05/02/2008 The Myriad Arms of Balrahn

[Charismatic]

just to note the most highly regarded speculation-facts.

Runic keys
100 weapon
???
Profit

Captain Rank maybe? ;/ Just throwing it out there, I still need it lol.

way to miss the obvious south park reference

and as long as the nyzul WS is better than bewty ass final heaven, I'll jump on this shit

I could have sworn it was a Simpsons quote...

I thought it was when Homer went to the horse races, and all the jockeys went into some hole, and there were elves who stole people's socks and underwear from the drier to sell for profit... or something to that effect.

[Quizno]

dammit, it was Tweek...

[Eratosthenes]

Perhaps they're gonna make ToAU Dynamis. This would also mean COR, BLU, and PUP relic armor.

[orson]

Perhaps they're gonna make ToAU Dynamis. This would also mean COR, BLU, and PUP relic armor.

Keep dreaming

[Seigfried Of Pandy]

Perhaps they're gonna make ToAU Dynamis. This would also mean COR, BLU, and PUP relic armor.

dont you say that. dont you everrrrrrrrrrr say that.

[Sho]

Perhaps they're gonna make ToAU Dynamis. This would also mean COR, BLU, and PUP relic armor.

dont you say that. dont you everrrrrrrrrrr say that.

Diabolos is watching you... and waiting.

[Jkun]

way to miss the obvious south park reference

I see that reference/unfunnyrepeatedjoke so many times in a day I'm immune to it.

[Genosync]

Can't make the WSes extremely broken, that's the whole problem. If you give the WS, however, the strength of the job's best WS (not including relic WS), with a legitimate bonus effect after using the WS (aka, longer duration than effects from current relic WS, whose durations SHOULD be extended anyway), it'd be pretty useful.

For instance, just extra things that are based around the weapon/jobthatusesitmost:

GAX: Double Attack +10-20% for 2 minutes based on TP when using WS (100tp being 10% , 200tp 15%, 300tp 20%)
DAG (THF): Critical Rate +10-20% for 2 minutes
AXE: Attack +15-25% for 2 minutes (remember we're talking BST only here, it's not THAT broken)
SCY: Ignore Defense 30-40% for 2 minutes (not a defense down on the mob, but innate status on the DRK itself)
KTN: Magic Attack Bonus +35%, Magic Accuracy +30-40 for 3-5minutes (make Ninjutsu a speciality of those wishing to further their ninja, nothing else does it, this also increases the ability of the :San merits)
GKT: TP Bonus to WS for 3-5 minutes (+100TP to all WSes used in the next 3-5min period, slightly weaker than WS than Gekko/Kasha because of this, stacks with Hagun)
PLM: Restores Jump, Accuracy +10-20% for 3 minutes
H2H: Kick Attack Activation +20%, Kick Attacks +30 for 2-4 minutes (bring back dune boots bitches, this is unique shit)
CLB: Weapon Stats: Cure Potency +20% (the ultimate in curing, give this to dynamis relic too), MP+75 (give dynamis relic >>> REFRESH <<<), WS grants WHM Drain Samba III effect, lasts on WHM 1-3 minutes after WS (whoamg)
BLM Staff: Stats: Magic Attack +20%, Magic Accuracy +15%, WS does Aspir Samba 23789528 on BLM for 1-3 minutes and this samba does not require the mob to have MP, give dynamis relic MATK+25% and MACC+20%.
SMN Staff: Stats: Avatar Perpetuation -3 (give to claustrum), All Avatar Statistics +10% (Critical rate only 5%), WS gives avatar perpetuation -3 additional for 3-5 minutes, give claustrum Blood Pact timer reduction -7/8seconds.
RDM Sword: Stats: All Magic Skills +10, Magic Attack +15%, MACC+15%, WS gives Enspell Damage +10-20 (can't decide a non-broken number that's still really buff) for 3-5 minutes

Now, I don't want to make up more possibilities, because the idiots on the DEV team won't think in this manner at all. But a focus of these weaponskills shouldn't be to make some godawful, overpowered damage melee attack... it should be used to improve important aspects of every job and allow it to melee while not effecting its normal tasks.

All of these WSes do not require the job to use the same WS every time they get TP for these effects! Why can't they think like this, seriously...

[Croaker]

DAG (THF): Critical Rate +10-20% for 2 minutes

That would be a little bit too much. You can ws in around 30 seconds with mandau, so that bonus would essentially be infinite. However, I would like to see an incease in the +1% crit rate for .01 second that it currently has.

