LOLelections

[evilbau]

You seemed to miss the part where working their asses off wasn't enough. That is what liberals tend to try to fix.

Exactly:

for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_R ... tunity_Act
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

You make it seem like even with government help it is easy to get out of poverty. It isn't. Even the hard working ones have a tough time. Anyone who is living paycheck to paycheck will be hard pressed to create any savings or generate any assets/wealth. Especially those with kids. In some cases, even with government assistance it is quite impossible for some to move up socially. You should examine why you hate poor people, your lack of humanity does not reflect well upon you.

I don't think he hates poor people. He just doesn't want to be forced against his will to help them. Compassion is not forcing one person to give up their fish to feed another.

[Delta_9]

btw, what's your opinion on the estate tax?

The estate tax is only bullshit because you've already paid taxes on it. Though I'd be fine with it if the estate was worth xx millions.

[Howard Roark]

I get the impression that America is a third world country from reading this thread.

this?:

I don't like the judicial system. I don't like the government system. I don't like the police. I don't like anything to do with this country's government. I just don't like it, because... They're sneaky, like I said. They're deceitful. They're lying. They're cheats. They rip people off. That's the American government for you. America is a third world country, and people don't recognize it...and I think that that's pretty god damned sad, that they don't recognize their own country as a third world, third rate, third class slum.

full wall-o-text here

[Maxxthepenguin]

You make it seem like even with government help it is easy to get out of poverty. It isn't. Even the hard working ones have a tough time. Anyone who is living paycheck to paycheck will be hard pressed to create any savings or generate any assets/wealth. Especially those with kids. In some cases, even with government assistance it is quite impossible for some to move up socially. You should examine why you hate poor people, your lack of humanity does not reflect well upon you.

I don't think he hates poor people. He just doesn't want to be forced against his will to help them. Compassion is not forcing one person to give up their fish to feed another.

If your job is to run the fisheating community the best you can, somebody has more fish than they can ever really use, and the other has no fish, it is compassionate to make the guy with all the fish give his fish up to help the starving guy.

[Masterofshade]

I know Evilbau, it is never easy. Moving up the socioeconomic ladder isn't as easy as a real one. But, on the flip side, people have to try. Giving them reasons why they shouldn't, and encouraging 0 personal growth isn't something to be encouraged.

How do I have no humanity cuz I'd rather people strive to be their best, and give their children the best jump start they can, rather than wasting away with mediocrity?

And no, Liberals don't. If they really wanted to help people, they would stop molly-coddling them. Lots of people all around the world succeed through unforgiving effort on their part to do their best.

And I don't hate poor people, if I did, I'd rather hate myself too.

[Masterofshade]

You make it seem like even with government help it is easy to get out of poverty. It isn't. Even the hard working ones have a tough time. Anyone who is living paycheck to paycheck will be hard pressed to create any savings or generate any assets/wealth. Especially those with kids. In some cases, even with government assistance it is quite impossible for some to move up socially. You should examine why you hate poor people, your lack of humanity does not reflect well upon you.

I don't think he hates poor people. He just doesn't want to be forced against his will to help them. Compassion is not forcing one person to give up their fish to feed another.

If your job is to run the fisheating community the best you can, somebody has more fish than they can ever really use, and the other has no fish, it is compassionate to make the guy with all the fish give his fish up to help the starving guy.

Or, you could do something like teach the guy to fish for himself (tada community colleges) so this person has a chance at earning his own fish. Ya know, "Give a man a fish..." It's true. Welfare and similar systems are giving of fish, not teaching to fish.

[Maxxthepenguin]

And no, Liberals don't. If they really wanted to help people, they would stop molly-coddling them. Lots of people all around the world succeed through unforgiving effort on their part to do their best.

And many, many more don't. Single mother with 3 jobs etc.

[evilbau]

You make it seem like even with government help it is easy to get out of poverty. It isn't. Even the hard working ones have a tough time. Anyone who is living paycheck to paycheck will be hard pressed to create any savings or generate any assets/wealth. Especially those with kids. In some cases, even with government assistance it is quite impossible for some to move up socially. You should examine why you hate poor people, your lack of humanity does not reflect well upon you.

I don't think he hates poor people. He just doesn't want to be forced against his will to help them. Compassion is not forcing one person to give up their fish to feed another.

If you look at it another way, if you maintain all these government programs, and its set up such that anyone with the proper determination and willingness to do hard work can rise from poverty, he can truly say 'poor people are just lazy.' Don't we have a moral obligation to help out our fellow Americans? I am ashamed that the wealthiest nation in the world has such a huge number of people living in horrible 'third-world-like' living conditions. Having a more balanced society doesn't mean we have to be socialist or communist, and we can still maintain our competitiveness even if we did (look at Denmark, Finland, Sweden, etc.)

[Masterofshade]

And no, Liberals don't. If they really wanted to help people, they would stop molly-coddling them. Lots of people all around the world succeed through unforgiving effort on their part to do their best.

And many, many more don't. Single mother with 3 jobs etc.

She's a single mother why? She slept with someone who ran out on her? Her fault. Her husband died? Yeah, that's different. But the fact of the matter is, you can't go with everything case by case.

Financial Aid is a great system for this reason. Financial aid would pay tuition, and rent, and all she would need would be a part-time job to cover food/other expenses. However, she would still need to be working incredibly hard to do well in school, and in 2 years, she could potentially have a job that pays enough to cover everything, and have more time with her children.

