05/02/2008 The Myriad Arms of Balrahn

[Tajin]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this theory yet...

I said it in page 3 or 4, but thanks for reading :D

[Vedder]

Who cares if it's casual or structured, as long as it doesn't rely on massive amounts of gil to complete.

Shit could take a year, but as long as it was pretty fun, not mind-numbing, and provided a worthwhile reward at the end, I say it's all good.

[vanimedle]

You have a pretty pitiful outlook on what's helpful and what's a luxury. At what point does something become beneficiary to the group? If you want to be realistic, Aegis isn't doing nearly as much for the group as it is for the tank and/or healers. Your tank is either tanking, or he's not - All Aegis is doing is making his job that much easier. Offensive relic weapons on the other hand, are having a direct impact on the speed of the fight, minuscule as they may be.

I suppose you're right about Gjallarhorn, but I personally have only ever looked at it as a low-man tool. The only way it would speed up a battle in a practical manner is through MP recovery, which is only as useful as the enmity level of your Black Mages.

It's all a luxury much like the game itself, everything can be done without any of the relics, as far as considering the shield and the horn as the most useful of them for a group, yes they are, less mp spent/more gained back, low man or otherwise. Tank spends time healing himself or melee/durka durka blms still same amount of hate being generated, and your healers spend more time getting buffs on or enfeebling rather then having to cure melee/durka durka blms or the tank. Ghorn pretty much enables the damage from durka durka. All in all shorter more controlled fights, time left to xp, craft, cyber, or whatever else flips your tutu in this game I can honestly say I have yet to see that benefit from any of the other relics.

[Drex]

The BRD dagger will require birdman cape

And edit since everyone's riding g-horn's jock: LSes should upgrade relics for people, not for jobs. I'd rather give a great DRK an apoc than upgrade 10 aegis for shitty paladins and 10 horns for shitty bards.

[Vedder]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this theory yet...

I said it in page 3 or 4, but thanks for reading :D

Hahaha... we should all know by now that the over/under for people repeating the same shit that was said before in announcement/speculation threads is usually 3-4 pages.

[miokomioko]

I'm just happy about the lack of competition for Inferno Claws. As well as the high demand for BRD in Nyzul PPTs.

[Zilong]

http://www.lurkmore.com/w/images/f/f4/Fate_136.jpg

Sorry if someone already brought it up, but that was the first thing that came to my mind.

[Tsuko_Asura]

You have a pretty pitiful outlook on what's helpful and what's a luxury. At what point does something become beneficiary to the group? If you want to be realistic, Aegis isn't doing nearly as much for the group as it is for the tank and/or healers. Your tank is either tanking, or he's not - All Aegis is doing is making his job that much easier. Offensive relic weapons on the other hand, are having a direct impact on the speed of the fight, minuscule as they may be.

I suppose you're right about Gjallarhorn, but I personally have only ever looked at it as a low-man tool. The only way it would speed up a battle in a practical manner is through MP recovery, which is only as useful as the enmity level of your Black Mages.

It's all a luxury much like the game itself, everything can be done without any of the relics, as far as considering the shield and the horn as the most useful of them for a group, yes they are, less mp spent/more gained back, low man or otherwise. Tank spends time healing himself or melee/durka durka blms still same amount of hate being generated, and your healers spend more time getting buffs on or enfeebling rather then having to cure melee/durka durka blms or the tank. Ghorn pretty much enables the damage from durka durka. All in all shorter more controlled fights, time left to xp, craft, cyber, or whatever else flips your tutu in this game I can honestly say I have yet to see that benefit from any of the other relics.

I'm not saying any one relic weapon isn't a luxury, that isn't at all the basis of my comment.

Obviously Gjallarhorn and Aegis will lessen the strain on a fight, but if there isn't a strain to begin with, what exactly are they offering that is helping the group? You speak of these two relics lessening the distractions of your healers/enhancers, but what exactly would they be doing otherwise? Neither of those two weapons speed up the rate in which you can kill something, while offensive relics do(again, as minuscule a difference it may be).

Making a fight easier for three people =/= Benefiting an entire alliance

Speeding up a battle ever so slightly = Benefiting an entire alliance


I'm not trying to start an argument with you, but your logic is based on a stigma that had just as little basis now as it did three+ years ago.

[Feielle]

Or maybe they release another form of assault in that area.

Yeah, but I used more words to explain the theory >.>

And yes, I said "Perma" earlier, because thats really the easiest way to complete something like this, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way in order to attain all the goals I outlined. Dynamis also doesn't need to have a set time - you could just go whenever enough people had some free time - but a perma is a wee bit more effecient.

