NY shooting, cops acquitted

[Melchiah]

You don't have to count. The gun counts for you. When you deplete the magazine, the slide locks open and the gun will not recock itself unless you A) insert a full magazine and hit the slide release lever or B) just hit the slide release lever. In case B), you will have a cocked gun with no ammunition. In case A), you have to take the time to insert a fresh magazine. Time that you can use to re-evaluate the situation, unless you fail so epicly at multitasking that you have to watch yourself insert your fresh magazine and concentrate fully on this task lest you fuck it up somehow.

This coming from a person who at one point, after a lot of practice, could disassemble and reassemble an M-1 Carbine rifle in 59 seconds blindfolded(Yeah, it was stupid but my buddy and I were having a bigger-penis contest).

I propose that department marksmanship and gun handling training is substandard.

Edit: It takes about 6 seconds to empty a 17 round magazine. Quick math means about 3 rounds a second. It would take about that time to reload the weapon and re-acquire the target.

We don't know motivation, or this particular officer's level of training or his psyche evaluations. But from the evidence presented, he indicates either a desire to shoot until he runs out of rounds or substandard training/ability to maintain composure under pressure. Any one of these three things is a trait I do not want in Law Enforcement personnel.

And yet, in spite of not knowing motivation, level of training, or psyche evaluations, you're perfectly willing to pass judgement on him. That's what so great about this country: people who know fuck-all about things are qualified to make decisions about them.

I bolded the part you conveniently left out, k?

[Heian]

And yet, in spite of not knowing motivation, level of training, or psyche evaluations, you're perfectly willing to pass judgement on him. That's what so great about this country: people who know fuck-all about things are qualified to make decisions about them.

people pass judgments all the time,
in fact,
getting upset about people passing judgments, is quite hypocritically, passing a judgment.

Making a statement is not passing judgment, nice try on the semantics though.

[Xiona]

how is making a statement not a judgement? arent statements based off of judgements, thereby making them reflections of the judgements?

[Kuya]

If cops were robots we wouldn't have to deal with all this crap. Sure, we'd have to deal with the inevitable domination of mankind by our robot overlords, but certainly no racism.

[Chreman]

Depends if you consider robots a race

[Heian]

how is making a statement not a judgement? arent statements based off of judgements, thereby making them reflections of the judgements?

You confuse making a statement with making a judgment, a statement usually is pointing out a fact. A Fact has no bias, its true whether you like it or not.

[Silverbane]

I don't think you realize how fast bullets are fired. Also, 5 cops fired, so 10 bullets per person isn't really that much. With a standard issue pistol you can fire that off in maybe 4-5 seconds. Also, the guys who got shot drove directly at the officers standing in the street (the main point of discussion in the case were if the cops identified themselves because they were in plain clothes) and the officers fired when they felt they were threatened.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that cops fire their guns because they want to, I think the guys in the car were drunk and stupid, and tried to run over the cops. Of course Reverend Al will never say that, because they were black.

Uhmm get the facts straight, 1 Cop fired 31 shots.

[Nystul]

I still really just don't understand why this upsets people. I get the feeling it's because 31 shots leaves no room for survival...but there isn't supposed to be any. I've never really understood the significance of the number of rounds fired when these cases come up. Dead with 1 bullet and dead with 50 is still dead.

AGain- cops don't fire their gun to wound/slow/maim. The have a baton/pepper spray/tazer/etc for that. When the gun comes out, the decision to fire centers on using LETHAL force, not incapacitation.

[Melchiah]

I still really just don't understand why this upsets people. I get the feeling it's because 31 shots leaves no room for survival...but there isn't supposed to be any. I've never really understood the significance of the number of rounds fired when these cases come up. Dead with 1 bullet and dead with 50 is still dead.

AGain- cops don't fire their gun to wound/slow/maim. The have a baton/pepper spray/tazer/etc for that. When the gun comes out, the decision to fire centers on using LETHAL force, not incapacitation.

Because the cop indicates a desire for violence, for the sake of violence. He unloaded 31 rounds, the fact that such overkill was used indicates a problem.

[Nystul]

I still really just don't understand why this upsets people. I get the feeling it's because 31 shots leaves no room for survival...but there isn't supposed to be any. I've never really understood the significance of the number of rounds fired when these cases come up. Dead with 1 bullet and dead with 50 is still dead.

AGain- cops don't fire their gun to wound/slow/maim. The have a baton/pepper spray/tazer/etc for that. When the gun comes out, the decision to fire centers on using LETHAL force, not incapacitation.

Because the cop indicates a desire for violence, for the sake of violence. He unloaded 31 rounds, the fact that such overkill was used indicates a problem.

So shooting him was ok, but that it looks like he enjoyed it is the problem?

[Melchiah]

Now you understand.

[Dmitry]

I'm sure every trained person serving under any kind of american governing force be it police or military has been trained to the point where their lives in danger will not affect them in the slightest, am I right?

[Melchiah]

Sorry, but you can't reasonably sit there and claim "heat of the moment/stress/crazy situation when the motherfucker stopped shooting to reload, and emptied a second magazine. It just isn't reasonable.

[Dmitry]

But it happens in movies all the time...

/sarcasm.

But honestly, does a car stop moving right away even if the driver had been subdued? As long as that car was still coming at me, I would probably be trying to stop it in one way or another.

[Khamsin]

Sorry, but you can't reasonably sit there and claim "heat of the moment/stress/crazy situation when the motherfucker stopped shooting to reload, and emptied a second magazine. It just isn't reasonable.

Are police officers trained to empty only their currently loaded clip, or all their clips?

[Melchiah]

Sorry, but you can't reasonably sit there and claim "heat of the moment/stress/crazy situation when the motherfucker stopped shooting to reload, and emptied a second magazine. It just isn't reasonable.

Are police officers trained to empty only their currently loaded clip, or all their clips?

If they are, which I doubt, that is a poor substitute for proper marksmanship training. You don't need to put 50 rounds into a perp to neutralize him.

[Correction]

http://i26.tinypic.com/10r3kub.jpg

Mister Owl, how many bullets does it take to neutralize a black dude in a car?

[Melchiah]

Let's find out.

29...

30...

31.

31 bullets, NYPD.

[jmc]

Sorry, but you can't reasonably sit there and claim "heat of the moment/stress/crazy situation when the motherfucker stopped shooting to reload, and emptied a second magazine. It just isn't reasonable.

Are police officers trained to empty only their currently loaded clip, or all their clips?

If they are, which I doubt, that is a poor substitute for proper marksmanship training. You don't need to put 50 rounds into a perp to neutralize him.

From the sounds of it, they were more so going "Spray and pray" on the car, not the perp.

and were not trained to empty all our clips, just our single magazine which depending on standard issue firearms can carry 7 rounds in them, or like my sidearm can carry 13 rounds + 1 in the chamber.

Too many factors to really weigh in really for the shotting. Never will actually know what went on, but I will weigh in on the fact about the whole "Didnt know they were cops, just guys with guns coming at us"

Well, this dude had a pretty nasty background with the law from what ive seen/read...... i'm a firm believer that Perps always know who the cops are, and what they look like. heh

[Valisk]

http://i26.tinypic.com/10r3kub.jpg

Mister Owl, how many bullets does it take to neutralize a black dude in a car?

The world may never know.