War/Dnc the tank that couldn't

[Shuemue]

Apples and Oranges. The games may both be MMORPGs but after that, they're pretty different.

[#686578]

Maybe one day, oh, you know, balance their fucking game? How about they make defense worthwhile, recode the enmity loss from being hit and add some real challenge to FFXI.

I don't know what game you're playing but FFXI is a lot harder than WOW and D2. I can't comment on EQ though because i've never played it.

D2? Are you talking about fucking diablo 2?...

And I don't think any of the people that say FFXI is harder than wow actually have a 70. Yeah, leveling up in wow is easier, but mainly only for the reason that you can solo/quest exp much more efficiently, endgame is a different story. Raid boss fights in wow are typically much longer, much more complicated, and easy to fuck up. Not to mention the issue of gear progression, you actually have to have good gear for the level of raid you're doing, unless the rest of your group is pretty good and can pull your slack. In FFXI you can do anything in the game wearing AF and some cheap craftables.

The only things that are "hard" in ffxi are not hard for the issue of difficulty, the are hard due to luck, bad drop rates, or they are AV.

So basically what you're saying is that WoW is all gear no skill and FFXI is all skill no gear? Shit I thought we already knew that.

Additionally:

Apples and Oranges. The games may both be MMORPGs but after that, they're pretty different.

[isladar]

Shit, my DNC sub is only level 8. I KNEW I'D NEVER CUT IT IN ENDGAME.

[Seraph]

I am all for trying new approaches to old problems, but eventually in my mind that little voice always eventually starts asking: "Why do people demand to try to push open the door that says 'pull'?"

Sure, you can break it off the hinges, and few will say that it's impossible...but it's so much easier to just pull. I guess that just gets some people off. If at first you don't succeed, try try again. If you try again and don't succeed, you're doing it wrong...

[Darus Grey]

I used to be pro-war tank back in the blood-tanking days.

Then I moved the fuck on with the rest of the game.

[Zekyr]

but for all intensive proposes they are fairly equal

Say it with me

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND MOTHERFUCKING PURPOSES

Intensive purposes makes no god damn sense, you baboon

[fantasticdan]

So basically what you're saying is that WoW is all gear no skill and FFXI is all skill no gear? Shit I thought we already knew that.

Endgame raids in wow past kara are harder than anything in FFXI, even when you outgear them. Yeah stuff like ZA, gruuls, etc. is easy if people have decent gear and know what they're doing, however, those fights are still far more complicated than anything FFXI has to offer, and require much more coordination between players. I'm guessing you've never actually played wow at endgame? I've never even stepped into stuff like black temple or sunwell. I'm not trying to say wow is awesome, I don't play either it or ffxi anymore really, but as far as difficulty level/learning curve for endgame content, ffxi is just a lot simpler and easier.

Apples and Oranges. The games may both be MMORPGs but after that, they're pretty different.

They are both popular games from the same genre, and due to the amount of time it generally takes to play any of them seriously, most wouldn't want to play multiple mmos at the same time. So why wouldn't people compare them? Not sure what you're trying to get at.

soloing certain mobs is pretty difficult and takes various levels of skills, the thing about these games is that you can always give yourself an extra challenge for more fun

Oh I agree for the most part, soloing and low-manning things are one of the only things I enjoyed in ffxi. However even a lot of that stuff just comes down to repetition, patience, and to some extent luck.

[Shuemue]

Apples and Oranges. The games may both be MMORPGs but after that, they're pretty different.

They are both popular games from the same genre, and due to the amount of time it generally takes to play any of them seriously, most wouldn't want to play multiple mmos at the same time. So why wouldn't people compare them? Not sure what you're trying to get at.

I play both, as do many others. I'm simply saying that the play-style in both games is very different and that to compare them directly is futile.

[ronin sparthos]

The Hardest Events in FFXI:

Zilart: Balanced Party Ark Angels (lol)

CoP: Mission line pre-promy nerf / pre-mission nerf. / Standard Vrtra.

