RDM DD Can of Worms

[Max™]

Hey, if you wanna melee while you're swapping staves appropriately, and taking a knee to heal mp as needed...

TOUGH FUCKING SHIT

Level a melee job if you wanna hit things, or go solo.

[BroodIfrit]

Level a melee job if you wanna hit things, or go solo.

Finally, someone gets it.
I was meritting on Colibri recently, had to build my own party. So I invite a RDM and a DNC (DNC was a friend of mine), so the RDM automatically assumes that the DNC can cover the party's damage and he can melee.

If I wanted a melee job, why the hell would I have a RDM do it when I could get a WAR/SAM/DRK/something that will make my job easier?

[TheShadyMan]

Only time I ran into a melee rdm past the jungles was this one time doing Colibri in Bhaflau Thickets. It was this crazy fuck JP rdm who kept everyone hasted and shit, kept debuffs and other shit up too, and was doing a loldecent amount of damage.

Later we found out the whm had been afk for like an hour because she got sick suddenly and left without saying anything, and we didn't even notice. That must have been awesome to come back to.
"Oh hey guys, sorry I left without saying anything!"
"Wait, you were gone?"

[Izzy]

Unless they're being invited for the sole purpose of DD, they're wasting their time doing damage. If I get invited as a WHM to heal/haste my party, there's no way I can melee doing all the shit I need to be doing. If I'm meeling, that's taking away from sitting time/getting ballad/etc. that I would otherwise be getting if I was in the back.

Even then I'd rather have a legit DD job. Otherwise I agree.

I don't suck and I'm incredibly self-sufficient thank you very much. I'll probley outparse that "legit DD" Domaru SAM you invited as well.

If that wasn't a personal shot at my club, sorry for flying off the handle Q_Q

[Isiolia]

Eh, RDM DD is one of those things that can have a place, even in merit. It just depends on what the party setup is like, what you're fighting, etc. If someone actually knows what they're doing, and is supporting the party in the capacity that they need along with melee, then there's no problem. It's an exceptionally rare situation, if you're getting a 2x BRD or BRD n' COR setup as most will prefer, but it can happen.

The issue tends more to be with the idiots that feel that RDM is like a custom job class that they can pick a couple things from a list and play it that way. All the time. Or that RDM is "supposed" to be meleeing as the normal situation.

While it can work, usually it's a /facepalm.

[Keria]

I don't invite RDMs to DD, so they better not start trying to.

Nope, RDM DD can suck a cock. If they're managing well without resting during fights at all, you're too mage heavy or they need to do more shit.

[Bakthi]

I can only remember two melee RDM situations:

I was leveling THF, my first job past 20 (and it sat at 40 while I got 5 other 75s, go figure) and trying to make a party in Garlaige behave itself for SATA. Well...the tank was doing okay, but the melee weren't. So the RDM, who was /NIN, sent me a /tell saying "I'll line up, you SATA on me, it'll be fine". And well...it was! This actually lead to my first linkpearl.

The second time, when I was leveling WHM, we had this RDM with pretty annoying macros who meleed and only hasted himself. But...he kept Refresh on me full-time, and helped me cure in the rare cases it was needed. I didn't really need help maintaining haste on the rest of the melee, I was fine on MP, and we were getting good exp so it was like...well, fine. Colibri really are too easy, I guess >.> I don't think I would have had enough MP without the Refresh, so we just got over it.

In general though, especially as the levels go up, I think RDMs should usually have something more productive to do. If you really, really don't, great, but just make sure your idea of "more productive" squares with the rest of your party's.

[Max™]

I actually had Rdm leveled at one point (don't tell anyone!) and in my static we had Nin, and Thf, and a SATA bitch.

The SATA bitch DCed midfight once, so I put up phalanx/stoneskin/blink and said to SATA me.

Shadow
Hit for 0
Shadow
Hit for 28
/p hah, this is cake
Crit for almost half my life...
/p OH GOD GET IT OFF ME, IT'S EATING MY VERY SOUL!

[Obev]

I don't even have sword or dagger capped on Red Mage. Fuck meleeing for anything other than Campaign (pew pew justice sword enspell).

[Vigilia]

Back in 2003-2004 I melee'd in XP parties till about lvl 65 when I finally was able to afford some staves (and because it was an old skool static party that had WHM BLM RDM PLD DRG and THF and I had very little else to do outside refresh, basic enfeebles and hitting the MB as was the norm back then- the WHM used to get mad at me for curing/hasting because it was his job).

Knowing from personal experience just how badly my enfeebles sucked to try stick pre-staves I kick meleeing RDMs in XP without a second thought now.

[Thorny]

Why would you use terra for tanking? Unless you're getting your ass kicked?

How many mobs worth tanking(as opposed to letting DD tank) have no double/triple-attack, no shadow strip tp moves, and no multihit tp moves? Once hate is established, you're retarded if you idle in chainsaw swords.. a dead tank has 0 enmity.