Not that I know a damn thing about this more than anyone else does. Also, as a BLM and SMN main, these had damn well better be more beneficial than my +1 staves & Bahamut's staff.

[Indalecia]

Also, as a BLM and SMN main, these had damn well better be more beneficial than my +1 staves & Bahamut's staff.

Seconded

[ronin sparthos]

Who cares if it's casual or structured, as long as it doesn't rely on massive amounts of gil to complete.

Shit could take a year, but as long as it was pretty fun, not mind-numbing, and provided a worthwhile reward at the end, I say it's all good.

So long as it doesnt require massive amounts of gil and actually engages the player via collecting items on their own time or doing more nyzul-esque missions within alzadaal or the 3 secret islands then id call it a job well done.

Yes, many things can be called a grind but none reach the level of self-funding a relic weapon via sponsering dynamis. If you've done it or know someone whos done it - kudos to them, they are hardcore players but for the average player it just isnt possible. 1m isnt as easy to make as it used to be.

SE pitched these relics as something more along the lines of what salvage is to endgame - 'it'll take a while but eventually you'll get what you want'. Lets hope that half the grind was reaching floor 100 nyzul (an endevour in and of itself) and the other half is doing something fun and engaging. 1000 qutrub bandages to prove your a skilled enough DRK to get the spear-scythe GO and 1000 merrow scales to prove you are pirate enough to handle the recoil of a one-armed cannon.

And a pre-grats to every zilart relic owner who will be getting a huge buff when this hits the ground, i expect to hear more SAM QQing and arguements about how Claustrum has been made too powerful and needs to be nerfed. It'll be a glorious day that claustrum becomes the broken relic weapon just to ram that stick up every endgamers ass that lol'd it.

[Callisto]

Who cares if it's casual or structured, as long as it doesn't rely on massive amounts of gil to complete.

Shit could take a year, but as long as it was pretty fun, not mind-numbing, and provided a worthwhile reward at the end, I say it's all good.

I agree with that all the way, that's my only concern. I have no problem tossing my weeknights towards playing the game, but I just honestly suck at making gil. Some of it is just bad luck and some is having little free time outside of LS events due to a 9-6 job, but some weeks I barely cover the 60k for Limbus, much less 2m to upgrade a Dynamis Relic.

I'm genuinely excited at the possibility that I could maybe get something that is COR-specific that actually outdoes Martial Gun/Coffinmaker, because so far Hexaguns blow goats, as well as the RDM sword(fuck the stats, it just looks stupidly cool) by being able to use my free time instead of spending months just to farm for capital, to in turn spend months using that to finish the last 35~ levels of Smithing, to just have a shot at maybe affording a 5 year old weapon that is useless to me 90% of the time.

[Tobatobu]

We know of the Nyzul portion, but that's been around for a while. So as far as we know, they're adjusting an existing element of an older expansion....huh.

Oh, I'm sorry, apparently you know more. Enlighten me. Regale me. Entrance me. You obviously thought you had something to add, so go ahead. You bothered to post, why don't you give me your opinion?

When traded to Absolute Virtue, this will temporary disable his two hours, but also make you lose the item.

Upon defeat, he will give you a key item to recieve the next stage.

[Tsuko_Asura]

We know of the Nyzul portion, but that's been around for a while. So as far as we know, they're adjusting an existing element of an older expansion....huh.

Oh, I'm sorry, apparently you know more. Enlighten me. Regale me. Entrance me. You obviously thought you had something to add, so go ahead. You bothered to post, why don't you give me your opinion?

When traded to Absolute Virtue, this will temporary disable his two hours, but also make you lose the item.

Upon defeat, he will give you a key item to recieve the next stage.

[S N K]

Wow I come back from work and this shit is annouced... About damn time.

[vinelle]

i like the idea of multi tier assault from sorrowgalkasausage

This is what I've been envisioning since they were confirmed to be relics. Specific guesses:

1) A whole new set of nyzul floors from a second mission from the galka
2) Runic Key required for entry
3) Possibility of nyzul tokens used for the upgrade fee. I'm guessing 100-200k. As a point of reference, I, as the original disc holder of my group, have about 60k. The other members that have been around since the beginning (and have each raised a disc, but not farmed many runs) have around 180k.
4) If there's relic *weapons* involved........ GIVE ME MY GODDAMNED TOAU RELIC ARMOR.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I really wish Square would come out with an additional benefit of being a Nyzul discholder. Not only do we get screwed when it comes to weapons/hats, but if tokens were to be of value.. Yeah.

