Prenuptial agreements

[Maxxthepenguin]

yeah if you're a money-worshiping misanthrope.

Pre-nups = money worshiping?

lol

you value your money more than the person you're marrying, thus money > humanity, thus you've got that shit on a pedestal.

Stop being so idealistic. The truth is that more than half of marriages end in divorce.

And how many people marry for reasons such as religion forbidding sex outside marriage, drunkenness, purely sex based, abusive relationships, being 'the next step', for image reasons only, for financial convenience only?

All of those I say get a prenup for.

[Darus Grey]

still think there is a lot more worth that people can contribute to their relationship than wealth.

Understood, but that was kinda my point. How often in a relationship do both partners really provide equal or even close to equal amounts of worth, both in terms of monetary worth and social/labor worth.

Virtually never. In-fact it's far more the exception. In human relationships one partner is almost always dominant be it aggressively or passively.

Relationships are never about equality(men and women are not equal, and never can be, balanced is another argument, but certainly not equal).

[Kuya]

"for better or for worse"

easy solution is just don't get married in the first place if you're that concerned about your assets. get engaged so you have a ring and call it good.

People marry for alot of different reasons, some people even marry because of assets(what marriage was created for in the first place for the western world), and in those cases a pre-nup is the obvious decision. However, even if assets wasn't the reason you got married in the first place, when the love is gone, and the marriage goes south, you're still going to be the one crying once she decides to "take the next step" and take half of what you got, regardless of whether she deserved it or not.

So whether you find money more important than people or not, nobody is going to enjoy having half their fortune taken away. And trust me, if it's goten to that point, you're not going to be happy about it at all.

[Churchill]

I think the numbers from Divorce Attorneys and Social Workers and Marriage Counselors is something like, 90% of people go into marriage thinking it will last forever and that person is the one.

And we all know that the divorce rate is over 50%.

I have my own reasons for why I think the divorce rate is so high, but regardless of whether those apply to me or not - like someone said a few posts up, you never know what kind of crazy shit can happen that will displace two people who may have been married forever without issues. I'm a 22 year old kid with more money and accumulated wealth than people who have worked their entire lives. I've made it all myself, I've invested it all myself, I've made the deals and had the failures myself. When I do get married, it will all still belong to me, at least the portions of it that can't be looted.

I do think that springing a pre-nup on someone last minute is the wrong way to do it though. I usually let girls I date know about it pretty early, that way they can want to break up with me in the next month or be fine with it. I haven't had that be why I've broken up with a girl yet, but they've never signed one either. Most women I date don't have issues with it, but for their sake as well I guess.

[Maxxthepenguin]

still think there is a lot more worth that people can contribute to their relationship than wealth.

Understood, but that was kinda my point. How often in a relationship do both partners really provide equal or even close to equal amounts of worth, both in terms of monetary worth and social/labor worth.

Virtually never. In-fact it's far more the exception. In human relationships one partner is almost always dominant be it aggressively or passively.

Relationships are never about equality(men and women are not equal, and never can be, balanced is another argument, but certainly not equal).

By equal I think you mean the same.

As far as the worth, the problem is we are dealing with the financial aspects. If the male has a higher paying career (as is often the case) and the female chooses to get a lower paying job with hours that fit with the male's, she is sacrificing money for the sake of the relationship. She is putting in a lot of worth into the relationship. In a divorce, you can't salvage that worth. That is why you have the half and half splits, because there is so much that can matter beyond financial worth that it is simpler to do half and half. I think courts also don't do half and half splits when it is obvious that one partner didn't do shit, and that is fair.



btw, alimony is bullshit and is a whole other can of worms.

[Churchill]

Courts favor the women unless the guy pays out the ass for a hotshit attorney AND you're in a state where the courts aren't super liberal.

The problem is most men give up at that point, and lose everything.

[Maxxthepenguin]

"for better or for worse"

easy solution is just don't get married in the first place if you're that concerned about your assets. get engaged so you have a ring and call it good.

People marry for alot of different reasons, some people even marry because of assets(what marriage was created for in the first place for the western world), and in those cases a pre-nup is the obvious decision. However, even if assets wasn't the reason you got married in the first place, when the love is gone, and the marriage goes south, you're still going to be the one crying once she decides to "take the next step" and take half of what you got, regardless of whether she deserved it or not.

So whether you find money more important than people or not, nobody is going to enjoy having half their fortune taken away. And trust me, if it's goten to that point, you're not going to be happy about it at all.

Absolutely not, but the partner who is getting the 'undeserved money' sure as hell isn't going to be happy that she has spent all that time working at a lower paying or no job instead of being career motivated. Happiness isn't going to be a part of the equation here anyways in most cases. A lot of women make choices in relationships to sacrifice career for the relationship (or for the kids). They get screwed over too.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Courts favor the women unless the guy pays out the ass for a hotshit attorney AND you're in a state where the courts aren't super liberal.