[nekura]

Someone I know goes RDM/DNC to bird parties (not me, I swear >_> My dancer is level 1 and I like blowing shit up with Slug Shot too much to go RDM to merit parties) with haste/accuracy setup + Joytoy + Sushi. It's not really for DD purposes since he's using his TP for healing and MP to Dia the birds, Refresh himself, and Haste himself and everyone else, but he still contributes to damage (I think he parses ~5% or so), and doesn't need Ballad or time to rest. And he's smart enough not to do it at Mamool camp to boot.

The only personal experience I've had with a melee RDM was when I was leveling COR and dinged into Evoker's Roll (level 40) around the time our RDM hit 41 and thus had access to Refresh. His MP was nearly always full and we were destroying the hell out of the mobs in Gustav Tunnel, so he decided to pull out a sword and melee too. I wtf'd at first but he had no trouble managing his other duties so I didn't mind.

Given the competence level I see in most players though, I would be more inclined to say "Hell no" to melee RDM.

[shihei]

Well I once partied with a DD RDM in Den of Rancor on Lizzies and Bibiki Bay and I have to say he did his job great. He was actually 2-boxed by the PLD tank, did all his enfeebles and refresh x 3, spare curing. No idea how much damage he actually did but with sword up to date and enspells I'm sure it helped some. Oh, he was also my SATA partner for no ws and for ws. Blink and Stoneskin and he took minimal damage + lost hate quick after to the PLD anyway.


Couple months ago though I had a melee RDM at 40ish in Western Altepa on beetles...
with 4 people I'm hasting as whm, he refreshed me all of twice when my mp was 100~.
Soon as he was called out on it, he suddenly is AFK!


blah bnla blah

[Tricen]

Why would you use terra for tanking? Unless you're getting your ass kicked?

How many mobs worth tanking(as opposed to letting DD tank) have no double/triple-attack, no shadow strip tp moves, and no multihit tp moves? Once hate is established, you're retarded if you idle in chainsaw swords.. a dead tank has 0 enmity.

Oh yeah I forgot mobs don't get elegy or slow ~_~. Last time I tanked Cerb, I didn't need oshit gear. I use Chainsaw/Seveneyes. Maybe your RDM tanks suck at shadows..?

[Thorny]

Point was you won't always have more than 1 shadow up and mobs can DA/TA or do multihit/aoe WS.. you don't need to fulltime chainsaw swords to keep hate and survivability is always most important. Last I checked, a bad tp move with a double attack right after can drop a rdm very easily.. if the mob has no bad tp moves or can't DA why are you even using a tank instead of letting DD tank it?

[Tricen]

Never had problems with shadows. I didn't know RDm solo tanked everything. That's why you have another tank to grab hate so you can get shadows up. The last thing a RDM wants is to horde all the hate on a mob. That will get you killed. DA/TA wont matter if it swings at you once every 20 seconds. With elegy and slow, you can get ichi off in between attack rounds easily. Even if I do get hit, cureIV and keep myself high on the hate list.

[Thorny]

Never had problems with shadows. I didn't know RDm solo tanked everything. That's why you have another tank to grab hate so you can get shadows up. The last thing a RDM wants is to horde all the hate on a mob. That will get you killed. DA/TA wont matter if it swings at you once every 20 seconds. With elegy and slow, you can get ichi off in between attack rounds easily. Even if I do get hit, cureIV and keep myself high on the hate list.

Even if it only swings at you every 20 seconds, if it happens to tp right before that and does a multihit round you can die. While cerb isn't a very good example of that, a double attack from omega can floor you without terra's, wire cutter followed by ultima DA, even seiryu can drop a full hp enm gear rdm in one fang rush -> DA. You don't want to horde the hate, so why fulltime enmity swords instead of having something on that'll give you a bit more survivability? A piece or 2 of darksteel+1, umbra cape, terra's staff in your default gear take away the chances of being nearly one shotted in a situation like that and don't make that large a difference in keeping hate if you're smart about it. You can even macro in your chainsaw sword(s), cerb, etc into your better hate spells when it's on the other tank.

[Tricen]

Whatever works for you I guess. Usually if a Tp gets through, it's enough dmg to turn hate on the other tank. I've only died once tanking and that was cause the other tank couldn't keep hate and I ended up tanking a non slowed/elegied Wyrm. Well, Ultima kinda went sour since I didn't really have a mdb build for CB <_>

[tymora]

RDM DD + keeping haste and everything up is stressful. Well, you don't feel the time go by though. I would think it is only something a few select people are able to do.

[Thorny]

Back on topic, if you can manage to keep all buffs/debuffs up while meleeing, you can keep all buffs/debuff up and nuke occasionally. Not only is this most likely better damage(definitely as opposed to most likely if you're past staves levels), it gives the mob less tp :D