Westwood College Online

[Penthesilea]

Drexel's is a 5 or 6 year program. It's a 4 year, BA in something or other, only reason for it taking 5 or 6 years is that drexel takes two trimesters off at a time for a co-op within the industry.

If you're set on game design, go to Drexel, and when you realize it sucks, just join their CS department (or whatever you're into at that point).

[Lordwafik]

Nystul, the things you're saying about how unstable gaming is and such, and doing gaming specific courses, that might have been true 10 years ago, but it's a much different world out there now.

Gaming isn't going away, it is as "dead" as film and cinema are. The only problem is there are many people studying and not enough places hiring, also not enough ground up starter companies producing content that gets accepted by a publisher.

A problem I had after finishing my course, which I chose a generalized course, was I couldn't find a job anywhere really. I chose something more generalized so I can fall back on doing animation for movies instead if gaming industry refuses, but I just got denied left and right I was unlucky, not due to the quality of my work (Not gloating, but it's pretty nice even for today).

I work in a semi related field now (Graphic design) due to all the photoshop I've been self teaching myself since 2000 or so, but I still am always keeping an eye out for Digipen One day I'll have enough to go there

[Nystul]

The one I participated in was a 4 year program for sure some people took even longer because you cannot graduate without creating a 1.5-3minute demo reel that has approval from the Dean of the department and your professor. And like I said just because these are called Game Design programs does not mean you cannot apply the knowledge to other fields of digital art. If you are halfway smart and even 1/4 decent at it there are tons and tons of jobs out there that utilize the same skills as what you learn in a Game Design and Art major.

edit: Assumptions get you into an area where you start talking about something without covering your bases and lead to leaving out many scenarios.

<_< This is the fundamental problem with your rebuttals to me. I'm *supporting* going to a 4 year university, I'm *against* going to an institution that does nothing BUT game design such as westwood/fullsail/etc because their accreditation is suspect. I don't see anything wrong in going to an *actual* university and getting a bachelors in game design because at a 4 year school you're getting a wide array of education. The OP was looking to do an online program instead of attending a local university for a bachelor's in something like comp sci. Thats what I'm talking about. If you don't have a design program at an *actual* university near you, you're better off doing the comp sci or something at local state U than a design program at westwood.

Wafik- Nothing is certain in this world, and when you have an industry that is expanding rapidly, with more and more people wanting to go into it and a US economy heading into recession you're going to be left with companies downsizing and a LOT of people trying to compete for very few jobs. I'm by no means saying no one should try. What I'm saying is that it's risky-like anything is risky- so you're crazy if you don't provide yourself with some wiggle room. It takes virtually no effort, why NOT do it?

For the record, though I've said it already- my suggestion is to:
1. Get a degree at a 4 year institution- for the OP who doesn't have a game design program close, do it in something like comp sci or whatever.
THEN
2. Spend some time doing something like fullsail or westwood or a specialized program.

you can get a job using degree 1 to fund the cost of degree 2, you have degree 1 to fall back on should getting a job be hard, you make yourself a much more attractive hire in the gaming industry because you have a stronger educational background, you put yourself in a higher pay bracket because you have more education...Now, if you still want to tell me what I'm saying is silly then...mmmmkay go ahead I guess <_<

[zoobernut]

The reason why I was rebutting was because you did not specify online or 2 year program in your posts you were generalizing that all game design programs fail because if you did not make it into the game industry which is extremely difficult that you would have nothing of value from your education. My point was that this was too broad of a statement and misleading because there is a way to study Game design and Art and not be stuck or screwed if you cannot get a job with a game company.

I agree with you I think if the OP cannot move they should not go to a 2 year program or a non accredited program they should do comp. sci. at a 4 year college and then move on to other specializations after they have a degree. When I went to college I was willing to move and I found a 4 year program that worked for me.

The way I like to think about it is for a 4 year Game Design major they took essentially a graphic art program and an animation program stuck them together and then made everything pertain to Games but the skills are still there.

[Nystul]

The reason why I was rebutting was because you did not specify online or 2 year program

and I quote the first line of the first post I made in this thread:

you'd be shooting yourself in the foot going to a game design-specific school.

Note the "school" not "major".

[Foof]

The reason why I was rebutting was because you did not specify online or 2 year program

and I quote the first line of the first post I made in this thread:

you'd be shooting yourself in the foot going to a game design-specific school.

Note the "school" not "major".

Digipen is a game design school. Not every game design school is running 2 year/online programs, if that's what you're trying to say.

[Nystul]

The reason why I was rebutting was because you did not specify online or 2 year program

and I quote the first line of the first post I made in this thread:

you'd be shooting yourself in the foot going to a game design-specific school.

Note the "school" not "major".

Digipen is a game design school. Not every game design school is running 2 year/online programs, if that's what you're trying to say.

I still think you'd be better off getting a 4 year degree THEN going to a place like digipen rather than just doing the trade school.

