BST vs Vrtra

[neuroticelite]

This is my first post here I think? But anyways, tomorrow my linkshell is planning a run at Vrtra. We are primarily a BST/SMN linkshell. We are generally pretty good at what we do, we've killed Kirin 13 times and Jormungand 3 times, all BST/SMN style and all with decently impressive times considering how we kill stuff. We've killed Jormungand in 57 minutes and Kirin in 45 it being kited/undamaged until all four summons were killed. Now I know I know, "BST vs Vrtra? LOL," but don't laugh quite yet. I myself have done extensive testing and have come up with a few methods in which we could go about this. I was set on one method for the last two weeks, but we're less than a day away and I'm thinking of changing the method.

I do have a little bit of Wyrm experience. I've killed Jormungand a few times using conventional strat and was in add parties for both Tiamat and Vrtra, since I'm BST and SAM and both those don't fit that well for main alliance for either. Nonetheless, I at least have a generally decent idea of what I'm doing, but I admit I'm not expert.

Now, I have arranged an alliance with another linkshell. We pretty much are covered on add party and summon party. We should have more than enough BLMs, MNKs, SAMs, NINs, and misc. support jobs to take care of everything besides Vrtra himself.

My original plan was to straight tank him with pets like we would with Jormungand or Kirin, but the more I think about it the more I realize it may be next to impossible due to Flail risks and Wing spam, especially sub-20%. Believe it or not, Courier Carrie is a pretty good DD, but most people don't realize this. Courier Carrie deals decent damage, except you don't have to worry about it dying, about curing it or keeping it alive, and most importantly raising it.

Fact is, a single Courier Carrie will parse at 300-400+ damage a minute on Vrtra. Now, combine this with the fact that you have 11 other Carries bashing on it as well and you're looking at 3,000-4,500 damage a minute, possibly comparable to a 6 SMN Vrtra at the minimum.

This parse below was around 30 seconds long and as you can see, I'm not exaggerating. 6 Carries parsed at 1158 damage in about 30 seconds with 86% accuracy with one even Blinded. If you double the Carries you're looking at 4,632 damage a minute, but I rounded down to 3,000 since they may not connect as much as it is being kited. Even with say 3,000 damage a minute, minus 500 for Regen which is a hugely over-estimate just for argument sake, you're looking at say maybe 2,500 damage a minute which is received by rounding down incredibly where ever possible. At say, what 100,000 HP, another over estimate, that even comes out to 40 minutes for a kill, so lets say an hour to kill.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7056/vrtra3so7.png

Think of when you do it with SMNs. Damage is never constant. You might have to make extra laps to allow for SMNs to regain MP, or make an extra lap to get everyones HP up, or something. The difference with BSTs is that it is 100% constant. If they get slept, you pop Reward and they're 100% good to go again. Since they are not getting hit with anything besides Wing, when it does get off, you don't have to worry about them surviving long enough, since they 99.9% will last more than long enough.

My real question is, just how difficult is it the kite Vrtra? Compared to say kiting maybe Kirin or something? Obviously harder, but how hard? We have summons covered, adds covered, Summoners (if we do in fact take the traditional SMN route), and plenty of Beastmasters. The other linkshell has pretty skilled PLDs, maybe not the "server elite" but pretty good. They're mainly Sea/Sky/etc. and have taken JoL and the like so these aren't just some noobs that we picked up in Jeuno. How many would be needed in the kite party? PLD x2-3, RDM, WHM, BRD? We would also have the BSTs at a camp who could help on heals as the PLDs made laps. Now with 12 pets hitting on Vrtra constantly, I know this will obviously affect TP. Would this be manageable or not?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Belkin]

Well the problem with kiting and having all those Carries giving it TP is the risk of PLD's eating full breath. Its very manageable to kite though, a single tank PT can handle it as long as all the adds are taken care of.

[Fng]

If you are going to kite it while having CC's follow behind, eventually CC will pull hate from the PLD and flail it. My thoughts is when the PLD takes damage / breath / wing, one of the CC's will be momentarily on the top of the hate list, and flail

[neuroticelite]

Well we should have as many as 3 PLDs to hold hate off them. They don't do a lot of damage singularly, its just when you get a bunch of them. Each is only hitting for like 20-40 damage most of the time.

[Pendas]

I demand you post this fight on Youtube. I would love to see Vrtra get smacked down by 18 little cargo crabs nibbling at its knees.

[Shuemue]

One of the most fun things I ever did in FFXI was being allowed to be the token BLM in a BST & SMN alliance killing Tiamat. I lost so much xp, I was getting drawn in with just Bio II, so I just went nuts and spammed flood and waterga III.

GL with this, I bet you can do it.