Easy ways to improve Mandau:
-Give it a real increase to crits as suggested.
-Make the poison effect noticable, remove it entirely or at least make it "special" so it doesn't cancel sleep.
-Make "Mercy Stroke" a guaranteed crit hit so it isn't useless with unstacked with SA or TA. (I've had Mercy Stroke hit for 20 damage before when the TA victim sidestepped)

DMG 39, Delay, and attack are all pretty good already, but with Perseus's Harpe at DMG 37, they probably want to bump it a slight bit. Squeezing in a DMG 38 on Vajra doesn't really make these daggers stand out.

[frodnonnag]

Can't make the WSes extremely broken, that's the whole problem. If you give the WS, however, the strength of the job's best WS (not including relic WS), with a legitimate bonus effect after using the WS (aka, longer duration than effects from current relic WS, whose durations SHOULD be extended anyway), it'd be pretty useful.

For instance, just extra things that are based around the weapon/jobthatusesitmost:

GAX: Double Attack +10-20% for 2 minutes based on TP when using WS (100tp being 10% , 200tp 15%, 300tp 20%)
DAG (THF): Critical Rate +10-20% for 2 minutes
AXE: Attack +15-25% for 2 minutes (remember we're talking BST only here, it's not THAT broken)
SCY: Ignore Defense 30-40% for 2 minutes (not a defense down on the mob, but innate status on the DRK itself)
KTN: Magic Attack Bonus +35%, Magic Accuracy +30-40 for 3-5minutes (make Ninjutsu a speciality of those wishing to further their ninja, nothing else does it, this also increases the ability of the :San merits)
GKT: TP Bonus to WS for 3-5 minutes (+100TP to all WSes used in the next 3-5min period, slightly weaker than WS than Gekko/Kasha because of this, stacks with Hagun)
PLM: Restores Jump, Accuracy +10-20% for 3 minutes
H2H: Kick Attack Activation +20%, Kick Attacks +30 for 2-4 minutes (bring back dune boots bitches, this is unique shit)
CLB: Weapon Stats: Cure Potency +20% (the ultimate in curing, give this to dynamis relic too), MP+75 (give dynamis relic >>> REFRESH <<<), WS grants WHM Drain Samba III effect, lasts on WHM 1-3 minutes after WS (whoamg)
BLM Staff: Stats: Magic Attack +20%, Magic Accuracy +15%, WS does Aspir Samba 23789528 on BLM for 1-3 minutes and this samba does not require the mob to have MP, give dynamis relic MATK+25% and MACC+20%.
SMN Staff: Stats: Avatar Perpetuation -3 (give to claustrum), All Avatar Statistics +10% (Critical rate only 5%), WS gives avatar perpetuation -3 additional for 3-5 minutes, give claustrum Blood Pact timer reduction -7/8seconds.
RDM Sword: Stats: All Magic Skills +10, Magic Attack +15%, MACC+15%, WS gives Enspell Damage +10-20 (can't decide a non-broken number that's still really buff) for 3-5 minutes

Now, I don't want to make up more possibilities, because the idiots on the DEV team won't think in this manner at all. But a focus of these weaponskills shouldn't be to make some godawful, overpowered damage melee attack... it should be used to improve important aspects of every job and allow it to melee while not effecting its normal tasks.

All of these WSes do not require the job to use the same WS every time they get TP for these effects! Why can't they think like this, seriously...

what is this, allakhazam? speculation is one thing, but downright obviously broken speculation isn't needed, most of that shit would break jobs in one way or another.

[Redshift]

Why don't you just add endeath with a high prog rate after WS.

[Khamsin]

Hey, he's been balancing it by tossing in some negatives here and there.

e.g.

SMN Staff: Stats: Avatar Perpetuation -3 (give to claustrum), All Avatar Statistics +10% (Critical rate only 5%), WS gives avatar perpetuation -3 additional for 3-5 minutes, give claustrum Blood Pact timer reduction -7/8seconds.

[Redshift]

he has a lolrelic in there to balance it out too

KTN: Magic Attack Bonus +35%, Magic Accuracy +30-40 for 3-5minutes

[Chreman]

Can't make the WSes extremely broken, that's the whole problem. If you give the WS, however, the strength of the job's best WS (not including relic WS), with a legitimate bonus effect after using the WS (aka, longer duration than effects from current relic WS, whose durations SHOULD be extended anyway), it'd be pretty useful.

