RDM DD Can of Worms

[Raineer]

Back on topic, if you can manage to keep all buffs/debuffs up while meleeing, you can keep all buffs/debuff up and nuke occasionally. Not only is this most likely better damage(definitely as opposed to most likely if you're past staves levels), it gives the mob less tp :D

I pretty much sided with this portion of the debate. Not to mention, the other players will instantly blame your meleeing if haste or refresh isn't properly overlapped.

I had all the best possible DD gear for RDM (minus relic), and still didn't feel like it was worth the trouble to melee.

When people say "I can do everything and still melee", it doesn't include swapping weapon for debuffs. This school of thought seems to laugh at the idea of debuffing when meriting, and I did it relentlessly. If it is alive, it needs para and slow, at max efficiency. One para proc might be one shadow/whatever saved on your melee and two less seconds casting utsu. If you are RDM/WHM, you can typically skip the WHM and have a 4 DD party (or RDM/BRD/BRD, RDM/BRD/COR) and it is insane.

If you want to DD, build yourself a nuking set and don't suck at it. One Thunder III cast will cover far more damage than any melee work you would throw out over the course of the fight (assuming you are properly debuffing and curing). If you have a WHM in the party, then you must be bored as hell. Nuke like there's no tomorrow and make a real difference.

I could see an exception made for excalibur, in some sense, due to the overpowered potential en-proc, but it's still not likely to outshine a T3 every now and then.

[Mojo]

I have respectable melee gear for RDM, 8/8 sword merits(lol), and actually melee quite often when the situation calls for it. I will say that if any RDM claims they 'have time' to melee in EXP or merit, they're doing something else horribly wrong. There are simply too many things for RDM to be doing to end up with any spare time to melee. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about meleeing when it's actually worth doing, but EXP is never a good place for it.

[jPuff]

Every time a Rdm starts meleeing in my experience-- be it in merits, leveling, or fucking around popping some NM-- their performance takes a nosedive. They think it doesn't, but it does. Always. Every single time. No matter how good you think you are at it, you aren't. Just stop. For the love of god, stop.

[Mosh]

If there is a WHM in the pt and MP is not an issue with the RDM doing all of his/her RDM stuff (Enfeeb, Haste, Refresh, occasional cure, etc) while meleeing, then ok. If he's, you know, hitting the mob.

If they start to slack off in even one of their roles, then it's time to put the sword away. I personally meleed all the way up to 41, but once I got Refresh it was just too much of a bother for my lackluster damage. I also felt myself slacking. Didn't melee again in XP after that.

I personally don't see a reason why RDMs feel the need to melee in exp at all. Got tons of mp even after you have Enfeeb/Haste/Refresh? Toss out a nuke!

But 90% of the time, I'd kick a melee RDM the instant I could find a replacement for them, depending on the level. If I want a DD, I'll invite a DD.

[Tricen]

If a WHM is in a merit pt, something is going horribly wrong. Or, you would get a DD in place of the RDM you wouldn't need.

[Lordwafik]

If a WHM is in a merit pt, something is going horribly wrong.

You're retarded.

WHM can handle a burn party just fine, refresh is lol at this point of the game with so many pieces of autorefresh, ballads, evokers roll, sublimation, they have to try hard to lose mp, or party with retarded /sam people who take 200% damage.

[Raineer]

If a WHM is in a merit pt, something is going horribly wrong.

You're retarded.

WHM can handle a burn party just fine, refresh is lol at this point of the game with so many pieces of autorefresh, ballads, evokers roll, sublimation, they have to try hard to lose mp, or party with retarded /sam people who take 200% damage.

Can we rephrase it to then "WHM+RDM" is retarded? Because I would feel that is accurate.

[Izzy]

If a WHM is in a merit pt, something is going horribly wrong.

You're retarded.

WHM can handle a burn party just fine, refresh is lol at this point of the game with so many pieces of autorefresh, ballads, evokers roll, sublimation, they have to try hard to lose mp, or party with retarded /sam people who take 200% damage.

I wish all melee thought the same way as you Q_Q

[arshesney]

I have respectable melee gear for RDM, 8/8 sword merits(lol), and actually melee quite often when the situation calls for it. I will say that if any RDM claims they 'have time' to melee in EXP or merit, they're doing something else horribly wrong. There are simply too many things for RDM to be doing to end up with any spare time to melee. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about meleeing when it's actually worth doing, but EXP is never a good place for it.

Pretty much sums it up, before leveling RDM (55 atm) I was for 'I want to melee' school... Now I realize it's not possible. My last party required 4 haste, 3 refresh, enfeebles, dispels AND cures (no whm), I barely had the time to throw some aspirs in, yeah could been engaged, but for *maybe* one swing per fight.

If you're doing your job you don't have time to melee.

[Kyreth]

I was in the "what, you needed to ask?" category.

40+ (heck, 30+), it's not optimal for an RDM to be doing anything save being in the back casting. At 51+, it's outright retarded thanks to staves. RDM melee = campaign battles, soloing, and HNM tanking. You -might- melee vs. colibri if you're over the top on mage power (that is, a PT that actually has a second mage, as opposed to TP burn standard.)

That being said, I'm still curious what S-E had in mind as far as RDM melee buffs go.

