Human Organ = Profit.

[Maxxthepenguin]

As I stated before, yes, there needs to be something done to increase the availability of transplant organs. This is not the correct way to go about it, though.

How do you propose increasing the availability of organs for donation without compensating people?

imo kill the rich people

[Khamsin]

Really, you really doubt this? I really have my doubts that people won't find ways around the system. Oh, and you've gotta be kidding yourself if you think the rate of illegally sold organs won't increase with something such as this.

Normally, I would agree that people can find ways around anything. But we're talking organs, here. The hospital is going to want to remove the organ themselves. You can't just bring in a cooler and get paid. You can't just have a guy on the inside take the organ, pretend he removed it, and take a cut for himself. There's too many people involved in a surgery like that, and there's bound to be records they're supposed to keep of actually using an operating room or the equipment. I just don't see how anyone is going to sell black market organs like this, or poor people organs. If a poor person was going to commit identity theft and fraud for the sake of selling his kidney for $47k, he could probably make more money with that same crime by exploiting someone other than himself.

Again you're saying this as if that's not the way it's going to be manipulated. As for this idea of compensation, $47,000 is not compensation for something like an organ. If you think it is then you do not make enough money. I'm not trying to insult or talk down to anyone but $47,000 actually buys you very little. Heck, it cost the surgeon much more for a year in college learning how to take out that kidney than what you're getting paid for it. Please do not read that as "the pay is too low for the organ" because that is not what I'm saying. The idea of a one time payment is complete ludacris, and that is why is should not be allowed.

I'm not saying $47k is a lot or that it's full compensation, but rather that it's a token stipend to ease the burden and inconvenience of an organ donation. If you donate to a fundraiser and receive a T-shirt or CD, was it worth what you donated? No. But at least it's a little something to encourage you to donate. The $47k is just the T-shirt or CD you get when you donate a kidney.

[Pirian]

Normally, I would agree that people can find ways around anything. But we're talking organs, here. The hospital is going to want to remove the organ themselves. You can't just bring in a cooler and get paid. You can't just have a guy on the inside take the organ, pretend he removed it, and take a cut for himself. There's too many people involved in a surgery like that, and there's bound to be records they're supposed to keep of actually using an operating room or the equipment. I just don't see how anyone is going to sell black market organs like this, or poor people organs. If a poor person was going to commit identity theft and fraud for the sake of selling his kidney for $47k, he could probably make more money with that same crime by exploiting someone other than himself.

I'm sorry, it's my fault for not making it clear enough when I wrote that people would find a way around it. People can forge documents necessary to have it done. It seems you would be surprised how little the American hospitals care about you. I'm not saying the people working in them don't care about you, but the hospitals just want to get paid and unless they have a serious reason to doubt you, as long as the check clears they'll cut. No, the people putting forth the kidney are not paying but the person receiving certainly is.

Keep track of the operating room equipment? Do you know how many things get left in patients after they are sewed up? Yeah they take inventory, but as with any inventory a certain amount is expected to go missing and it's only after an excessive number pops up that they actually even take a second look.

I'm not saying $47k is a lot or that it's full compensation, but rather that it's a token stipend to ease the burden and inconvenience of an organ donation. If you donate to a fundraiser and receive a T-shirt or CD, was it worth what you donated? No. But at least it's a little something to encourage you to donate. The $47k is just the T-shirt or CD you get when you donate a kidney.

And I am saying that the whole idea is too prone to abuse.

[Khamsin]

Keep track of the operating room equipment? Do you know how many things get left in patients after they are sewed up? Yeah they take inventory, but as with any inventory a certain amount is expected to go missing and it's only after an excessive number pops up that they actually even take a second look.

I didn't mean little things, I mean having a record that they actually used that anasthesia thing, or whatever else they use in the process.

[Pirian]

I didn't mean little things, I mean having a record that they actually used that anasthesia thing, or whatever else they use in the process.

Since it's not happened here yet, and it's not fair to bring up an example from a country such as Pakistan (even though they are a great example of how their poor are being exploited) because they have a more corrupt government, I can not really fight my side of the conversation any further in terms of how it would be abused.

I can add that there are wealthy people(certainly not limited to Americans) who can afford to, and do, go abroad for organ transplants, and there really isn't much stopping them. For Americans, this just means they wouldn't have to go as far in order to get the operation done.

[Patb]

Well I finally get to have some real input on a subject on here!

I was diagnosed with kidney failure almost 2 years ago. Both of my kidneys are completely dead, so I do dialysis at home 5 days a week ( for 5 hours a day I might add). For the things I say, I only know about kidneys, also being in pre-med to become a nephrologist (kidney doctor) helps a bit. you only need ONE kidney. When you lose one, the other takes over completely and you are just as healthy, there is no difference in your life at all. When you get a transplant you only get one, and they have people who have transplanted kidneys for 40+ years now. So losing one isn't that big of a deal.