For instance, just extra things that are based around the weapon/jobthatusesitmost:

GAX: Double Attack +10-20% for 2 minutes based on TP when using WS (100tp being 10% , 200tp 15%, 300tp 20%)
DAG (THF): Critical Rate +10-20% for 2 minutes
AXE: Attack +15-25% for 2 minutes (remember we're talking BST only here, it's not THAT broken)
SCY: Ignore Defense 30-40% for 2 minutes (not a defense down on the mob, but innate status on the DRK itself)
KTN: Magic Attack Bonus +35%, Magic Accuracy +30-40 for 3-5minutes (make Ninjutsu a speciality of those wishing to further their ninja, nothing else does it, this also increases the ability of the :San merits)
GKT: TP Bonus to WS for 3-5 minutes (+100TP to all WSes used in the next 3-5min period, slightly weaker than WS than Gekko/Kasha because of this, stacks with Hagun)
PLM: Restores Jump, Accuracy +10-20% for 3 minutes
H2H: Kick Attack Activation +20%, Kick Attacks +30 for 2-4 minutes (bring back dune boots bitches, this is unique shit)
CLB: Weapon Stats: Cure Potency +20% (the ultimate in curing, give this to dynamis relic too), MP+75 (give dynamis relic >>> REFRESH <<<), WS grants WHM Drain Samba III effect, lasts on WHM 1-3 minutes after WS (whoamg)
BLM Staff: Stats: Magic Attack +20%, Magic Accuracy +15%, WS does Aspir Samba 23789528 on BLM for 1-3 minutes and this samba does not require the mob to have MP, give dynamis relic MATK+25% and MACC+20%.
SMN Staff: Stats: Avatar Perpetuation -3 (give to claustrum), All Avatar Statistics +10% (Critical rate only 5%), WS gives avatar perpetuation -3 additional for 3-5 minutes, give claustrum Blood Pact timer reduction -7/8seconds.
RDM Sword: Stats: All Magic Skills +10, Magic Attack +15%, MACC+15%, WS gives Enspell Damage +10-20 (can't decide a non-broken number that's still really buff) for 3-5 minutes

Now, I don't want to make up more possibilities, because the idiots on the DEV team won't think in this manner at all. But a focus of these weaponskills shouldn't be to make some godawful, overpowered damage melee attack... it should be used to improve important aspects of every job and allow it to melee while not effecting its normal tasks.

All of these WSes do not require the job to use the same WS every time they get TP for these effects! Why can't they think like this, seriously...

This doesn't seem that bad at all. . . obviously the major flaw with mage's weapons are how they were created with only meleeing in mind. Overhauling Claustrom, Mjollnir and wtfExcalibur into items that are actually useful for BLM/RDM/WHM (and perhaps BLU/SCH) is likely out of the picture as there's no way to pull it off that would keep all players relatively content. Take, for instance, the innevitable ritualistic suicide of izzy if his beatstick turned into a "Increases curebot potency" overnight.

If they make the new relics direct downgrades from the existing ones with 1/2 completion time they can cater to casual players as well as casual players who think they're hardcore. I'd be happy to see items that aren't just an upgrade to damage and delay with a new WS as there's no 'wow' factor in repeating the same reward with different requirements.

Geno's suggestions are right on track in my opinion. I can't see any downside to tossing out relics that aren't straight upgrades, but rather sidegrades that echo the shittiness/power of the original relics by granting a different bonus. Which leads to people with both having to make tactical decisions and players with none being forced to make a tough decision on which to shoot for first. Provides players with subjective options as to how to advance their character. . . something this game very much lacks.

[Nekonaruto]

GKT: TP Bonus to WS for 3-5 minutes (+100TP to all WSes used in the next 3-5min period, slightly weaker than WS than Gekko/Kasha because of this, stacks with Hagun)

Switch GK after WS?

[Chupunpupun]

Can't make the WSes extremely broken, that's the whole problem. If you give the WS, however, the strength of the job's best WS (not including relic WS), with a legitimate bonus effect after using the WS (aka, longer duration than effects from current relic WS, whose durations SHOULD be extended anyway), it'd be pretty useful.

