[Poll] What do you think about dynamis ?

[Lordwafik]

Doesn't it kind of blow a gaping hole in your "your subsidies are going towards the outstanding event planning and personnel managing that we provide here at Manaburn" when they are actually going into an arbitrarily chosen private pocket? One that has nothing to do with leading or organizing in any way? Wouldn't they get the very same outstanding leadership if the proceeds from that non-leader-non-organizer-sponsored run was distributed to, I dunno, the entire LS membership?

Not really. I was done with my relic, the other officer who wanted to go through with it was done with his relic, what we were supposed to do with the currency? Let it fall to people who refused to chip in / came late / afk'd all over the place? LOL.

You're right, why the hell would you want to let the non-officers have any currency? I mean, the officers clearly already have their relics. The other guys are mostly just brainless leeches.

Did you not read the thing where I said I let someone who's not an officer upgrade a relic? Officers in dynamis linkshells aren't exactly high authority figures so big lol @ that.

Here I'll do you a favour and re-quote that part :

After that happened, I chose Filipo, someone very loyal to the LS, who wasn't an officer, came to 99% of the runs, and promised to do a relic with the money, to do as we did.

Omg not officer!

The fact that you refer to the rest of your LS simply as "people who refused to chip in / came late / afk'd all over the place" pretty much says it all.

Stop putting words in my mouth you useless harlot. I used them as an example of people I don't want currency going to, I never said those people are the rest of the LS and there were no good people, if that was the case, the LS wouldn't have survived more than a few months at best.

[aurik]

The fact that you refer to the rest of your LS simply as "people who refused to chip in / came late / afk'd all over the place" pretty much says it all.

Stop putting words in my mouth you useless harlot. I used them as an example of people I don't want currency going to, I never said those people are the rest of the LS and there were no good people, if that was the case, the LS wouldn't have survived more than a few months at best, nor would it have spawned copycat shells on many other servers, nor would have someone set up a "sequel" shell to Manaburn when the original one discontinued

Fixed that for ya. The sheer number and success of "sponsorship"-style shells is a pretty solid reflection on just how much of the populace shares his values.

[#686578]

[quote=Spider-Dan]

Stop right there, you need to stop dealing with your "80k" profits, whoever the hell came up with the 2.5Mil in currency with a 1.5M profit hasn't been playing in our fucking economy.

I wanted to get home first, so I could get the drop stats from my last Dynamis run:

O.Bronzepiece x308
M.Silverpiece x7

At market rate of 8k per, that's a haul of 8m+. With ZERO Silverpieces, that's STILL a haul of 2.464m. How can a sponsor survive on such little profit?

Just because it's not like it was in the robber baron days of 2006 (where a paltry 1m investment nets you 8 digits easy), don't try to act like sponsors are headed to the poor house. If it wasn't profitable, they'd stop doing it.
[/quote:1f6v0bq8]
I have no idea what numbers you're going into dynamis with, but damn, 308 bronze's alone? I've never seen that many in a dynamis. Lately I've been lucky to see enough to break even (without 100's which we thankfully get every so often) with around 30ish people, iirc.
Hoping the sponsor surviving bit is sarcasm.
I don't deny that a sponsor does it because it's worth it's time, but however that's not to say that they're doing it because it's such a great investment (However in your case, damn).
I don't think I was arguing anything here other than that your numbers seem quite off to me.

If you're even going to bother comparing Dynamis to Sky, do it fucking correctly. You say that it would be the Sky Leader to privately keep everything? No, that's not the fucking same. What would be the same as sponsoring dynamis is if one of your linkshell members happened to propose to the linkshell, "Hey guys, I have a great idea, I have all the pops for [insert god here] that I soloed by myself, and am willing to allow the linkshell to help me with the god in exchange for me having all the sellable items, you, as a linkshell, will be able to lot on the rare/ex items you want."

No, actually, if you want to take it to its logical conclusion, it would be like if you had a sky LS that ALWAYS gave the money drops to the person that purchased the pop item, and NEVER farmed the triggers as a LS. Oh, and if you aren't on a special pre-approved list, you can't use your pops.

First off, you can actually farm pop items. I know, I know, it's a rare thing what with all the rampant sky RMTing, but there are people that still do it... like the majority of people, you can even solo a fair few of them. As for the pre-approved list, you've mentioned before only certain people are allowed to sponsor? I'd try to look over your posts a second time but I cant search; but I also cannot recall you ever saying that, however that is indeed favoritism. Every linkshell I've been in has allowed sponsoring if you wanted (under the condition that you're actually upgrading a relic or to make sure a specific zone is done; not just using the linkshell as a gil farming tool. To date, I've yet to see a single person sponsor a dynamis other than to make sure that they got a specific COP dynamis done). I seem to have gotten off topic, a bit. What the hell is wrong with people that farm their own pop items, getting what they deserve? It's not like you put any time into it, you should count yourself so lucky that they even give you the opportunity to even lot on the rare/ex stuff. I see no problem with a person who ALWAYS gives the money drops to the person that farmed (or even purchased, what the hell, it's his gil and pop items), and NEVER farmed the triggers as an LS. So what, they're his pop items, he deserves his rewards.

