Elemental Seal Question

[Shuemue]

I can also testify to the fact that sleep/ga 2 is far more accurate than sleep/ga, and that accuracy is directly tied to elemental skill (duh), as my effectiveness at sleeping dynamis mobs with sleep/ga increased significantly as I stacked more & more elemental skill.

Got any numbers to back that up? Or have you typed elemental and meant to type enfeebling?

[Ashira]

I can also testify to the fact that sleep/ga 2 is far more accurate than sleep/ga, and that accuracy is directly tied to elemental skill (duh), as my effectiveness at sleeping dynamis mobs with sleep/ga increased significantly as I stacked more & more elemental skill.

Got any numbers to back that up? Or have you typed elemental and meant to type enfeebling?

He said enfeebling next paragraph.. so I sure hope so. >.>

[Raineer]

Spekkio seems to understand what I'm getting at. I'm fairly certain that there are fewer divisions of partial resist for enfeebles compared to nukes, and I'm also certain that the rates of each resist "tier" are not uniform. But that's pretty much beside the point. Partial resists on debuffs happen more than most people notice because often the mob either doesn't live long enough to find out, people are too busy to notice an early wear-off, or whatever other reasons you can dream up. Any more detailed estimate of partial resist rate cap than has already been discussed here would certainly require a long, involved test. Perhaps it's time to sleep some trains.

Sleep duration is determined by skill anyways

Aside from the partial resist mechanic, and the fact that low skill will result in more resists (full and partial), this is just plain wrong. An unresisted sleep is 60 seconds, and an unresisted sleep II is 90 seconds.

So, aside from the fact that what I typed is right, it is wrong? I know the durations of sleep, thanks.
I am impressed that you managed to quote the first half of line, where in the second half I state "an RDM+ES with Sleepga would surely have guaranteed 60 seconds." So to reiterate:

Lower enfeebling skill leads to resists
Resists lower duration
Duration is affected by enfeebling skill
Character height is affected by elemental skill in inverse proportion

What portion of this is wrong again?

[Spekkio]

Spekkio seems to understand what I'm getting at. I'm fairly certain that there are fewer divisions of partial resist for enfeebles compared to nukes, and I'm also certain that the rates of each resist "tier" are not uniform. But that's pretty much beside the point. Partial resists on debuffs happen more than most people notice because often the mob either doesn't live long enough to find out, people are too busy to notice an early wear-off, or whatever other reasons you can dream up. Any more detailed estimate of partial resist rate cap than has already been discussed here would certainly require a long, involved test. Perhaps it's time to sleep some trains.

Sleep duration is determined by skill anyways

Aside from the partial resist mechanic, and the fact that low skill will result in more resists (full and partial), this is just plain wrong. An unresisted sleep is 60 seconds, and an unresisted sleep II is 90 seconds.

So, aside from the fact that what I typed is right, it is wrong? I know the durations of sleep, thanks.
I am impressed that you managed to quote the first half of line, where in the second half I state "an RDM+ES with Sleepga would surely have guaranteed 60 seconds." So to reiterate:

Lower enfeebling skill leads to resists
Resists lower duration
Duration is affected by enfeebling skill
Character height is affected by elemental skill in inverse proportion

What portion of this is wrong again?

heh. when you put it that way, what you say becomes a lot more clear. i think some of us, myself included, misunderstood your implication as the maximum sleep duration is a function of the enfeebling skill of the caster which all of us would agree is wrong i think. rephrased as you wrote above to indicate that you were not referencing the maximum, but the expected duration (since any resists caused by a lack of skill will affect the expected duration) then yes, what you said is entirely correct.

[Vxsote]

Well, to argue the semantics of your writing is probably a waste of time, but I'm going to do it anyhow.

There is a big difference between "Sleep duration is determined by skill" and "Duration is affected by enfeebling skill". The former indicates a deterministic function, meaning that a certain skill will produce a certain duration, period. Some people will take things a step further and assume (incorrectly) that since skill is variable over a wide range of values, duration also has a wide range of values. The revised statement indicates only a relationship, and while potentially misleading without proper context, is not "incorrect".

Bottom line: say exactly what you mean, or don't get your panties in a bunch when someone tells you what you said is wrong.

[Alistaire]

I don't think ES is capped at 95% personally.

Same here. I've done enough ks bcnm manaburns to know that ES Sleep doesn't miss 1 out of 20 times.

[Suiram]

I don't think ES is capped at 95% personally.

Same here. I've done enough ks bcnm manaburns to know that ES Sleep doesn't miss 1 out of 20 times.

This is missing the point, and was already discussed in this thread.

If a BLM ES -ga3s 20 mobs and 19 of them take 800 damage, one of them takes 400 damage, you would say they had 95% accuracy for that cast, not that they had 100% accuracy because no target took 100 damage.

Analogously for enfeebles, if you ES sleepga2 20 mobs and all of them sleep, 19 for the full duration and one wakes up early, you would not say that you had 100% accuracy for that either, but rather 95% as well.

[Raineer]

Well, to argue the semantics of your writing is probably a waste of time, but I'm going to do it anyhow.

There is a big difference between "Sleep duration is determined by skill" and "Duration is affected by enfeebling skill". The former indicates a deterministic function, meaning that a certain skill will produce a certain duration, period. Some people will take things a step further and assume (incorrectly) that since skill is variable over a wide range of values, duration also has a wide range of values. The revised statement indicates only a relationship, and while potentially misleading without proper context, is not "incorrect".

Bottom line: say exactly what you mean, or don't get your panties in a bunch when someone tells you what you said is wrong.

Attack affects damage done
Accuracy affects damage done
People do not feel the need to explain those.

And I don't wear panties.

I made the assumption people in the thread understood sleep is fixed duration, in assuming this stating "Sleep duration is determined by skill" is 100% correct, whether you include your semantics or not.

[Vxsote]

in assuming this stating "Sleep duration is determined by skill" is 100% correct, whether you include your semantics or not.

No. The relationship between skill and duration, via the partial resist mechanic, is non-deterministic. It is therefore specifically wrong to state that skill "determines" duration.

Never mind that when you see things like "Did it have shell on?" in the thread, your assumption has to be questioned in the first place.