ToAU: Wing 3 Einherjar / Some of the FL Assaults

WotG: Dungeon Raid Campaign when no one shows up >.>

[Howard Roark]

If I were considering anything/dnc it would be NIN. Aside from that it would have to be on a mob with AOE like wing so you could cure your entire pt and not just yourself. Aside from that you would still want full enmity gear rather than DD gear.

Wouldnt mind seing it tried, but would probably be very situational even if it did work. Like I said if your whole pt aint taking damage then it wont work, otherwise WAR/DNC would be like a PLD/war with only cure 2, and no shadows.

I guess it sounds a little bit too much like Im disagreeing with you even though you came to the same conclusion, that it wouldnt work well.

divine waltz is spectacularly crappy, curaga 2 it isn't; a pld's cure 4 will heal a single target for more than a divine waltz will for an entire pt

[RKenshin]

Apples and Oranges. The games may both be MMORPGs but after that, they're pretty different.

They are both popular games from the same genre, and due to the amount of time it generally takes to play any of them seriously, most wouldn't want to play multiple mmos at the same time. So why wouldn't people compare them? Not sure what you're trying to get at.

He's not saying why people wouldn't compare them, but why people shouldn't. Or at least, why people shouldn't while feeling they can with any kind of true accuracy outside of their own opinion. The point is simply as he said; apples and oranges. This saying means that outside of opinion, you can't compare them. You may like the texture of apples more than oranges, and think they're better because of this, but that sure doesn't make it a fact.

Similarly you can't compare the difficulty of killing Jorgy with 6 people with killing some random NM in WoW with 6. Nor can you compare instances in FF that are typically ran with 12-25 people with instances in WoW that are typically ran with what, 25-50 people? And you really can't compare the rankings of difficulty between them when the gameplay and strategies are vastly different.

You can have an opinion, but comparing them directly is simply that; your opinion. Your opinion may go one way, but everyone else's may go another way. Either case it is not based on facts, and therefor it's rather pointless to compare them. It's like, again, comparing apples to oranges.

Furthermore, in general the posters here are biased in favor of everything being easier; and as such evaluating the difficulties of what FF has to offer based off of posts here is silly. More than any other board posters here will often be of higher achievements and stature, and as such our outlook on what's easy/difficult doesn't reflect the average. The average linkshell can't even clear T1 Einherjar, yet you ask the same question here and you'll get a lol. All the while some people will even say beating Jorgy with 6-8 is easy, but if every group of people with corresponding 75 jobs that could do it tried to, I guarantee 99% would lose horribly. Which, again, would hardly classify to the general FF audience as easy.

[Howard Roark]

Considering SE effectively stated that WAR/DNC was meant to be an xp mob tank

Where?

In one of the earlier interviews, SE mentioned adding abilities to make an existing job more tank-viable for exp parties, but that it would not be a good choice for HNMs. It is evident that Retaliation + dancer sub makes Warrior a viable xp tank, complete with two provokes and self-curing abilities.

Of course, this wouldn't be the first time that the dev team designed something one way and it ends up being used another. Always possible that WAR/DNC might become mainstreamish sometime in the future for HNM tanking.

QQ this is the only post in this thread that said what I want to hear QQ. PS - QQ

I regret not asking why the hell you're showing off n body on your war, with axe/swd no less. I saw this a week ago and thought, nah he probably just like the looks, he couldn't possibly be retarded.

[orson]

but for all intensive proposes they are fairly equal

Say it with me

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND MOTHERFUCKING PURPOSES

Intensive purposes makes no god damn sense, you baboon

You're a fucking moron, go back to watching Spike TV and it's shitty short lived TV shows.

All intensive purposes is called a oral transformation in language everyone knows what I'm saying so fuck off, you're not my 6th grade grammar teacher.

BTW fuck wad, God is capitalized and usually people end their sentences with periods.

