What do you consider cheap?

[Ramor]

Hate laser gun. My bro can kill me with it at 0% by slowly pushing me off the stage and I completely fucking hate it.

seriously, that's the most annoying item ever, i always get such a hopeless feeling when i'm getting hit with it

[Nirokun!]

i love the smoke ball thing (i have little colorful poofies around me <3)

the laser gun is harder to shield/cancel than melee, lame

[Elcura]

i love the smoke ball thing (i have little colorful poofies around me <3)

You're so gay I love it too :nikkei:

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

Sheik's forward A + ranged spam gets old fast when one on one with a slow character.

I got my ass handed to me... I was Ike, and a friend was Sheik. First match I only managed to kill 1 of 4 lives, and I think by the end I managed to do 3 out of 4; not quite a victory

Then I owned his ass Lucario bwahahaha

[AkashiXI]

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3132/fanpp4.jpg Spammers >

Hate hate hate hate! >

I was playing against Ryko and he locked me in one for about 80%. He said I can DI out of it but uh, no you can't<_<. If I get the fan I usually lock somebody in it for about 20~30% then do a Smash Attack so they can get out of it, then I'll throw the fan off the stage. I HATEEEEEEEEEEEE people who spam fans

[AkashiXI]

I'm pretty sure you could DI out of a fan in Melee, or at least after a while you'd automatically get out of range...but it's seemingly impossible to escape someone spamming the fan on you.

Good thing I hardly play with items on.

You could easily in Melee, since I used to play everyday for 3yrs+ and my friends loved fans, however in Brawl it's next to impossible to even move the person that's hitting you near a ledge so you can MAYBE escape.

[Zetah]

<Ryko> TOON LINK TOON LINK TOON LINK TOON LINK </Ryko>

[Ryko]

Hey, fuck toon link. I don't even think he's cheap I just think it's boring as hell to fight such a ridiculously overpowered character.

Yes, I can take someone down a stock in 4 swings and somehow I think something is overpowered. I'm weird like that.

[Nirokun!]

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3132/fanpp4.jpg Spammers >

Hate hate hate hate! >

I was playing against Ryko and he locked me in one for about 80%. He said I can DI out of it but uh, no you can't<_<. If I get the fan I usually lock somebody in it for about 20~30% then do a Smash Attack so they can get out of it, then I'll throw the fan off the stage. I HATEEEEEEEEEEEE people who spam fans

you can DI back and forth while holding shield and grab them to break it, but it still sucks

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

All my friend uses is Toon Link, and it gets old fast. What are some arguments you have towards it's "overpowered-ness?"

[AkashiXI]

Hey, fuck toon link. I don't even think he's cheap I just think it's boring as hell to fight such a ridiculously overpowered character.

Yes, I can take someone down a stock in 4 swings and somehow I think something is overpowered. I'm weird like that.

How is TL overpowered? j/c, I'm good with him (best char I can use) but I find Link just as strong sometimes

[Thulius]

Hey, fuck toon link. I don't even think he's cheap I just think it's boring as hell to fight such a ridiculously overpowered character.

Yes, I can take someone down a stock in 4 swings and somehow I think something is overpowered. I'm weird like that.

How is TL overpowered? j/c, I'm good with him (best char I can use) but I find Link just as strong sometimes

Short hopped double arrows pretty much shut down any character without projectiles, bigger ones especially. Great recovery, high speed, decent power, really his only weaknesses are mediocre range and light weight. Range hardly matters when you have 3 projectiles and can easily camp until your opponent approaches, so that just leaves light weight. It's not so much a problem if the player is aggressive, but campy toon links are a serious pain.