For instance, just extra things that are based around the weapon/jobthatusesitmost:

GAX: Double Attack +10-20% for 2 minutes based on TP when using WS (100tp being 10% , 200tp 15%, 300tp 20%)
DAG (THF): Critical Rate +10-20% for 2 minutes
AXE: Attack +15-25% for 2 minutes (remember we're talking BST only here, it's not THAT broken)
SCY: Ignore Defense 30-40% for 2 minutes (not a defense down on the mob, but innate status on the DRK itself)
KTN: Magic Attack Bonus +35%, Magic Accuracy +30-40 for 3-5minutes (make Ninjutsu a speciality of those wishing to further their ninja, nothing else does it, this also increases the ability of the :San merits)
GKT: TP Bonus to WS for 3-5 minutes (+100TP to all WSes used in the next 3-5min period, slightly weaker than WS than Gekko/Kasha because of this, stacks with Hagun)
PLM: Restores Jump, Accuracy +10-20% for 3 minutes
H2H: Kick Attack Activation +20%, Kick Attacks +30 for 2-4 minutes (bring back dune boots bitches, this is unique shit)
CLB: Weapon Stats: Cure Potency +20% (the ultimate in curing, give this to dynamis relic too), MP+75 (give dynamis relic >>> REFRESH <<<), WS grants WHM Drain Samba III effect, lasts on WHM 1-3 minutes after WS (whoamg)
BLM Staff: Stats: Magic Attack +20%, Magic Accuracy +15%, WS does Aspir Samba 23789528 on BLM for 1-3 minutes and this samba does not require the mob to have MP, give dynamis relic MATK+25% and MACC+20%.
SMN Staff: Stats: Avatar Perpetuation -3 (give to claustrum), All Avatar Statistics +10% (Critical rate only 5%), WS gives avatar perpetuation -3 additional for 3-5 minutes, give claustrum Blood Pact timer reduction -7/8seconds.
RDM Sword: Stats: All Magic Skills +10, Magic Attack +15%, MACC+15%, WS gives Enspell Damage +10-20 (can't decide a non-broken number that's still really buff) for 3-5 minutes

Now, I don't want to make up more possibilities, because the idiots on the DEV team won't think in this manner at all. But a focus of these weaponskills shouldn't be to make some godawful, overpowered damage melee attack... it should be used to improve important aspects of every job and allow it to melee while not effecting its normal tasks.

All of these WSes do not require the job to use the same WS every time they get TP for these effects! Why can't they think like this, seriously...

This doesn't seem that bad at all. . . obviously the major flaw with mage's weapons are how they were created with only meleeing in mind. Overhauling Claustrom, Mjollnir and wtfExcalibur into items that are actually useful for BLM/RDM/WHM (and perhaps BLU/SCH) is likely out of the picture as there's no way to pull it off that would keep all players relatively content. Take, for instance, the innevitable ritualistic suicide of izzy if his beatstick turned into a "Increases curebot potency" overnight.

If they make the new relics direct downgrades from the existing ones with 1/2 completion time they can cater to casual players as well as casual players who think they're hardcore. I'd be happy to see items that aren't just an upgrade to damage and delay with a new WS as there's no 'wow' factor in repeating the same reward with different requirements.

Geno's suggestions are right on track in my opinion. I can't see any downside to tossing out relics that aren't straight upgrades, but rather sidegrades that echo the shittiness/power of the original relics by granting a different bonus. Which leads to people with both having to make tactical decisions and players with none being forced to make a tough decision on which to shoot for first. Provides players with subjective options as to how to advance their character. . . something this game very much lacks.

Any decent melee can get 100%TP in ~30sec. With relic those WS buffs that last 2min, it means you can keep them up forever and able to do 2-3 other WS while under the effect.

[Seigfried Of Pandy]

getting into a serious debate about those fake relic adjustments is really pointless cause its never gonna happen

[orson]

getting into a serious debate about those fake relic adjustments is really pointless cause its never gonna happen

qft

[Yutuyu]

getting into a serious debate about those fake relic adjustments is really pointless cause its never gonna happen

qft

Actually, SE has stated that relic adjustments will be happening. But probably not until the patch after they release these. Saying it'll "never happen" is silly.

And it's not pointless to debate what you think the relic adjustments should be as long as you're enjoying doing it.

[orson]

getting into a serious debate about those fake relic adjustments is really pointless cause its never gonna happen

qft

Actually, SE has stated that relic adjustments will be happening. But probably not until the patch after they release these. Saying it'll "never happen" is silly.

And it's not pointless to debate what you think the relic adjustments should be as long as you're enjoying doing it.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the specific buffs that were mentioned. Debate is one thing but arguing over hypothetical adjustments that are fairly broken as to whether they are or are not too powerful is a waste time.

Edit: Also in all fairness we have the Random Item Creation Fun thread sitting in Newbie if people really want to design their relics.