On the subject of money. 47K if it was American dollars, is an absolutely amazing deal. I know of many people who have gone to other countries to buy kidneys, and the highest I have ever heard of anyone paying, is 15k American. So If I had healthy kidneys I would gladly sell one for 47K. I don't know how the insurance and all that is going to work for this situation. But I do know, that if one of my friends was to donate a kidney to me, My insurance would cover everything, including their pay for the week of work they would miss. My insurance also covers all expenses for most of their medical needs for the next few years.

As for rich people getting higher on the transplant list quicker. It is exactly true. With most hospitals, if you give a donation of over 1million $ they will almost always instantly bump you up to the top. My doctor suggested that when I was first placed on the list. The list is very weird, it doesn't matter how healthy you are or anything like that, the only thing that matters for moving you up the list, is money. I will probably have to wait a total of 5 years until I get my transplant even though I am an extremely healthy and active 20 year old. Where a dying 90 year old who wants a transplant, has the exact same chance of getting one.

Sorry if there were some rants in there, Its a little frustrating being a part of this system ><

[Khamsin]

Well I finally get to have some real input on a subject on here!

I was diagnosed with kidney failure almost 2 years ago. Both of my kidneys are completely dead, so I do dialysis at home 5 days a week ( for 5 hours a day I might add). For the things I say, I only know about kidneys, also being in pre-med to become a nephrologist (kidney doctor) helps a bit.

Cruel fate that you happened to be studying to become a kidney doctor and both your kidneys fail on you. Hope you get a new one soon.

[archibaldcrane]

My uncle just got a new kidney, his have been failing for no particular reason (he's not unhealthy, just 55ish years old). His wife's sister managed to be a match for him, amazingly, after going through most of his blood siblings without finding a proper match. I haven't seen him since (this was just a week ago) but apparently both are doing well.

I wish you luck Patb.

[spruce-goose]

A problem with letting organs be sold is you'll run into people who would revoke their donor status to then sell the organs. It would lessen the overall amount of organs (for free) being donated if people knew they could make a buck on it. While that may not be a bad thing it will raise the costs of things a lot.

[Keno]

47k? shit.



if i give up a major fucking organ voluntarily, it better buy me a house and land - because odds are i'm not going to be around to enjoy it as long as mikey next door.

You can live perfectly fine with only one kidney...

[Maxxthepenguin]

47k? shit.



if i give up a major fucking organ voluntarily, it better buy me a house and land - because odds are i'm not going to be around to enjoy it as long as mikey next door.

You can live perfectly fine with only one kidney...

There's a reason we evolved two kidneys and not other organs. They are, from my understanding, prone to failure.

So, it's all well and good that you can live w/o one of them but the fastest kidney transplant is the one that doesn't have to happen.

[Lordwafik]

There's a reason we evolved two kidneys and not other organs. They are, from my understanding, prone to failure.

What a stupid argument first of all, and second of all, how's your one lung going?

[Maxxthepenguin]

There's a reason we evolved two kidneys and not other organs. They are, from my understanding, prone to failure.

What a stupid argument first of all, and second of all, how's your one lung going?

We use two lungs. I was talking specifically about the kidneys. You can survive perfectly fine, but there's a reason you have a backup plan inherent in the design.

[Kuya]

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

[Maxxthepenguin]

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

My point remains. Unless I'm wrong. If I'm wrong I withdraw it.

[Correction]

It's true that you can function with just one kidney. But if live donation were some trivial procedure it'd happen all the time. It's still major surgery and if you plan on living more than 30 years past the donation date welcome to the world of 'data does not exist' on your ultimate fate. I wish everyone who wanted a kidney could get one but the reality is that folks don't like voluntary major surgery to give it up. Can't fault them for not going under the knife just because they can.

[Pirian]

I know it was just an attempt to be cute, but you can actually live with 1 lung. Removing a lung is always a last resort, most often because of malignant cancer. Unlike only having 1 kidney, you're really limited to what you can do with only 1 lung because of obvious reasons.

[guartz]

So quit drinking and junk food for 47k?


Mmm no thanks.

[Patb]

actually, live transplants do happen, ALL the time. About 40% of kidney transplants are live transplants. The only reason they don't happen much more often, is because they have very strict rules. For example, my parents are both perfect matches for me, but they have both done certain drugs once in their life, and if you have been a user of ANY(might have to check that for sure, but I know most count) illegal drugs, they will not let you donate. There are also a lot more rigorous prerequisites, such as being a non-smoker.

And actually, kidneys are not prone to failing, it is just as rare as any other organ failing. When one is gone, the other takes over complete responsibility.

Also, you don't have to give up junk food. You just *SHOULD* limit your sodium (salt) intake. Which is a great idea for most people because when sodium is limited, a lot of people, including me, drop a lot of fat, and become much healthier. So unless you can't live without an entire bag of chips a day, you will be perfectly fine.

[Keno]

So quit drinking and junk food for 47k?


Mmm no thanks.

You need your liver for that, not your kidney. And you only have one liver, so it's not like you can give it away anyways.