Flaw in "Updated" User Agreement?

[ringthree]

here's the real question: when will it actually be challenged in court?

Here is where it becomes interesting to me.

People keep laughing about challenging MMORPG's in court, but the day is coming (and quickly).

Perhaps the first will not be a result of FFXI, but online RPGs are becoming huge business and can not be ignored forever by the court system.

No, it won't. It's a licensing agreement, which have been handled for years and have stable precedence in the state and federal court systems. Just because it's an MMO or a "big business" now doesn't mean that the nature of the law that governs the agreement that you make to play the game will change one iota.

The only thing that we could hope will change is the lax enforcement of violations of the EULA and the copyright of the game manufacturers.

[Aksannyi]

They can probably get better lawyers than you. Thousands of them. With kclubs.

BWAHAHAHAHHAHA

This post made my day. Lawyer with kclub = scary motherfucker!

[Spekkio]

here's the real question: when will it actually be challenged in court?

Here is where it becomes interesting to me.

People keep laughing about challenging MMORPG's in court, but the day is coming (and quickly).

Perhaps the first will not be a result of FFXI, but online RPGs are becoming huge business and can not be ignored forever by the court system.

No, it won't. It's a licensing agreement, which have been handled for years and have stable precedence in the state and federal court systems. Just because it's an MMO or a "big business" now doesn't mean that the nature of the law that governs the agreement that you make to play the game will change one iota.

The only thing that we could hope will change is the lax enforcement of violations of the EULA and the copyright of the game manufacturers.

the question of will it be challenged in court is irrelevant. i have no doubt that at some point, someone will bring a lawsuit against SE for the loss of their char. the trouble is, what percentage of players would be willing or capable of trying to bring suit against SE? anyone playing as a minor i would imagine would have difficulty attempting legal action (but don't quote me on that. the real lawyers can shoot me down if i'm wrong and they know better.) and i doubt mommy and daddy are going to hire a lawyer to get junior's mithra back.

of those who are not minors, how many have the time and money required to seek suit against SE in what will likely be an uphill battle? there's a significant risk associated with trying to tackle SE, not just in that it may be a difficult case to win, but you're sure not going to be able to get a lawyer on contingency basis. i've never met a lawyer who would accept a kclub as a valid payment for their services (well, except for me if i were a lawyer. ^^) therefore, the legal fees associated with such an attempt, not to mention the titanic time investment (hey, boss, can i have a week off? i need to go to court to get my taru back from the evil SE.) would make the majority of suits untenable to even try unless you could find a way to be able to acquire significant fees in damages if you were successful. the question is not really if it will be tested, but in how many instances.

the above is all presented with the caveat that i have no legal training so any or all of the above may be shot down by someone with more background. regardless, i think what i have typed stems enough from logic that it should hold up under at least some modest scrutiny.

[Quizno]

That is what class action law suits are for!

Like I said, it won't necessarily be FFXI. However, the very nature of MMORPG's is changing and will continue to change.

There are already "2nd Life" type meeting places and it is only a matter of time before games become more encompassing.

Perhaps it will simply come down to people refusing to play games where they don't own what they work for... in which case companies like SE will have to evolve.

Personally, I want to play a game where I can sell what I have worked for. This creates issues as real world economics become blurred in the game. Areas like china, india, africa, and south america in this scenario will always have an advantage because $1 an hour will not cut if for me, but it is a fortune in some countries... that will just require a more robust economic system in game. There is a lot of money at stake, I'm sure they can hire someone to figure it out =p

[#686578]

.

[Genosync]

Forget kclubs.

Real men wear red visor masks and hurl steaming hot mugs of coffee across the courtroom.

And they use whips.

And are completely helpless, emotionally broken down emo losers which characters we love anyway because they're awesome. (yes, edgy)

Or they play air guitar in the courtroom and it actually makes music.

By the way, AV: Attorney at Law wouldn't end in him Manafonting and Meteoring the whole damn room. That would be AV as a judge, passing judgement.

[Quizno]

Why dont you play Second Life?

Wow, didn't see that one coming

Pretty sure I've found 90% of what I'm looking for in FFXI... Just looking for that last 10%.

[Howard Roark]

So, I am not saying that we should protest, though we should.

wut

bah beaten, i totally saw that too

[hotpiercedguy]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I would never hire a lawyer that was referred to by her friends as "homegirl".

[Tubbers]

By the way, AV: Attorney at Law wouldn't end in him Manafonting and Meteoring the whole damn room. That would be AV as a judge, passing judgement.

Wrong, that would be AV as anything, being AV.

[orson]

Why dont you play Second Life?

Wow, didn't see that one coming

Pretty sure I've found 90% of what I'm looking for in FFXI... Just looking for that last 10%.

Ya it's not like you can't cyber in FFXI.

