Scholar's Dilemma: Refresh or Sublimation.

[LD]

I've recently gotten over 40 with my SCH, so I'm starting to occasionally be in PTs with RDMs. I tell them not to bother Refreshing me, since it doesn't stack with Sub, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the best idea. In situations where the RDM has a full load, with PLDs and multiple mages, at least I'm taking one for the team (and I do my part to lessen the load with regens), but I'm begining to wonder which is actually more efficient. Refresh has the advantage of allowing me to rest while the only way I can rest with Sub up at this range is with Earthen Ward. Sublimation always gives me more MP than Refresh would (Refresh only gives 150, while Sub will give 170+ depending on lvl and HP gear), but at the expense of a greater amount of time which will only get longer, even when I get AF hat (though by then, the rate will pick up to match that of Refresh, not to mention being able to use SS with /WHM.)

I suppose, depending on the RDM's Refresh load and which role I'm play, which I should lean to could change, but I'm not sure what I should be doing most of the time.

[Sendra]

From a (48)RDM's perspective, I tend to not refresh the SCHs I party with; I have a hard enough time balancing hastes and my own refresh. If you can manage on your own, it might be in everyone's best interest for you to do so. Sublimation is 40ish more MP that a RDM has for themselves, and more time they can spend resting as opposed to waiting to finish an order. Additionally, it's nice to be self sufficient in that respect and not have to rely on a potentially shitty RDM.

[FailureMidgard]

At 40mp per refresh, over the duration of the spell it works out to a net gain of 10mp over Sublimation.

In general, at 75 as whm/sch, I feel sublimation is better than refresh in most situations. It saves the rdm the mp and cooldown, and furthermore, having 270mp available whenever I want it, is far better than refresh in any situation that I have time to rest and maintain my mp near full.

That being said, at your level, I believe refresh is far and away better, due to the ability to rest with it up.

[Aihree]

Before you have AF hat, refresh from a rdm who can keep up is superior since it is 3/tick compared to sublimation's 2/tick. Without AF it takes much longer to reach a full store of MP, so refresh will give you more MP in the same amount of time. Not to mention being able to rest with it up, since SCH68 and stoneskin are so very far away.

[Alistaire]

How long would /blu Metallic Body last vs Sublimation drain?

[Suiram]

According to the info on BGwiki, metallic body absorbs 1/3 of level + 1/3 of Blue Magic skill. Not sure if as a sub the level used in the calculation is the main level or the BLU SJ level, though (would guess it's main level though unless demonstrated otherwise).

[Alistaire]

Should be the same calculation. No reason really to gimp it beyond the fact your skill is halved. How much is the drain/tick on sublimation? I'm @ SCH33 so almost there...

[LD]

2hp/tick, 3 with AF hat.

[Baha]

I usually refresh SCH's on my 61 RDM, not much trouble usually. Most decent ToAU setups don't need all that much curing, so 4 hastes and 2 refreshes isn't too big of a deal. Don't find myself waiting on convert timer usually, and the really good parties I barely even need it.

Usually does get annoying when there's a PLD or BLU needing/asking for refresh as well though. Guess I'll ask SCH's what they prefer from now on, thanks.

[LD]

/sigh...all I've gleaned from this is 'Shit is situational.'

-_-

[Suiram]

Such is the nature of shit.

[Uzor]

Keeping sublimation up until it caps without any form of stoneskin available isn't beneficial, quite honestly. The best use of Sublimation I've found, is to activate it during battle, then deactivate it at the end of the battle to /heal. You'll get much more MP back from /heal then you will ever get with sublimation. Standing up with sublimation active will not give you more MP then /healing.

With a RDM pre-60, Refresh will ALWAYS give you more MP back then Sublimation. Partly since you can safely /heal with refresh on you, and partly because it gives you 1/tick refresh more than Sublimation.

[LD]

I suppose I was really asking was whether Sub is good enough to give the RDM a pass in most situations, not which is better, the latter of which is obvious after reading the OP.

The question of 'which is more efficient' has to do with the cost/benefit ratio of taking or not taking refresh in terms of the PT's advantage, not necessarily the SCH's.

Id Est (said LD, like the great literary Fag that he is), if used properly (activate while standing, then canceling when sitting or in tandem with SS) even with few refresh targets, would foregoing Refresh and using Sublimation make for a smoother or at least as smooth party in terms of MP management?

In my personal experience, I find that I can do well with out refresh; charging to full while standing, resting when charged, use to get MP near max, repeat. Of course, I find I do this best when I'm forced to heal and my MP consumption isn't high (regen + spot heals then switch to nuking with parsimony tier 2 and alacrity drain/aspir), so there are a few times when the deal doesn't go as smoothly as I'd like, but those instances are rare.

[Gergall]

Are your parties experiencing frequent "wait for MP" downtime? Even against enemies that are much stronger than we should be fighting for optimal XP, and with a PLD tank, I still find that my parties do not run low on MP with a RDM as the only refresher.

edit: I'm not saying that the parties I've been in at this level range were very good. We were fighting Puks that were way overlevel for 300 xp kills every few minutes. I was not happy with this party. But MP was no problem.

[whoami]

id say take rdm refresh over sub if your given the chance. Works out depending on race and hp you'll get 2.5 to 2.7 mp per tic averaged with sub which inclused the 30 seconds reuse timer. At 68+ though if your not fighting imps sublimation is nice but keep in mind it is storing mp so if shit hits the fans you got to use sub first to get the mp you need. Honestly that shouldnt be a issue though. As a sch i prefer a brd or cor refresher though i wont turn down a rdm either. Enspell will add 5-10% dot to the party based on melees acc and total delay between swings. 40-68 you can enspell but your like a smn healer with only enspells as buffs but can enfeeble. Once you get to 64 though with /rdm phalanx or 58 /whm;68 /rdm for SS then you finally feel like your relly contributing to partys with buffs givening them a strong defence and atk (SS enspells phalanx). I found at 68 with a pld tanks that you basickly put the partys in what i like to call god mode with -21ish phalanx and caped/near caped SS with hardly anyone taking dmg. Works with ninja's as well but plds just get a lot more out of the buffs imo.
Anyways sorry for derail. Short version refresh when ever you can (especailly on imps that amnesia sucks) but once you get SS and af hat its personal prefrence. I dont like to relly on rdm being late with refresh but if there on top of it thats a difrent story. (P.S with a rdm sch should be main healing imo sence the rdm is doing hasting and debuffing dutys at that point)