[Ashira]

Ok, since we've only had a few mentioned so far in the thread, and everyone loves the histories... figured I'd do a little compiling since I'm bored and the FF Compendium peeps can use the info for their pages without having to dig themselves!

Skipping all the slightly obvious names like Conqueror, Liberator, Nirvana, etc.

Glanzfaust - German for Shining Fist

Yagrush/Aymur - Weapons the Canaanite god, Baal, had made to battle Yam-Nahar for supreme reign over the gods. A blow to the chest with Yagrush (The Chaser) did not fell Yam, a blow to the head with the Aymur (The Driver) did.

Baal is similar to the Babylonian god, Marduk, who had a similar fight with Tiamat; Marduk was possibly derived from the Sumerian god Ninurta.

Laevateinn -
Lævateinn is a weapon mentioned in the Eddic poem Fjölsvinnsmál. The Poetic Edda is a collection of Old Norse poetry around the Norse myths.

Vindkald
26. Tell me, Fiölsvith! etc.
whether there be any weapon,
before which Vidofnir may
fall to Hel´s abode?

Fiölsvith
27. Hævatein the twig is named,and Lopt plucked it,
down by the gate of Death.
In an iron chest it lies
with Sinmoera,
and is with nine strong locks secured.

Vindkald
28. Tell me, Fiölsvith! etc.
whether he will alive return,
who seeks after,
and will take, that rod?

Laevateinn itself was a correction made by Norse linguist Sophus Bugge on reading the manuscripts.

Murgleis - The sword of Ganelon in The Song of Roland, a medieval French heroic poem. He is the stepfather to Roland and conspires to kill him, receving remuneration for his treachery.

Vajra is a Sanskrit word meaning both thunderbolt and diamond and is the most important of all Buddhist symbols. It is a short metal weapon that has the nature of a diamond (it can cut any substance but not be cut itself) and the nature of the thunderbolt (irresistible force). The vajra has come to represent firmness of spirit and sprirtual power. This is ritual tool or spiritual implement which is symbolically used by Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism.

In Hindu mythology, Vajra is the weapon of Indra, the Vedic god of rain and king of Devas. It is a powerful weapon having the combined features of sword, mace, and spear.

In Tantric Buddhism the vajra represents the male sexual organ, cosmic force, and compassion.

(Cue thf mandau/relic weapon related jokes here.

Included the Hindu bit here that I did not earlier, as someone else mentioned Indra/Vrtra, plus the description itself on the POL page mentions Indra; though I think they are probably going with both references here, what with the Vajra Quadav (translated essentially to Diamond) and the idea of this being forged from 'meteoric iron,' and the bit about it having the power source in the hilt, when its other translation in Sanskrit is 'thunderbolt.')

Burtgang - I found no reference to this other than other games, most especially Castlevania. Just a nod to that game then, perhaps? Some Castlevania site referenced it as a morph of "Blutgang," which was the hero Heimir's sword referenced in German legend "Dietrich von Bern."

From Swedish, "Bortgång" translates into "vanishing away from this realm," perhaps a reference to what this sword can do.

(Thanks to Khelek, Liquidedust, and Talint for more insights here. )

Carnwenhan - The dagger of King Arthur.

Gastraphetes - (from wikipedia) The gastraphetes (Ancient Greek ???????????, lit. 'belly-bow') was a handheld crossbow, used by ancient Greeks. It was described in the first century AD by the Greek author Heron of Alexandria in his work Belopoeica (Ancient Greek ??????????, 'on catapult-making'). It is believed to have been invented around 400 BC.(Landels, 1978, p. 99-100)

The weapon was powered by a composite bow. It was cocked by resting the stomach in a concavity at the rear of the stock and pressing down with all strength. In this way considerably more energy can be summoned up than by using only one arm of the archer as in the hand-bow.

There are no attestations through pictures or archaeological finds, but the description by Heron is detailed enough to have allowed modern reconstructions to be made.

A larger version of the gastraphetes were the oxybeles, which were used in siege warfare. These were later supplanted by the early ballistae that later also developed into smaller versions supplanting also the gastraphetes.


In modern culture
Gastraphetes appears in the Square Enix tactical RPG Final Fantasy Tactics. It is mistranslated as Gastrafitis and is the strongest crossbow in the game. It appears in Final Fantasy XII for PS2 once again as the strongest crossbow.


(Quick, someone go edit the wiki to include FFXI now. ;D)

Kogarasumaru - a Japanese sword. I found some info on the actual specific features of the weapon... which I am sure some enthusiasts understand far more than I do.