[Ryko]

Man it's not even toon link, it's a fucking minimarth with bombs. Short hop, neutral air 3 times, land up tilt 3x and continue until someone's dumb enough to land into it, if they dont just pelt them with SHDA until they get annoyed. Drop off the ledge, make it off the stage till you're a bubble, double jump and up B and still make it back. Somehow my ragnell (which is taller than toon link is) only outranges his sword at the very top and bottom of my front air, the rest of it is fair game (people say he has crappy range but he has a disjointed hitbox and it's deceptively long since he throws his body into the moves, much like ike does). Wickedly strong, easily spammable aerials (a DJ off the ledge can give you 5 back airs before you need to recover) This is just more punctuated by the fact that normal link eats such a copious amount of dickbags by comparison.

[Lindstrom]

Don't think Ike has this problem but I hate when I'm fighting someone like Toon Link or Pikachu or Kirby or Ness who is short and sometimes I can't hit them with normal shit like a smash attack or something, though it's mostly in places with ramps or small height differences.

Ryko sounds like either you play against a lot of faggots or your characters naturally are at a big disadvantage to characters who have projectiles and that's something you can't deal with

[Elcura]

Ryko plays Ike, who is naturally at a disadvantage to characters with projectiles.

[Ryko]

The projectile spam isn't really an issue since I play a lot of people who don't really use SHDA aside from disruption and not to rack up damage, I'm more annoyed with the range and speed of his melee moves rather than his projectiles.

[Meian]

The projectile spam isn't really an issue since I play a lot of people who don't really use SHDA aside from disruption and not to rack up damage, I'm more annoyed with the range and speed of his melee moves rather than his projectiles.

Ike has it better in terms of this just no projectiles to go with it XD

[Ryko]

The projectile spam isn't really an issue since I play a lot of people who don't really use SHDA aside from disruption and not to rack up damage, I'm more annoyed with the range and speed of his melee moves rather than his projectiles.

Ike has it better in terms of this just no projectiles to go with it XD

Ike's fastest moves do not have range (except his front tilt) and the speed comparison is stupid to make, my fastest smash takes about twice as long to come out as any of link's and due to the way he holds his ragnell close to him (angled downward so it only goes slightly past his feet since he makes a wide stance on doing it) when he does it the range is pretty much the same as TL's (who reaches out and holds his sword flat). My back air hits in front of me slightly so it goes out only slightly past TL's which can be used about 5x as much in a double jump so...

Not to mention the second I clash with the first of TL's front smash I'm pretty much dead unless I shield immediately because hitting A again gives him a killshot.

[Lindstrom]

Ryko plays Ike, who is naturally at a disadvantage to characters with projectiles.

Really? His avatar and sig made made me think he was all about Yoshi

I was trying to establish that his characters are just kinda screwed against someone like Toon Link and he'll either have to figure out something tricky and clever or change his character if he wants to beat people who seem to know what they're doing. I don't care much for playing Ike or Marth myself but when I played Roy in Melee I would sometimes rush or jump at someone and just counter, though I'd imagine he's probably considered something like that knowing how much thought he puts into his performance.

[Meian]

The projectile spam isn't really an issue since I play a lot of people who don't really use SHDA aside from disruption and not to rack up damage, I'm more annoyed with the range and speed of his melee moves rather than his projectiles.

Ike has it better in terms of this just no projectiles to go with it XD

Ike's fastest moves do not have range (except his front tilt) and the speed comparison is stupid to make, my fastest smash takes about twice as long to come out as any of link's and due to the way he holds his ragnell close to him (angled downward so it only goes slightly past his feet since he makes a wide stance on doing it) when he does it the range is pretty much the same as TL's (who reaches out and holds his sword flat). My back air hits in front of me slightly so it goes out only slightly past TL's which can be used about 5x as much in a double jump so...

Not to mention the second I clash with the first of TL's front smash I'm pretty much dead unless I shield immediately because hitting A again gives him a killshot.

Ah, I meant to say the speed for someone of Ike's character not the comparison in speed vs. Toon Link. The arrow spamming is what bothers me most about Toon Link but other than that o_O When I use him, I stick to boomerang since the arrow seems too abusive.