[Vistani]

but for all intensive proposes they are fairly equal

Say it with me

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND MOTHERFUCKING PURPOSES

Intensive purposes makes no god damn sense, you baboon

You're a fucking moron, go back to watching Spike TV and it's shitty short lived TV shows.

All intensive purposes is called a oral transformation in language everyone knows what I'm saying so fuck off, you're not my 6th grade grammar teacher.

BTW fuck wad, God is capitalized and usually people end their sentences with periods.

its, an, special education teacher. And by oral transformation I assume you actually meant stupid excuse for mangling a phrase. What the fuck is an intensive purpose?

[orson]

but for all intensive proposes they are fairly equal

Say it with me

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND MOTHERFUCKING PURPOSES

Intensive purposes makes no god damn sense, you baboon

You're a fucking moron, go back to watching Spike TV and it's shitty short lived TV shows.

All intensive purposes is called a oral transformation in language everyone knows what I'm saying so fuck off, you're not my 6th grade grammar teacher.

BTW fuck wad, God is capitalized and usually people end their sentences with periods.

its, an, special education teacher. And by oral transformation I assume you actually meant stupid excuse for mangling a phrase. What the fuck is an intensive purpose?

Uh huh, slang is part of the English language do you know how many words and sayings have come from slang and misspellings? Americans spell color the British spell it colour this changed because of common usage and that's a pretty small difference that simply got changed.

Everyone knew what I was saying and yes I know it's a cliche mistake. What I did write was not proper English but these are freaking internet forums where the people who are correcting the grammar/spelling probably fuck up all the time in their own grammar/spelling. Do you spend hours proof reading shit that you write? Sorry I don't have the patience for that. No one had a problem with what I said until this dumbass who literally quoted a Spike TV show to correct my grammar did so to make himself feel like he actually has a reason to post when in reality he's just trolling to get post count.

Seriously pick your battles you're not going to stop people making grammar and spelling mistakes on the intrawebbing. Seriously get a fucking life.

P.S. Charismatic no where did I say I was right in what I said only that what I said is a common mistake but whatever you're right it's not worth arguing about.

[Charismatic]

Stop arguing over retarded shit.
orson, you were fucking wrong. Shut up.

But at the same time, orson's right, we knew what he meant, even though what he said made him look like a moron.
Better to just lol at him and the ignore his bullshit when he tries to defend how he wasn't completely fucking wrong.


Back to WAR/DNC being a fail tank.

[fantasticdan]

He's not saying why people wouldn't compare them, but why people shouldn't. Or at least, why people shouldn't while feeling they can with any kind of true accuracy outside of their own opinion. The point is simply as he said; apples and oranges. This saying means that outside of opinion, you can't compare them. You may like the texture of apples more than oranges, and think they're better because of this, but that sure doesn't make it a fact.

There's plenty of factual comparisons you can make between the two games. The notion that a simple ZA run(10 man instance), which is pretty easy as far as wow endgame goes, is more complicated and requires more inter-player coordination than anything in sky/sea(besides AV)/limbus/dynamis/kings/nyzul isn't really an opinion, it's an accurate observation from doing all of these things. Sure some guy could jump in and say the opposite, but it would be totally inapt. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm saying for the most part, one requires a good deal less thinking/strategy/paying attention at endgame events.

Similarly you can't compare the difficulty of killing Jorgy with 6 people with killing some random NM in WoW with 6. Nor can you compare instances in FF that are typically ran with 12-25 people with instances in WoW that are typically ran with what, 25-50 people? And you really can't compare the rankings of difficulty between them when the gameplay and strategies are vastly different.

Wow instances run with 5/10/25 people, not really that much different than endgame events in FFXI. There were a couple 40 man raids before the expansion came out, but no one does those anymore, well no one really did them back than either. In my opinion the main reason ffxi in general is so much easier, is that nearly all fights against anything are nearly the same with only minor differences. You don't even need a real strategy for most things passed an understanding of basic game mechanics, aside from "Stand on it's feet" "Don't stand in front of it" "Stun/shadowbind when it readies X" "Don't feed it TP" "Erase/-na spell after X tp move" "Run out of range of meteor".

