit i'm wrong.) thus, the "agreement" SE would be trying to enforce would be between them and a party incapable of agreeing to it. they'd be left with nothing. while i've never heard of such a defense being used, i'd love to see it tried out someday.