Gorget & One-hit WS Acc

[Nameless]

Yea, same here with spinning slash. My melee accuracy is usually around 80-87% in merit and 95% on my WS always. Has to have something to do with ftp.

[Hakamaru]

Yea, same here with spinning slash. My melee accuracy is usually around 80-87% in merit and 95% on my WS always. Has to have something to do with ftp.

Sorry... what?

[Seid]

RL friend of mine and I were discussing the other day whether I should use Breeze Gorget or Love Torque in my WS macro on THF. My train of thought was to load up on the initial hit (Gorget) since im guaranteeing it to land (SA) and his contention was the added acc/atk on Love Torque would be better since it would apply to all hits.

Over 5-6 merit parties (50-90k per session/birds) it seemed to me that loading the first hit using the Gorget gave me larger spike numbers (up to 2200 range on SA/DE) but I got more 12 TP returns meaning I missed a hit in the WS (using this info I would *assume* that acc doesnt apply to each hit and in turn neither would the dmg bonus) and using Love I noticed very few 12 returns and more consitency on my mid range DMG returns but top end not being on par with the gorget (1950 range w/ torque). Also noticed more 15 (3xatks) returns with the Love Torque, which makes me think some of my 14 returns that I chalked up to being Brutal going off using the Gorget might have been missed triple attacks. That stuff is tough to tell though.

Im still changing them around to decide what I like the best but am leaning toward the conclusion that for sheer damage loading up with the gorget when using SA/TA is the best option and when going solo WS the Torque is better... nothing ground breaking in that conclusion, just thought I would add a bit since it was kinda fresh on my mind.

Edit: Refering to using Dancing Edge above.

[Ferien]

Except SA guarantees all hits in the WS anyway, so the Acc on Torque is useless if you're stacking the WS with SA.

[Falisa]

SA only guarantees the first hit in a mutli-hit WS

[Khajit]

SE nerfed that back when ROZ was new. I know wotg can make remembering the time you're in difficult but.. wut?

[aurik]

RL friend of mine and I were discussing the other day whether I should use Breeze Gorget or Love Torque in my WS macro on THF. My train of thought was to load up on the initial hit (Gorget) since im guaranteeing it to land (SA) and his contention was the added acc/atk on Love Torque would be better since it would apply to all hits.

The acc from the gorget may apply to all hits. Love Torque is only special because the dex + weap skill adds up to almost as much accuracy, and adds attack as well.

http://blog.ddffxi.com/2008/02/accuracy ... it-ws.html

Via ReleenaSeraph's Blog, http://releenaseraph.livejournal.com/113685.html and Chupunpupun

[mallister]

outstanding! thanks for the post. guess that settles an old debate.

[Hakamaru]

This thread inspired my to tie up the loose ends from the Alla thread back in February. Already posted over there, so copy/paste:

Finally got out and did some ACC testing on DCs & EMs. I took my NIN out and wore a bunch of evasion stuff in order to keep my ACC down. Then I used single wield dagger (capped skill on NIN = 230), and fired off a bunch of Wasp Stings on DC & EM Steelshells to see how my ACC ended up.

Well, I'm still seeing a pretty large ACC bonus on WS even when I'm fighting DCs and EMs exclusively. So I guess that means the theory that it's ignoring level correction is out, no?

Here's my gear... not a single piece of ACC in there (that's an evasion torque & Heart Snatcher). I didn't change any gear the entire duration of this parse.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j7...spsting_eq.jpg

And here's the parse:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j7..._waspsting.jpg

I had a single 1-TP return. If we only examine the first hit of any potential double attacks, that makes my total WS hit/miss to be 60/2 = 96.77% WS ACC.

So yeah... ~70% melee hits and capped WS ACC. Back to the drawing board I guess.

[Nameless]

Yea, same here with spinning slash. My melee accuracy is usually around 80-87% in merit and 95% on my WS always. Has to have something to do with ftp.

Sorry... what?

Well, I am assuming that WS accuracy is based on ftp, the higher it is the more accurate it is (take out range ws obviously xD). It just seem like alot of one hit ws have higher accuracy than the multi hit one, and the only thing I can relate is that almost all multi hit ws have low 1.0 ftp compare to those 1 hit ones that are popularly used such as Spinning slash.

I have heard a few complaints from my LS sams saying that the new sam JA that allows you to use 100% tp at a time misses more often than their regular ones. That could mean that at 100% tp, g/k/y have lower ftp, thus result in lower accuracy.

However, sidewinder or slugshot will break this theory immidiately as they have the highest ftp out of all ws but perhaps the worst accuracy. I don't play ranger so I don't know if it is really that bad. It is like ppl always say that SS have low accuracy, and I used to have the same impression up til I started parsing and saw myself at 95% ws hit rate or higher almost everytime. Yesterday in two parties at birds I did 108 ws and missed 4 while my melee accuarcy was about 86%. No brd acc song or evasion down weapon.

To question the above post that has two links. I read that JP website and it seems to say that accuracy applies to all hit. Then I read the LJ and the thf seems to think that the gorget is trash and isn't as good as spike necklace.... is it because of Dex? it doesn't really make sense... 0.05 or 0.1 ftp from gorget should have more effect on damage than 3 str and 3 dex? She thinks the gorget is trash even for 1 hit ws.... I am not sure if I get the message of that link.