If the kids don't go to school yet, she can wait til they do. There's also a huge amount of online college courses a single mother could resort to if need be, and financial aid covers those too (at least in WA state).

[Maxxthepenguin]

You make it seem like even with government help it is easy to get out of poverty. It isn't. Even the hard working ones have a tough time. Anyone who is living paycheck to paycheck will be hard pressed to create any savings or generate any assets/wealth. Especially those with kids. In some cases, even with government assistance it is quite impossible for some to move up socially. You should examine why you hate poor people, your lack of humanity does not reflect well upon you.

I don't think he hates poor people. He just doesn't want to be forced against his will to help them. Compassion is not forcing one person to give up their fish to feed another.

If your job is to run the fisheating community the best you can, somebody has more fish than they can ever really use, and the other has no fish, it is compassionate to make the guy with all the fish give his fish up to help the starving guy.

Or, you could do something like teach the guy to fish for himself (tada community colleges) so this person has a chance at earning his own fish. Ya know, "Give a man a fish..." It's true. Welfare and similar systems are giving of fish, not teaching to fish.

Here's the problem: The guy with a ton of fish has huge fucking nets and gets 90% of the fish. The guy with no fish doesn't have any fish in the meantime and still needs to learn how to compete for that last 10% of the fish. There are also more people than there are fish left over after the guy with tons of fish gets all of his before anyone else. It doesn't matter what the guys without fishes do, unless the guy with a lot of fish gives some up they are screwed.

Holy analogy batman

[Senoska]

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6...oulter2ba3.jpg

[Masterofshade]

Sweden is in kinda rough shape, due to rampant drug problems, less workers because a lot are subsisting on government programs and the like.

So says a Swede I talk to a lot on Vent.

Holy crap, replies faster than I can type.

Yeah, too bad Ann is a psychotic religious gal, and it makes her wrong on a lot of issues. She is right on quite a few though.

The guy with the bigass net busted his ass to make them, or his father busted his ass and gave them to him, or he somehow traded fish for nets, or in some way earned those nets. You would deny him his hard-earned fish purely because others were unwilling to do the same?

[aurik]

Sweden is in kinda rough shape, due to rampant drug problems, less workers because a lot are subsisting on government programs and the like.

So says a Swede I talk to a lot on Vent.

Holy crap, replies faster than I can type.

Yeah, too bad Ann is a psychotic religious gal, and it makes her wrong on a lot of issues. She is right on quite a few though.

The guy with the bigass net busted his ass to make them, or his father busted his ass and gave them to him, or he somehow traded fish for nets, or in some way earned those nets. You would deny him his hard-earned fish purely because others were unwilling to do the same?

No, because others are unABLE to do the same due to circumstances beyond their control.

Oh yea, and also, if he doesn't, then all the hungry failed fishermen are going to lynch him and take all his fish. So either way, he is going to lose some fish.

[Senoska]

Why would you teach someone to fish if you already know how? You figured it out, why can't they?

LOLOLYOURLOGICISRETARDED

[Maxxthepenguin]

Sweden is in kinda rough shape, due to rampant drug problems, less workers because a lot are subsisting on government programs and the like.

Khelek>> that's not the sweden I live in <_<
Khelek>> must be some QQ kid who lives in one of the like 3 bad areas in sweden

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

You make it seem like even with government help it is easy to get out of poverty. It isn't. Even the hard working ones have a tough time. Anyone who is living paycheck to paycheck will be hard pressed to create any savings or generate any assets/wealth. Especially those with kids. In some cases, even with government assistance it is quite impossible for some to move up socially. You should examine why you hate poor people, your lack of humanity does not reflect well upon you.

I don't think he hates poor people. He just doesn't want to be forced against his will to help them. Compassion is not forcing one person to give up their fish to feed another.

If you look at it another way, if you maintain all these government programs, and its set up such that anyone with the proper determination and willingness to do hard work can rise from poverty, he can truly say 'poor people are just lazy.' Don't we have a moral obligation to help out our fellow Americans? I am ashamed that the wealthiest nation in the world has such a huge number of people living in horrible 'third-world-like' living conditions. Having a more balanced society doesn't mean we have to be socialist or communist, and we can still maintain our competitiveness even if we did (look at Denmark, Finland, Sweden, etc.)

Your damn right we have a moral obligation to help people of lesser fortunes. But how can someone morally justify stealing from one person to give to another? Does that person not have a right to do what they wish with the fruits of their labor? Also, in Milton Friedman's book Free to Choose, he has some interesting statistics about welfare. It wasn't until Lyndon Johnson's great society that poverty began to increase. Also, how long has our government been throwing money at the problem and it hasn't gone away?

There are plenty of ways the government can help people without stealing from one person and giving to another. Don't do John McCains stupid ass cap and trade policy. Get rid of payroll taxes. Don't punish corporations for earning money. Deregulate industries. Sign the CFT.

[Beckwin]

She slept with someone who ran out on her? Her fault.

You're a delusional pig.

Also, how long has our government been throwing money at the problem and it hasn't gone away?

poverty will never just "go away" as long as we maintain a capitalist economy. you're looking at it the wrong way.

[Obev]

Broke ass white people... well, they should stop being broke.

ah it's so simple~!

Just flip off the poor switch you idiot, gosh.

It's right next to the JP button.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Also, how long has our government been throwing money at the problem and it hasn't gone away?

poverty will never just "go away" as long as we maintain a capitalist economy. you're looking at it the wrong way.

Yea, poorly put. But there was less poverty when there was less government intervention.