Hillary Clinton: Sure, I'd NUKE Iran.

[Nystul]

People tend to use the term Conservative and Republican interchangeably, which is a shame.

:nikkei:

[Kuya]

Aside from the tax cuts, name one thing Bush has done that's conservative.

Warrantless Wiretapping, War in Iraq, Increased Defense Spending, Patriot Act

And that's just concerning the war.

I suggest you read up on what "conservative" means in a political and fiscal sense.

What does conservative really mean anyway? As far as i'm corcerned the definition of it is highly relative to the nation/time it exists. A conservative in the 21st century is not the same as one from the 19th, or a conservative in the US is certainly not the same as one from France.

And the reason i make that distinction is because a liberal in any given nation will most likely support the concept of equality whether it be on a political, social, or economic level, and they tend to learn towards democracy, but not necesarily, while on the other hand i consider conservatism to be more of a reactionary ideology. That is, when a new movement that seeks to challenge established norms appears, a conservative sector will rise to meet it, whether it be because they are defending their interests which could suffer where the social reality of any given nation to change, or because of some unspecified disdain for abrupt change.

Evidently, i have a great hatred for conservatism in a religious or moral context. This is why i find neo-conservatives extremely irritating as they were just liberals who got rather uncomfortable with the rise of the New Left, and when this new liberal movement died down, they decided to aim themselves at spreading democracy and capitalism, for some reason. With that said, i'm not aware how much of the Republican party is composed of paleo conservatives, or if there are any left. In fact, beyond them wanting smaller government, much like libertarians, i don't know how else to define a paleo conservative, or if they even agree with classical capitalism.

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

[Nystul]

in america, traditionally it means gradual change, small government, low taxes, less governmental control etc. Calling anyone that is in the upper tier of the Republican party "conservative" these days is pretty much mislabeling them.

[guartz]

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

Ahah, well either American political opinions split very conveniently into two, or the whole thing is just designed to simplify the ruling while giving the illusion of choice.

[Howard Roark]

wanna know something hilarious?? (to me at least)

in the US - Conservatives = the Republican party
Liberals = the Democrats
correct?

in Canada - Progressive Conservative Party = your republicans in terms of issues
Liberal Party = middle of the road, wishy washy (Democrats)

was very confusing in high school learning about US politics haha

[Exoduso]

lolcanada

[Nystul]

wanna know something hilarious?? (to me at least)

in the US - Conservatives = the Republican party
Liberals = the Democrats
correct?

in Canada - Progressive Conservative Party = your republicans in terms of issues
Liberal Party = middle of the road, wishy washy (Democrats)

was very confusing in high school learning about US politics haha

not seeing the funny...

[Kuya]

in america, traditionally it means gradual change, small government, low taxes, less governmental control etc. Calling anyone that is in the upper tier of the Republican party "conservative" these days is pretty much mislabeling them.

Well the thing is, with the things you've just mentioned, they sound like libertarians, but libertarians, i hear, are very varied in ideas outside of the things you've just mentioned. So how do we diferentiate a libertarian from a paleo conservative, or should i consider libertarians direct heirs of the old conservative vanguard?

I'm just thinking that paleo conservatives share the same views on economics with libertarians, but libertarians may be more liberal socially? Yes?

[Nystul]

libertarianism is a pretty broad thing...I'm not touching it

[Xavier]

RON PAUL

[Kuya]

libertarianism is a pretty broad thing...I'm not touching it

Yea exactly... varied... ugh.

[Maxxthepenguin]

RON PAUL

GDI, IF YOU SAY HIS NAME 2 MORE TIMES HE COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD

[Beckwin]

ok, well if modern Republicans aren't conservative, and they sure as hell aren't liberal.... what are they?

(can we use fascist? PLEASE?!?!?)

[Melchiah]

People tend to use the term Conservative and Republican interchangeably, which is a shame.

Quoted for truth. John McCain is an excellent example. The man runs on the R ticket, yet that top 5% I mentioned hate him with a passion. So much so in fact, that Ann Coulter made the comment that she would campaign for Hillary Clinton should John McCain win the R nomination.

Speaking of, McCain is the R nominee right? So when's Mr. Coulter going to Mann up and follow through?

[Kuya]

The most public ones? Neo conservatives, or so i think that's what they are. Some of them don't like to be called neo cons and prefer to just be referred as conservatives, but the reality is that paleoconservatives don't want them either.

[guartz]

libertarianism is a pretty broad thing...I'm not touching it

Yea exactly... varied... ugh.

the core philosophy isn't that splintered. People sure.

But the philosophy is probably the least complicated out of all other political philosophies.

I'm not sure how you came up with "broad thing" description unless you mean it's putting both ethical and legal foundations into it's political philosophy?

[Nystul]

ok, well if modern Republicans aren't conservative, and they sure as hell aren't liberal.... what are they?

(can we use fascist? PLEASE?!?!?)

No, because it doesn't apply.

[Nystul]

libertarianism is a pretty broad thing...I'm not touching it

Yea exactly... varied... ugh.

the core philosophy isn't that splintered. People sure.

But the philosophy is probably the least complicated out of all other political philosophies.

I'm not sure how you came up with "broad thing" description unless you mean it's putting both ethical and legal foundations into it's political philosophy?

Anything that runs from a conservative small government concept through anarchism seems pretty broad to me.

[Beckwin]

thanks for ruining my Hemingway dream of being able to call all the bad guys in politics fascists;;

[Nystul]

thanks for ruining my Hemingway dream of being able to call all the bad guys in politics fascists;;

you'll always have that rampant alcoholism to fall back on.