KOGARASUMARU

There were more than one KOGARASUMARU. It is a name given to a famous sword. A sword of a type. Perhaps it was thought of as the true Japanese sword, residing in a world of Chinese style KIRIHA-TSUKURI. It is thought that the KOGARASUMARU was the inspiration for the curved, single-edged HANCHO-TO which was apparently necessitated as a shock reducer for fighting from horseback.

There are two or three true KOGARASUMARU swords known to exist today. There are, of course, many reproductions and reverently made swords of varying quality.

KOGARASUMARU

////////FULL LENGTRH OSHIGATA//////////////

KOGARASUMARU - GYOBUTSU NAGASA: 2 SHAKU 6.5 BU
AMAKUNI TAI-HO 701 SORI: 4 BU
Imperial Treasure MOTO-HABA: 1.1 SUN
HO-RYOBA-TSUKURI (double-edged point) NAKAGO: 6.4 SUN

Its praises are sung in the MAN YOSHU or "Collection of 10,000 Leaves" - ca. 750. The fame and study of this piece helped transform the vision of the sword for its new ideal. It is still of the highest importance in the study of the Japanese Sword. TACHI of light curve and little FUNBARI - the NAKAGO has greatest arc. This is certainly one of the most distinctive swords in all history. NAGINATA-HI and strong SHINOGI-BOHI, the SAKI of which forms the support structure for the MONOUCHI. ITAME is running HADA with JI-NIE. YAKIBA pattern is a thin HOSO-SUGUHA that deepens as it reaches the upper. NIE combines with NIOI to pull an almost HOTSURE-effect on the line, which continues through KO-MARU BOSHI.

Nagi - The depicted weapon is a kama. The name Nagi's usage is yet to be determined, unless SE decided to get very very into wordplay with this one weapon, which is probably also only something I could think of with my loopy way of thought.

Nagi, however, and Nagini, are the feminine forms of Naga, Hindu and Buddhist deities which take the form of large snakes.

(Thanks to Nyuneko for clearing up the weaponry bits here.)

Ryunohige - Translated to Dragon's Beard.

Is also the name of a plant, referred to in English sometimes as "Japanese Snake's Beard."
http://www.kuromatsu-en.fr/page8/fil...1011-thumb.jpg

(Thanks, Xanthe, for confirming translate. )

Tizona - (from wikipedia - another entry that needs editing now to include FFXI in popular culture references ) Tizona is the sword carried by El Cid which was used to fight the Moors in Spain. It is now one of Spain's most cherished relics and can be found at the Museo del Ejército (Army Museum) in Madrid.

One of El Cid's swords (another is named Colada), Tizona was taken in battle from a Moorish chief named Malik Bucar. The sword was given to his daughter's husband as marriage gift, but some time later, due to his daughter's poor treatment at the hands of her husband, Tizona was taken back and given to his nephew Pedro Bermudez. The sword is 103 cm long and weighs 1.1 kg. Tizona was supposedly forged in Cordoba, though considerable amounts of Damascus steel can be found in its blade.

There are two inscriptions on the sword:

IO SOI TISONA FUE FECHA EN LA ERA DE MILE QUARENTA
In medieval Castilian (Spanish): "I am "La Tizona", made in the year 1040", but in Spanish medieval sources, "era" implies Hispanic Era, by which the History of Spain starts in 38 BC, so the date of the sword has to be 1002.

AVE MARIA ~ GRATIA PLENA ~ DOMINUS TECUM
In Latin: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with you" (from the Catholic prayer Ave Maria, "Hail Mary")

On the sword the "U" characters appear similar to the modern "X."

(Damascus steel, eh.... do I foresee ingot usage needed...)

Kenkonken - honestly, the only reference I find to these are Nataku's iron bracelets in Soul Hunter, which leads me to believe there is actual/mythological weaponry they're based on.

(Looking up proper descriptions for any of the Japanese weapons is pretty hellish.. you end up getting like 400 references to anime fan sites and horrible fanfiction.)

Terpsichore - In Greek mythology, the muse of dance and choral song.

Tupsimati - the tablets of law in Sumerian myth, which the god Enlil wore on him. One myth talks of them being stolen by the dragon Zu.

(So these not really a staff, but tablets, which works for SCH. )


And thus ends my project for the day.

[Xanthe]

I really wish Square would come out with an additional benefit of being a Nyzul discholder. Not only do we get screwed when it comes to weapons/hats, but if tokens were to be of value.. Yeah.

You only get screwed because you abuse the system.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I really wish Square would come out with an additional benefit of being a Nyzul discholder. Not only do we get screwed when it comes to weapons/hats, but if tokens were to be of value.. Yeah.

You only get screwed because you abuse the system.

Touche!