How do you feel about LS's that do KS99's your orb your lot? A linkshell ALWAYS gives the money drops (technically all the drops, but I'm trying to keep syntax here) to whoever farmed the KSs, and NEVER farmed the KSs as an LS. There's a problem here? I dont see a problem here at all; and this is more inline with what you're trying to explain anyways seeing as a single person is obviously benefiting using the LS as a farming tool.

He's trying to point out that by having the linkshell handle everything you get rid of all this "unfairness" going around. Linkshell has a fund for dynamis, the linkshell lots the items, sells them as the linkshell and keeps the profit as the linkshell to fund further dynamises (though usually this is a pooled fund for all of the linkshells endeavors and can and usually does include profits from the sellable items from sky, where members are allowed to lot rare/ex and other high valued items and other sellable items are sold so that people cant argue about favoritism).

The above is an example of a system that's actually fair to everyone (as opposed to currency sponsorship), so I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a rebuttal, or what.

You took an important part out of the quote, the part where Layoneil points out

also you're beginning to get into how/why LS Funds are established and how they are used.

and you replied:

No, not really. I'm not talking about the money drops going into the LS fund; I'm talking about them going into the leader's pocket. Surely we can agree that these are not one and the same?

What I'm doing in my reply pertaining to those two quotes is explaining how/why LS Funds are established and how they're used, seeing as you're obviously overlooking it and moving onto another subject (Or rather the original subject and ignoring a good point).




The fact that you're misrepresenting other people's quotes or just generally misunderstanding anything in particular says a lot about your logistical skills and reasoning.

[Izzy]

What the hell is up with the recent threads that have one gaping dickhole arguing with the rest of the world lately?

[Cadsuane]

Fixed that for ya. The sheer number and success of "sponsorship"-style shells is a pretty solid reflection on just how much of the populace shares his values.

Well, I might be more inclined to join in frowning on sponsorship deals if they were normally netting 8 times the 1M entry fee every run like SD is saying.

But yeah, they really normally don't.

[Byrthnoth]

If I could sponsor a city Dynamis with my shell and they didn't care what I did with the currency, I wouldn't think twice. It's a lot of profit. Break-even point on Garuda is 154 Byne, 133 Whiteshell, and 125 Bronze. If you're pulling in 150 or less currency per city run, then I don't think I'm out of line suggesting your LS sucks balls.

The only justification I see for permitting Dynamis sponsoring in a Dynamis-Onry LS is if the person asking to sponsor is an absolutely essential part of your LS, like the puller, who has no other reason to stay with your LS. Then your LS is essentially trading that person the opportunity for profit for services rendered. If you're a non-essential player still looking to get AF2 sponsoring Dynamis runs, be thankful your LS is either benevolent or stupid.

If I was running a Dynamis-Onry LS, I'd lend 3mil to the LS bank to start it up, then I'd lot all the currency that dropped for LS and sell it in Rolanmart at market value in order to perpetuate runs. Beginning would be city-spamming anyway, which would recoup my loan and build up the bank a bit. After that point, we'd do enough city zones to keep the LS bank over 5mil and do as much CoP/Outlands as the bank would allow. If there was a persistent positive gain in the LS bank, we'd do attendance based payouts when it hit 15mil to bring it back down to 5mil. Dynamis would never cost anyone anything and all members would evenly benefit from the LS-generated profit with outlands equipment and potentially gil.
The other way to do it as fairly as this is to have everyone pay to get in and just let all currency fall out, but people are bitches about probability and seem to think that everyone lotting for something is somehow different from just letting it free fall. (THE COMPUTER LOTS FOR YOU, YOU DIPSHITS!) The latter way is clearly easier, but more hassle for the average member as they have to sell stuff and pay for Dynamis. However, the first system proposed is open to abuse, as people there would come selectively to Outlands/CoP and skip out on farming runs, which would necessitate more farming runs to the point where the system might be entirely inefficient. The second system causes whiners and doesn't give an economic barometer for how often to do Outlands/Cities/CoP, which means you might accidentally cause some of your poorer members to go broke.

Could throw in a simple rule like, "You cannot lot AF2/AF-1/Accessories if you did not attend the last run" to solve the first system's problem. Whether you make your AF2 system attendance/seniority based is somewhat of a judgement call. I'd be inclined to just make all the outlands decisions myself and let anyone who can wear random in the cities. That said, I'm not a freaking saint so I wouldn't be up for the huge headache that trying to run a Dynamis LS generates.