[siyual]

Well, we managed to get it to 62% after a few attempts. We settled with straight tanking as opposed to kiting as much as we could. Unfortunately, it was CFH in some confusion, but when we go after it a bit later we should be fine.

I only got 1 good picture from the fight since I was on add control.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38...l/Vrtraend.png

Obviously at the end of the fight with CFH status. The damage from CC drained his HP rather fast; we got it to 62 after about 30 to 45 min max.

We can take it down easily, just need to avoid simple mistakes, and perhaps less people for better communication.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/Siyual/LSMax.png

I think we had close to 80 people there, and couldn't fit all people in the same LS lol.

Another thing we found is, he can glitch inside the wall at an un-actable angle, were you can't see if from any angle to do anything to him, but he'll sure enough spam flail ._.;

Meh, all in all, it went very well for the first attempt at BST/SMN kill.

And just for the lulz, the GM who was chatting with me throughout the entire fight. Don't think they've seen a Pet LS fight before lol.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38.../GMatVrtra.png

Neur can prolly summarize better, I suck at English lol.

[Lordwafik]

I think we had close to 80 people there, and couldn't fit all people in the same LS lol.

holy shit

[Liquidedust]

I think we had close to 80 people there, and couldn't fit all people in the same LS lol.

holy shit

Should note we actually were 2 Linkshells there as well one regular job linkshell and one pet linkshell

Think the end count was something like 20-25 BSTs, and 12-15 SMNs that was swapped in and out of main pet ally on our last try.

The other people were on regular jobs killing pops and summons to get them off the main ally.

While a little messy in the end due to Vrtra basically flailing every time he summoned a mob we did get Vrtra down to 64% before someone accidently CFH (not mentioning names he feel bad enough).

Last 15 minutes of battle, before the CFH, was actually decently controlled and shaved off 10-12% of Vrtras hp alone in that period of time.

(Eridgarr on Ramuh)

[Shuemue]

Try again, with less people. You could handle summons with a decent BLM party, and room pops with any random party with 2-3 dd's.

[Titanss]

80 people ..jesus reminds me of a old Kazoku attempt. They died too

[Jaybar]

If you plan on doing this, you must make sure your tanks are capable of straight tanking. As said earlier, it's too risky to kite while giving TP.

80 people...uhh overkill+lag?

[Howard Roark]

we did smn pet only with pld kite and blms taking vrtra's pets, and mnk meripos killing regular mobs, we had a total of 40-45 tops and even that was laughable, really coulda done it with less

that being said the avatar dmg wasn't the greatest for combatting the regen and it took over 3hrs due to only 4 smn's being logged on at some points (we later had 6-8)

[Liquidedust]

If you plan on doing this, you must make sure your tanks are capable of straight tanking. As said earlier, it's too risky to kite while giving TP.

80 people...uhh overkill+lag?

Yeah we pretty much killed ourselves with our own lag . . . .

[siyual]

If you plan on doing this, you must make sure your tanks are capable of straight tanking. As said earlier, it's too risky to kite while giving TP.

80 people...uhh overkill+lag?

What tank? It's a pet burn...

Regardless, we did fine on damage, just had to call it quits early due to mistakes is all. And seriously... if you're getting lagged by all the pets fighting Vrtra, you're standing in the wrong spot.

[Lordwafik]

If you plan on doing this, you must make sure your tanks are capable of straight tanking. As said earlier, it's too risky to kite while giving TP.

80 people...uhh overkill+lag?

What tank? It's a pet burn...

Regardless, we did fine on damage, just had to call it quits early due to mistakes is all. And seriously... if you're getting lagged by all the pets fighting Vrtra, you're standing in the wrong spot.

There is no right spot to stand lag free when there are 80 people at Vrtra.

[orson]

Wyrm fights really start at 20% so no offense or anything but that's really when you'll prove whether or not you can pull it off.

[HadesChubbs]

Vrtra isn't exactly a tough fight, and I realize you want to try something new with this pet burn, but why so many ppl? What are you expecting to get out of it?

5m manteel / 80 ppl

its like farming fire crystals

[fishstix]

Pretty sure they're not looking for profit, rather fun/accomplishment? but yeah, it's not just 80 people either, it's 80+ however many avatars when considering lag :3 My very first vrtra attempt had 65 people, we wiped before we even started with someone aggroing vrtra by trying to get a screenshot.

[HadesChubbs]

I understand the accomplishment part, but is it really an accomplishment if you have 80+ ppl?

I'd say about.. 18(vrtra) 6(summons) 6(adds)

now THAT would be a pretty sweet accomplishment

80? Thats like 18(Vrtra) 18(summons) 18(adds) 26(O_O)