Prenuptial agreements

[Kuya]

Or instead of complaining about prenuptial agreements and the fact that people get married at all when they're not ready (most of them aren't and they probably won't be for years), perhaps we should be complaining about the antiquated marriage system that is clearly not up to date with 21st century standards. It is very evident that the system isn't very fair at the moment. If assets were distributed depending on contribution within a relationship, and if they relied less under the assumption that the man is the main income producer by large margins, then perhaps there wouldn't be that much of a need for prenups.

[Faris]

lol prenup all the way man. You never know what will happen in the future.
Dont feel like a dick about it, if she gets "offended" by your proposal then expect problems from the start.

I dont know in this day and age, a woman and a man can survive just equally, no need to take the man's assets, fuck that. If a woman gets offended by a prenup agreement, its like getting offended for not having a chance on robbing your ass. Come to UAE get married here, dont need to be put in this awkward position, she takes what she owns and you take what you own, if shit hits the fan.

But also, dont make her feel like you see problems in the future, thats why you're insuring yourself. Its all about how you say it.

[Norelco]

I can see where your girl is coming from though. Even though you don't mean it, she's taking the pre-nup as you thinking the relationship probably won't last. Sounds like you're around 18 years of age...you'll probably be in a few more relationships past this girl, and so will she, but from a woman's perspective they don't want to believe they're in a relationship that is going to end.

edit: to sum things up. Men think rationally, women think emotionally.

[Shuemue]

edit: to sum things up. Men think rationally, women think emotionally.

In my opinion, in this day and age, in the western world there is very little stigma apportioned to those who don't marry. I feel personally that there's no need to get married unless I trust the other person completely and I'm willing to share everything. Moreover, I think most of the men posting in this thread desperately need to think more emotionally.

[Churchill]

Emotions are a crutch.

[fantasticdan]

Actually quite the opposite, if you do not care at all about assets, then you have no reason to be marrying at all. You do not need marriage to be in love or to stay in love, while on the otherhand, if you're more interested in it for economic reasons, then you have all the more reason to get married. Marriage was made as a business deal, not for romantic purposes, however this does not mean that one cannot get married out of love.

I agree with this. If I love someone and want to live with them for my remaining years, I don't need a legally binding arrangement to prove it. Outside of tax breaks, health insurance from your employer that your partner may be ineligible for otherwise, and things of that nature, I can't see a real reason to marry someone you actually want to share your life with, it's not like it holds relationships together, except possibly for religious folks?

On the other hand, I would marry a rich woman for whom I might not really care about.

[Fhqwghads]

I'm 38, never been married, plenty of long-term relationships though. I don't even believe in marriage. However, I am engaged. My fiancee has mild anxiety under stressful situations, especially when there's too much responsibility heaped on her. This makes it really difficult for her to be employed, and hence she has no insurance. We've been dating and living together for over five years. I felt comfortable enough with her to be married to her, with one of the driving forces behind it getting her on my insurance. If insurance wasn't an issue, I'd probably never have asked her to marry me. There's only so many medical and dental bills I'm willing to pay out of pocket though, so this is a logical step.

That being said, I am getting a prenup. It's not because I don't love or trust her. It's more for protecting and future-proofing myself in the event that something unforeseen occurrs. Call me shallow and interested more in my assets than my feelings for her, but I've spent the last 20 years of my life getting to where I'm at now. To take a gamble on whether or not she would turn into a vindictive nutjob if we grew apart over the years is foolish. One of the things I've learned is that people change. You may be endeared with someone presently, and find all sorts of similar interests and things you have in common, and the horizon is infinite, possibilities endless, blah blah blah. It doesn't stay that way most of the time. To leave your future up to chance is irrational. Secure your investments and don't take chances. If you never need a prenup, it's not a big deal. But if you do need a prenup and one is not in place, enjoy cussing into your top ramen while living in a one bedroom apartment and shelling out half your paycheck to a person who is dating some other man.

[Andarvi]

While I understand the arguments being put forth concerning getting a prenup, I personally will not get one. In my eyes, personally, and I know people will disagree, there is a small contradiction with saying that you love someone and trust them completely, obviously enough to enter an establishment that is supposed to be indefinite with them, and then saying that you are signing a prenup "just in case." Yes, I know, shit happens. My parents divorced after just four years of marriage (dad's a dog) and my mom remarried and divorced again, the second guy taking her to the well, getting several tens of thousands of dollars from her 401k. She was on the rebound when she married him and paid dearly for it.

As far as I go, I have had two serious relationships that lasted years each. Both of these women I know without the shadow of a doubt that if we got married and subsequently divorced they would not do to me what my mom's exhusband did to her. Its just not in their character. This rule does not apply if I cheated on them, because a woman scorned is impossible to predict, or if we had children involved, in which I would be willing to give up more money, im sure. I also know that if I approached them about a prenup they would surely be offended and hurt, and I partially agree. I dont want to start a marriage of all things out with a contract/escape clause that is supposing the worst case scenario. I know its idealistic and one of the few things I am old fashioned about.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tyche]

I don't mean to sound condscending, but what kind of dead end jobs do people work that don't offer medical insurance? Even being self-employed, you can get insurance fairly cheap. I think my stepdad (self-employed) pays a couple hundred bucks a month and he's over 50. I pay about $75 a month (company foots half, so looking at about $150 a month). I've spent about 10 years worth of insurance on the damn wedding so far.

[#686578]

.

[Tyche]

Just a general question really, as the topic of insurance has come up a few times already, and I was again reminded of it when he posted. I just never understood why people either A) Thought insurance was so difficult to get that marriage is the best option, or B) Think so little of marriage that the only reason for it is to save money.