[Rydir]

True Story

I have Joyeuse/Justice Sword, 8/8 Sword skill merits, Suppanomimi, and Fortitude Torque; so 278 rdm sword skill. I took my bard friend to Mamool Staging point and got chain 8 off tough sea puks (couldnt hit mamool worth a damn lol).

Fun times... but if i want exp i will either DD on war or nin; or use my brain and sub /whm and do what i am invited to do and support.

If you are doing your job as a backline support, you are already doing way more than the brainless dd's. Why would you even try juggling Haste, Healing, Enfeeble, MP conservation, and then add Melee on top of your already large list of things to do?

[ninjafox]

I have respectable melee gear for RDM, 8/8 sword merits(lol), and actually melee quite often when the situation calls for it. I will say that if any RDM claims they 'have time' to melee in EXP or merit, they're doing something else horribly wrong. There are simply too many things for RDM to be doing to end up with any spare time to melee. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about meleeing when it's actually worth doing, but EXP is never a good place for it.

Pretty much sums it up, before leveling RDM (55 atm) I was for 'I want to melee' school... Now I realize it's not possible. My last party required 4 haste, 3 refresh, enfeebles, dispels AND cures (no whm), I barely had the time to throw some aspirs in, yeah could been engaged, but for *maybe* one swing per fight.

If you're doing your job you don't have time to melee.

This right here sums it up. RDM is hands down the busiest job in this game and there just isn't enough time to get any type of melee swings in let alone time to even pull your weapon out in time the way pts move nowadays.

[Darwinion]

If a WHM is in a merit pt, something is going horribly wrong.

You're retarded.

WHM can handle a burn party just fine, refresh is lol at this point of the game with so many pieces of autorefresh, ballads, evokers roll, sublimation, they have to try hard to lose mp, or party with retarded /sam people who take 200% damage.

Can we rephrase it to then "WHM+RDM" is retarded? Because I would feel that is accurate.

To be fair I think that is what Tricen meant.... WHM in party plus a RDM as well. Yes, that is crappy.

But I agree with you, WHM alone with BRD and 4x DDs is just as good. However, the WHM needs to be pretty good at managing his MP in a burn party. Whereas you only need a mediocre RDM for the same setup. So for pickup meripos (yeah I know... lol) people tend to go with a RDM 'cos the chances of suckage are a lot less.

[The Blackrose]

Back in the day when Black Mage could get into a standard party set up, I had the misfortune of being partied with a Melee RDM.

She had Warp 2 cast on her five seconds later.

[Tricen]

If a WHM is in a merit pt, something is going horribly wrong.

You're retarded.

WHM can handle a burn party just fine, refresh is lol at this point of the game with so many pieces of autorefresh, ballads, evokers roll, sublimation, they have to try hard to lose mp, or party with retarded /sam people who take 200% damage.

Lemme rephrase. If a WHM and RDM are in the same merit pt. I always assume RDM is already in a merit pt, so saying WHM implies that there's a wasted slot.

[Titanss]

Hey gdi ya'll.. What about that duel wielding rdm with Mandau/Excal @ Faf that one time.. I remember him kicking some major fucking ass.

[Tricen]

I dunno who's ass he was kicking. Was definitely not Faf. Unless he had full ACC gear and ate sushi.

[Titanss]

Can I whoosh now?

[Genosync]

Ok, look.

There's very few people capable of doing this in an XP pt and being successful while doing it.

Requirements:

A. BRD must be in PT - You have to have sufficent slow on the mob in order for MP to not get completely raped based on the RDM's MP recovery rate.

B. RDM must be an experienced healer - Basically, they need to have experience as a Summoner, White Mage, or Paladin, seeing as these are the game's main healing jobs. Not only that, but they need to be damn good at it too. They have to learn how to manage MP, and be skilled at it.

C. Second job with healing duties - This can be anything with /whm, really. Just something else to support heals.

D. Massive DD that are not weak again mob type being fought - Meaning, people who have DD jobs that are either strong to an enemy type (piercing jobs on piercing weak mobs, rather than piercing jobs on crabs).

E. RDM must have extremely good gear as well as merits - Duh.



Meet those requirements, feel free to melee until 75. In fact, you can pull a Tonko, and tank on RDM most of the way to 75 too. He did some kind of set where he tanked on RDM with THF support and stuff, it works out pretty well--if you know exactly what you're getting yourself into.




That being said, my version of RDM DD is called Nuking, and I hope we all know what that involves (elemental skill merits and /SCH anyone?).

But I also pulled off a massive amount of damage (18%) on Fafnir once with a Chainspell and a Vile Elixir+1, before SCH SJ even existed. Hardcore nuking RDM, GO! I think I had a MND setup for all of about um... idk, 2-3 weeks at one point, and then a month at another, until I got tired of carrying so much crap around and sold them. Plus, I realized if I could toss in a few unresisted nukes instead of using the MP on Enfeeble Lv2s, that in the end it had kind of the same effect (but only at the end, shorter fight vs. less swings from mob). I don't know--I really played a weird RDM, but still of course knew and understood everything about the job. Just focused more on the support/nuking side rather than support/enfeebling, but you can blame it on my tendencies for wanting to make things die. (keep in mind my first two jobs were RNG and BLM =P)

[Tricen]

Can I whoosh now?

;3