[Darus Grey]

Digipen is a game design school. Not every game design school is running 2 year/online programs, if that's what you're trying to say.

Calling those programs "two year" is misleading. They're four year programs with you taking the equivalent of 24-30 credit hours a semester(and all the work associated with that).

You can finish a normal degree at a 4yr school in the same amount of time if you're willing to put in that kinda effort.

[Kaelan]

Digipen is a game design school. Not every game design school is running 2 year/online programs, if that's what you're trying to say.

Eh it's not really design. You don't really ever spend much time learning how to design anything (as in what real Designers do), 99% of the time you're learning how to actually make the stuff other people design (i.e. usually you don't get graded on your design, just on the quality of the implementation). You're trained either in heavy math and programming or art, depending on your major. They only actually started offering real "design" degrees this year and it still has a sort of tentative "eh, we don't really know what we're gonna do with this yet" kind of feel about it. I do agree with nystul that right now, a pure design degree like that is a bad idea, the other two technical ones are fine though.

[zoobernut]

The reason why I was rebutting was because you did not specify online or 2 year program

and I quote the first line of the first post I made in this thread:

you'd be shooting yourself in the foot going to a game design-specific school.

Note the "school" not "major".

I don't understand how you make the jump from what I saw to quoting yourself saying something different. Game Design-Specific school in no way dictates what kind of program it is with respect to time or location.

And yes again you are over generalizing the situation. Sticking with your terminology if you find a school that ONLY teaches Game Design (which I have never personally seen they all have programming or animation programs too) You are still going to learn a lot about art creation for games and that knowledge is still going to help you get a job in a lot of different art related fields other than just the game industry.

Education even at a 4 year university is very specific and narrow within the scope of a major and a persons ability to branch out to different specialties and use their education to their own advantage is based on their motivation and not how the school taught them.

[Nystul]

The reason why I was rebutting was because you did not specify online or 2 year program

and I quote the first line of the first post I made in this thread:

you'd be shooting yourself in the foot going to a game design-specific school.

Note the "school" not "major".

I don't understand how you make the jump from what I saw to quoting yourself saying something different. Game Design-Specific school in no way dictates what kind of program it is with respect to time or location.

And yes again you are over generalizing the situation. Sticking with your terminology if you find a school that ONLY teaches Game Design (which I have never personally seen they all have programming or animation programs too) You are still going to learn a lot about art creation for games and that knowledge is still going to help you get a job in a lot of different art related fields other than just the game industry.

Education even at a 4 year university is very specific and narrow within the scope of a major and a persons ability to branch out to different specialties and use their education to their own advantage is based on their motivation and not how the school taught them.

Umm...at westwood college or whatever, you get a certificate of completion, or at best an unaccredited bachelor's degree. The difference is this point. I wish you'd follow where I'm going with this. I simply stressed that the #1 priority is to get a a bachelor's degree at an accredited university. For what isn't so much important as simply having it. If you want to go to a game design school for some additional training after, then great. Education at a 4 year university involves non-major courses (you didn't take 100% art/design for 4 years right? Some science credits, some language credits, some humanities, etc). It includes a standardized curriculum. It includes an assumption that you learned from people who knew what they were doing. Keep in mind that I made this post based on the OP's situation NOT YOURS. Consider my comments in the context of HIS decisions. Yes, you did something different. Great. We're not talking about that. He did not ask about a design program at a local university. He was comparing a college degree with a game design school program. Thats what we're looking at. Given THOSE TWO OPTIONS, are you REALLY going to say I'm wrong, he should go to westwood, skip getting a BS? Are you really arguing that? Because the idea of going to a real university for a game design program was NOT ONE OF THE GIVEN OPTIONS.

Down the road, if you are applying for a job IN the gaming industry you have a bachelor's degree and specific training from a gaming school which makes you FAR more competitive than all the people that just went to a game design school like westwood or whatever. If not, then you have a degree from Westwood college and...you're less competitive than the better educated people and you have basically no fallback options (even a 4 year degree in game design gives you options because many companies first round of cuts is simply to look at level of education, and you can spin your experience to meet their needs. WIth a westood degree, any job who's minimum requirements are "bachelor's degree" you fail to qualify for).


So for the fucking 10th time in this thread- I never said anything about a program at an actual university. The OP was talking about leaving behind the effort to get a bachelor's in order to get through a program like westwood. I said that would be stupid because having a bachelor's degree affords you more options. Now, do you really have any arguments against that concept that don't involve you feeling like I insulted your degree even though I didn't?

[zoobernut]

No I think we both did not understand each other and got crossed up somewhere. I don't feel like you insulted my degree, I know it was an accredited BS program it is a 4 year program and I did take a lot of GE classes. I agree with you that you must be very careful about where you go to school and what kind of education you get.

Not only does the school need to be accredited but the individual programs need to be accredited as well. When you visit the school they have to have the papers stating that they are accredited out and you should ask to see them.