The problem is most men give up at that point, and lose everything.

I'd be pretty fucking amazed if some guy lost everything in a divorce.

[Feedmenow]

yeah if you're a money-worshiping misanthrope.

So being precautions with the rewards of your work is money-worshiping?

Also deriving the OP thinks "Money > Humanity" is a fucking huge stretch.

[Beckwin]

again, if your assets are more important to you than sharing a life with your partner, then I'd say marriage isn't for you.

i'm not saying to outlaw pre-nups (if people really want to make contracts then whatever), but expressing my opinion that they're lame and undermining toward the relationship.

[Feedmenow]

again, if your assets are more important to you than sharing a life with your partner, then I'd say marriage isn't for you.

If that was true, then the guy would have broken up the relationship already.

[Kuya]

"for better or for worse"

easy solution is just don't get married in the first place if you're that concerned about your assets. get engaged so you have a ring and call it good.

People marry for alot of different reasons, some people even marry because of assets(what marriage was created for in the first place for the western world), and in those cases a pre-nup is the obvious decision. However, even if assets wasn't the reason you got married in the first place, when the love is gone, and the marriage goes south, you're still going to be the one crying once she decides to "take the next step" and take half of what you got, regardless of whether she deserved it or not.

So whether you find money more important than people or not, nobody is going to enjoy having half their fortune taken away. And trust me, if it's goten to that point, you're not going to be happy about it at all.

Absolutely not, but the partner who is getting the 'undeserved money' sure as hell isn't going to be happy that she has spent all that time working at a lower paying or no job instead of being career motivated. Happiness isn't going to be a part of the equation here anyways in most cases. A lot of women make choices in relationships to sacrifice career for the relationship (or for the kids). They get screwed over too.

Divorce settlements don't usually involve the distribution of assets according to each party's contribution to the relationship. Especially not contributions that aren't especially quantifiable. Besides you're not arguing agaisnt pre-nups, but equal consideration in case of a divorce when considering who deserves what, and the problem being that divorces tend to be very one-sided.

again, if your assets are more important to you than sharing a life with your partner, then I'd say marriage isn't for you.

Actually quite the opposite, if you do not care at all about assets, then you have no reason to be marrying at all. You do not need marriage to be in love or to stay in love, while on the otherhand, if you're more interested in it for economic reasons, then you have all the more reason to get married. Marriage was made as a business deal, not for romantic purposes, however this does not mean that one cannot get married out of love.

[Churchill]

If you don't care about wealth or assets you have no reason to be alive. Wealth and assets being tied to your actual ability as a human.

[Maxxthepenguin]

If you don't care about wealth or assets you have no reason to be alive. Wealth and assets being tied to your actual ability as a human.

You live a shallow life, Churchill.

Alternate response: Then why do you post on an internet forum, let alone play a MMORPG?

[Beckwin]

If you don't care about wealth or assets you have no reason to be alive. Wealth and assets being tied to your actual ability as a human.

I'd say with that attitude, you might as well be dead.

[Feedmenow]

How about caring for both, as they are each pretty fucking important issues?

[Beckwin]

Actually quite the opposite, if you do not care at all about assets, then you have no reason to be marrying at all. You do not need marriage to be in love or to stay in love, while on the otherhand, if you're more interested in it for economic reasons, then you have all the more reason to get married. Marriage was made as a business deal, not for romantic purposes, however this does not mean that one cannot get married out of love.

you could also argue that the first marriages (or permanent (half)monogamous relationships recognized by a society) were simply marking human territory and social posturing, but whatever- that's clearly not the case or an absolute today. Maybe "not caring about assets at all" is too ambiguous, but I personally think it should be to the point where you want to give someone/share with them everything in life.

[Kaylia]

Stop being so idealistic. The truth is that more than half of marriages end in divorce.

The truth is that more than 3/4 of the people are fucktard.

And how many people marry for reasons such as religion forbidding sex outside marriage, drunkenness, purely sex based, abusive relationships, being 'the next step', for image reasons only, for financial convenience only?

If they married for religion, they are even less likely to divorce.


I'm with Beckwin on this one. I seriously don't see the point of getting married if you can't trust your partner enough with something like this. If you're not ready to take the risk, you're definitively not ready to marry.

[archibaldcrane]

Couldn't a pre-nup be a symbol that regardless of the financial successes that either partner has in his or her life, money won't be an important factor in the success or failure of the relationship?

It's not like men are the only people who are able to earn money - or is that what we're assuming here?

[Jer]

Signing an agreement doesn't mean you won't share your life or whatnot with them. Unless one person actually planned on doing nothing, I don't see what the problem is.

By the same token used above, if people are in love signing one shouldn't mean anything or prevent them from being together. If somebody was so adamant they would call off the wedding if you insisted on a pre-nup, I'd say they were planning on taking you for a ride in more ways than one.