[Max™]

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...ou_Carcolh.jpg

Lou Carcolh, Attorney at Law.

[#686578]

.

[Haily]

The best part was where they said they could now legally anally rape with a rusty shovel anyone that tries to sell their account.

Wait, I'm the only one that read that part? I swear it was in there. It's in the ALL CAPS part isn't it?

Not about selling your account, but your butt may have felt a bit sore after reading this part (in caps):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...e/noreason.jpg

[Zacas1]

I still think the whole clause on how SE isn't responsible for any downtime in service due to floods, fires, < insert random other natural disasters here>, "Acts of God", or anything else out of SE's control...
The whole "Act of God" part made me laugh... gee... vagueness ftw? They didn't need to list half of the things they listed... all cause they're not responsible for any "Acts of God"

Not to mention... as a person in my LS said... it's a slap in the face of those that play that don't believe in God >.>

[Izzy]

Not to mention... as a person in my LS said... it's a slap in the face of those that play that don't believe in God >.>

Do you realize what you've just done?

[Solarus]

I did hear an amusing shout conversation about this in WG the other day. Some people thought that this change in rules meant was to allow SE to spy on you. Their theory was that SE doing this means they "own" anything you say, meaning that if you think of some great idea for a game and say it, SE owns it because it's in their logs! Big brother is watching, amirite?

But seriously, I don't see why people see this rule as a BAD thing. Yes, ok, it would indeed suck if SE decided to repossess your account and never let you have access to it again. Is this likely to happen? No. We all know SE were/still are pretty incompetent with handling the recent stolen accounts issue, but they are at least now attempting to (very slowly) return accounts. It's not SE that's saying "that account is ours now". SE are not using the ToS as an excuse to deprive normal players of their accounts because they feel like it. Of course, if you ARE botting/RMTing/hacking/whatever then it probably is bad news, but is it really any different to before?

I was kinda surprised to see this sort of thing wasn't actually in there already actually. Laws about electronic data are pretty vague, and it's generally been considered the case that SE "owns" your account, your gil, your items, as it is all data stored on their servers. Of course, I don't know the specifics of the laws, especially not american ones, so maybe it is true that you do have some ownership of it. So, I guess this is SE's way of saying that it really is their data, and you have to agree to that.

But like I said, this isn't a bad thing. This is an extra step to try and prevent RMT, and I don't see how that can be viewed as a bad thing.

[Spekkio]

I still think the whole clause on how SE isn't responsible for any downtime in service due to floods, fires, < insert random other natural disasters here>, "Acts of God", or anything else out of SE's control...
The whole "Act of God" part made me laugh... gee... vagueness ftw? They didn't need to list half of the things they listed... all cause they're not responsible for any "Acts of God"

Not to mention... as a person in my LS said... it's a slap in the face of those that play that don't believe in God >.>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_God
it's a well defined legal term, not SE suggesting that kirin will come down and smite their servers with his mighty heat breath.

[Shinsei]

I still think the whole clause on how SE isn't responsible for any downtime in service due to floods, fires, < insert random other natural disasters here>, "Acts of God", or anything else out of SE's control...
The whole "Act of God" part made me laugh... gee... vagueness ftw? They didn't need to list half of the things they listed... all cause they're not responsible for any "Acts of God"

Not to mention... as a person in my LS said... it's a slap in the face of those that play that don't believe in God >.>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_God
it's a well defined legal term, not SE suggesting that kirin will come down and smite their servers with his mighty heat breath.

yes, like spekkio said, it is a legal term, they use that same legal term at my company.

It really doesnt mean "hey, god is going to smite you blablabla"....it's really just refers to natural mishaps, such as what was listed, flood, hurricanes, tornados, etc. There is nothing wrong with what was said by SE.

[Zacas1]

I still think the whole clause on how SE isn't responsible for any downtime in service due to floods, fires, < insert random other natural disasters here>, "Acts of God", or anything else out of SE's control...
The whole "Act of God" part made me laugh... gee... vagueness ftw? They didn't need to list half of the things they listed... all cause they're not responsible for any "Acts of God"

Not to mention... as a person in my LS said... it's a slap in the face of those that play that don't believe in God >.>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_God
it's a well defined legal term, not SE suggesting that kirin will come down and smite their servers with his mighty heat breath.

yes, like spekkio said, it is a legal term, they use that same legal term at my company.

It really doesnt mean "hey, god is going to smite you blablabla"....it's really just refers to natural mishaps, such as what was listed, flood, hurricanes, tornados, etc. There is nothing wrong with what was said by SE.

Well it still made me laugh... I just don't see the point of listing a bunch of natural disasters, which are generally considered Acts of God, and then listing Acts of God by itself... followed by they're not responsible for anything else out of SE's control. They just want to cover their rear for the time an employee sneezes(tornado) and knocks a drink(flood) all over one of their main computers and causes a fire...