[Hakamaru]

The post I just made above yours conclusively invalidates anything you're saying about fTP. Wasp Sting is poison duration modded by TP.

Sekkanoki causing unusually high WS miss rate is news to me. Seems like a placebo thing. After all, before that Alla thread back in February, everyone seemed to "know for a fact" that WS ACC is identical to melee ACC.

[Ferien]

SE nerfed that back when ROZ was new. I know wotg can make remembering the time you're in difficult but.. wut?

Apologies. Thought that since it still guaranteed the entire attack round, it applied to WS as well. Also, it doesn't explain why it works for other jobs/weapons though (see tests on Sturmwind from about a year ago).

Was it only nerfed for THF main? I won't even pretend to know all the subtleties of main THF...it's 37 and staying there forever.

[Nameless]

Ok, I see your point now.

So I am guessing as long as it is a one hit ws, regardless of its ftp, it will have much higher accuracy than regular hits, and it is not caused by ridding lvl correlation.

[Kirschy]

When I used ftp earlier, it's important not to confuse it /w the damage ftp multiplier that we know for sure exists and can be tested. I was only speculating that each WS had an additional hidden multiplier which would be a function of tp and be specific to each WS. This would explain multihit WS accuracy, Gekko/Kasha/Yukki having a clear acc bonus, sidewinder having an acc penalty, and WS which have their accuracy modified by TP. It also explains how Guillotine could have it's accuracy adjusted which was stated in a recent patch note.

From my own tests of Gekko in xp setting /w no equipment changes, I went from ~81% melee acc, to ~98% WS accuracy w/o any gear changed. Hakamaru went from ~70% melee to ~98% WS on DC/EM mobs /w another WS. Since hitting 75 I use less accuracy in my WS setup, have 0 GKT merits, and still hit capped acc on WS without gorget. This makes me feel strongly that the acc gained from gorgets on SAM is useless in merit and lesser situations. The damage increase being the only important factor.

[Seid]

SE nerfed that back when ROZ was new. I know wotg can make remembering the time you're in difficult but.. wut?

Apologies. Thought that since it still guaranteed the entire attack round, it applied to WS as well. Also, it doesn't explain why it works for other jobs/weapons though (see tests on Sturmwind from about a year ago).

Was it only nerfed for THF main? I won't even pretend to know all the subtleties of main THF...it's 37 and staying there forever.

Im confused as to what you meant here about the entire attack round.

[Osede]

SE nerfed that back when ROZ was new. I know wotg can make remembering the time you're in difficult but.. wut?

Apologies. Thought that since it still guaranteed the entire attack round, it applied to WS as well. Also, it doesn't explain why it works for other jobs/weapons though (see tests on Sturmwind from about a year ago).

Was it only nerfed for THF main? I won't even pretend to know all the subtleties of main THF...it's 37 and staying there forever.

stormwind might be an exception. The main reason was way back then mnk/thf doing the raging/combo can do a massive amount of damage too.

[Khajit]

SE nerfed that back when ROZ was new. I know wotg can make remembering the time you're in difficult but.. wut?

Apologies. Thought that since it still guaranteed the entire attack round, it applied to WS as well. Also, it doesn't explain why it works for other jobs/weapons though (see tests on Sturmwind from about a year ago).

Was it only nerfed for THF main? I won't even pretend to know all the subtleties of main THF...it's 37 and staying there forever.

Im confused as to what you meant here about the entire attack round.

he's refferring to how if you sneak attack and a ton of triple or double attacks proc on either hand they all have 100% acc.
/nin does give your ws an extra attack with the offhand that has 100% acc when used with SA or TA so i suppose the assumption was partially right in certain circumstances.

[fuergrissa]

So If the acc bonus from gorget is near-irrelevant for SAM, is there any piece which will give more damage bonus than gorget? It doesnt seem likely?

I'd like to see some acc tests for multihit's like Jin or Vorpal blade (would have to eliminate any chance for double attacks, and do it by hand rather than by parse). See if perhaps your acc on those recieves a bonus as well or if it is exactly the same as your melee acc in the same gear.

[RKenshin]

Sorry, haven't had a chance to respond to some of the responses and such in this thread... End of semester driving me nuts.

Are you accounting for the fact that the WS is considered a hit, even if the first hit misses? The obvious being here that if you Kaiten and it DA, and you miss the first hit or the DA hit, it's still considered a landed WS.

Only had two 1 TP returns in that PT, and while that changes things slightly it still is a buttload of acc.

Reading this reminded me to break out the gorget for Metsu, and has kinda given me inspiration to drop some ACC gear for metsu and stack DEX+

And since Kirschy and RK are both posting in this thread, to my knowledge, relic WS cannot crit, is this correct?

Confirmed by older tests that no known WS without 'can crit/TP improves crit-rate' in description can crit, outside of forcing it with SA or MS.

YGK are known for its pDIF and acc boost. When this change occured? I'm pretty sure it's before I took up my SAM to 60ish

I believe it may have been around/shortly after (and possibly before) NA release.

[Vyerz]

I was under the impression that the gorget adds around 10% acc/ 10% dmg <.<