Furthermore, in general the posters here are biased in favor of everything being easier; and as such evaluating the difficulties of what FF has to offer based off of posts here is silly. More than any other board posters here will often be of higher achievements and stature, and as such our outlook on what's easy/difficult doesn't reflect the average.

I've done almost everything there is to do FFXI across five 75 jobs, other than tier 2/3 einherjar, odin, AV, and whatever WotG stuff they added in the most recent update. I'm not evaluating on anything but my own experience, in fact a good portion of the players I play ffxi and wow with are the same people. I would think my viewpoint is pretty objective.

The average linkshell can't even clear T1 Einherjar, yet you ask the same question here and you'll get a lol. All the while some people will even say beating Jorgy with 6-8 is easy, but if every group of people with corresponding 75 jobs that could do it tried to, I guarantee 99% would lose horribly. Which, again, would hardly classify to the general FF audience as easy.

You could do things with lower numbers in wow if you wanted if you wanted a more challenge, that's not something exclusive to ffxi. And I think most linkshells problem with einherjar isn't necessarily the challenge of the mobs, but rather the challenge of getting enough people with a good job setup into the event itself. Most endgame players don't bother to do this event in first place(passed trying it a couple times) due to it's horrible design anyway, it's not a very good example.

[Raineer]

but for all intensive proposes they are fairly equal

Say it with me

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND PURPOSES

INTENTS AND MOTHERFUCKING PURPOSES

Intensive purposes makes no god damn sense, you baboon

You're a fucking moron, go back to watching Spike TV and it's shitty short lived TV shows.

All intensive purposes is called a oral transformation in language everyone knows what I'm saying so fuck off, you're not my 6th grade grammar teacher.

BTW fuck wad, God is capitalized and usually people end their sentences with periods.

its, an, special education teacher. And by oral transformation I assume you actually meant stupid excuse for mangling a phrase. What the fuck is an intensive purpose?

Uh huh, slang is part of the English language do you know how many words and sayings have come from slang and misspellings? Americans spell color the British spell it colour this changed because of common usage and that's a pretty small difference that simply got changed.

Everyone knew what I was saying and yes I know it's a cliche mistake. What I did write was not proper English but these are freaking internet forums where the people who are correcting the grammar/spelling probably fuck up all the time in their own grammar/spelling. Do you spend hours proof reading shit that you write? Sorry I don't have the patience for that. No one had a problem with what I said until this dumbass who literally quoted a Spike TV show to correct my grammar did so to make himself feel like he actually has a reason to post when in reality he's just trolling to get post count.

Seriously pick your battles you're not going to stop people making grammar and spelling mistakes on the intrawebbing. Seriously get a fucking life.

P.S. Charismatic no where did I say I was right in what I said only that what I said is a common mistake but whatever you're right it's not worth arguing about.

STOP

[Sev]

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/2...efa38ec3d8.jpg

Zara finally did it lol, he didn't learn from us spamming his thread the first time lol

[Demetrius*]

the only things really comparable between ffxi and wow instances/bosses are limbus/salvage/ein where you're running against a clock.
You actually can't low man in wow like you can in ffxi because of boss enrage timers. you can bring a few less people but if you try to 10man a 25man raid boss you're pretty fucked it'd be like bringing 6 people to jorm when he has a 40 min enrage timer where he 1 shots your tank afterwards.

my guild wipped literally(literally) 50 times to archimonde when we knew the whole strategy beforehand. we're gonna wipe another 50+ more times to illidan before we get phase 2(of 4) down, and the retards in my guild are above average. fights are extremely unforgiving, there are no rr hairpins.

you don't need to low man anything in wow to find a challenge(when you play with the idiots i do). thats very rarely the case in ffxi.