[TacoTaru]

edit: to sum things up. Men think rationally, women think emotionally.

In my opinion, in this day and age, in the western world there is very little stigma apportioned to those who don't marry. I feel personally that there's no need to get married unless I trust the other person completely and I'm willing to share everything. Moreover, I think most of the men posting in this thread desperately need to think more emotionally.

Agreed. I don't know the statistics on divorce rate vs. time spent together (living together, in relationship, and other variables) but marrying someone is the finalization of your relationship with someone. If you don't want to share your shit, then don't do it; like someone else said, get engaged, have the ring, and enjoy it. If you have enough money that you're too self absorbed to share it with the one you think you'll be spending the rest of your life with, then you don't need any of the small benefits that come with marriage anyway.

[Shuemue]

Fhqwghads's (Right use of apostrophe?)

Wouldn't it be Fhqwghads' instead, like Jesus' drops the second s?

[Woozie]

"Honey, I love and trust you with all my heart and soul. I'll be with you forever, for better or worse. I'll always be here for you.

But just in case I change my mind, I need you to sign this legally binding contract..."

Sorry, but if you need a prenup, then you shouldn't be getting married. Don't marry someone unless you're willing to stick it out for life and you know that you can love and trust her till death.

And stop citing these statistics about marriage. Most marriages end because people these days are getting married when they really shouldn't. No, I wont elaborate on this point because there's no reason for anyone to not see the problems with today's marriages.

edit: to sum things up. Men think rationally, women think emotionally.

In my opinion, in this day and age, in the western world there is very little stigma apportioned to those who don't marry. I feel personally that there's no need to get married unless I trust the other person completely and I'm willing to share everything. Moreover, I think most of the men posting in this thread desperately need to think more emotionally.

I'm with Shuemue/Beckwin/etc on this one.

[Fhqwghads]

I'd be interested in knowing how many people who are so adamant about not needing a pre-nup are married and have a lot of assets they accumulated prior to their marriage. If you don't have a lot at risk it's really easy to make flippant remarks because you've never had to weigh what the ramifications of a messy divorce could potentially be. Unless you can predict the future and/or are a mind reader you will never know what can happen. I've never been big on gambling, and there's way too much at stake to just blindly hope that the person you're marrying won't ruin your life at some point.

[Darus Grey]

"Honey, I love and trust you with all my heart and soul. I'll be with you forever, for better or worse. I'll always be here for you.

But just in case I change my mind, I need you to sign this legally binding contract..."

Sorry, but if you need a prenup, then you shouldn't be getting married. Don't marry someone unless you're willing to stick it out for life and you know that you can love and trust her till death.

Who should be getting married? By that logic a prenup and marriage are the same thing, which implies all marriage is wrong(which I dont disagree with).

[Kuya]

I think it's rather pointless to argue at this point. You guys seem adament on believing that you can know another person with absolute certainty when no one in the history of mankind could possibly lay claim to this. It's silly how some of you toss the word forever around as if it actually meant something. You can't imagine forever, and more than likely your forever ins't going to be very long.

Either way, there is no point to marriage unless you need some sort of benefit from it, in which case you're considering it as a form of business, which goes hand in hand with a pre-nup. You guys can persist on being romantic about the whole thing, but at the very least don't berrate the people who choose to be cautious about something as risky as a marriage under some pretense that only showed up as of the 19th century. It's their choice if they want to be realistic about the entire situation, you should take that into account instead of indirectly declaring them dicks, because it conflicts with your view on marriage.

[Deejay]

What Kuya said.

[Seraph]

"Honey, I love and trust you with all my heart and soul. I'll be with you forever, for better or worse. I'll always be here for you.

But just in case I change my mind, I need you to sign this legally binding contract..."

Sorry, but if you need a prenup, then you shouldn't be getting married. Don't marry someone unless you're willing to stick it out for life and you know that you can love and trust her till death.

And stop citing these statistics about marriage. Most marriages end because people these days are getting married when they really shouldn't. No, I wont elaborate on this point because there's no reason for anyone to not see the problems with today's marriages.

edit: to sum things up. Men think rationally, women think emotionally.

In my opinion, in this day and age, in the western world there is very little stigma apportioned to those who don't marry. I feel personally that there's no need to get married unless I trust the other person completely and I'm willing to share everything. Moreover, I think most of the men posting in this thread desperately need to think more emotionally.

I'm with Shuemue/Beckwin/etc on this one.

I think a better quote is "I don't want this to be about the money."

Getting a prenup is funny in a way, because most of the cases I see, if a man/women both willingly sign a prenup, it was pointless to begin with. Sure, things go wrong, people change. Generally speaking, a man/woman refusing to sign a prenup or being offended by it is just about as bad as the partner asking to have it signed. If they refuse to sign it then it was about the money.

With that being said, I do have to side with the "If you are really ready to be married, you don't need a prenup" crowd. Wait a few years, make sure he/she is the one, and make time with the person your insurance policy. Speaking from personal experience, if you can get a woman to wait around a few years for a ring, chances are you are going to be alright, and have a better grasp on her personality. Same goes for women though, if he waits a little while to ask, to make sure he is......sure, you know it's not all about getting you into bed.

[Sigi]

Honestly, I could see it both ways. I WISH my dad signed a prenup with his current wife, since she has done little but drain his funds and try to claim his property as her own. She's recently got a job, so hopefully things will improve. However, I doubt it...

I see no problem with signing a prenup as long as it's fair to both parties. The woman getting huffy about you asking her needs to think long and hard about how willing *SHE* is to share her own assets with you if the relationship went south.

Edit: Seraph stated my feelings on the topic precisely.