Down to the wire in Indiana: Next move for Clinton?

[Demosthenes11]

I can assure you nobody here is a neocon (loloadedword)

The reason Wright is a big deal, is because Obama is saying he "never knew of Wright's beliefs"
....how can anyone buy that considering he went to church there for how many years? Wright is a LUNATIC that believes the reason blacks like / are so good at jazz is because of biological differences between blacks and whites. He continues to divide the two races more and more with science that doesn't exist. The fact Barack didn't stop going to this church after how many years really makes me wonder just what he does believe.

What Hilary doing is laughable at best - pathetic at worst. Honestly, it doesn't really matter to me though. The differences between presidents McCain, Obama, and Clinton are so minuscule it's not even worth my time to vote. McCain is a liberal, Obama is a socialist, and Hilary is a nutjob. I don't like either of those 3 things

[Charla]

McCain is a liberal

uh huh

[Dustybrown]

She's always been smug and had a sense of entitlement, and the older folks, and women just think that she's the best thing ever. She's just like one of us! Please, she's the furthest thing from it.

Errrrr, no. Not all women think that she's the "best thing ever". That's a huge over-generalization and inaccurate to boot - for example 57% of NC voters were female and Obama won there by 56% - 42%. Exit polls say 55% of the people that voted for him in NC were female, only 43% voted for Clinton.

Personally, Hillary is an embarrassment to women if you ask me... one of our strong points is being able to lie well. She couldn't lie well if her life depended on it.

[Correction]

Wright is a LUNATIC that believes the reason blacks like / are so good at jazz is because of biological differences between blacks and whites. He continues to divide the two races more and more with science that doesn't exist. The fact Barack didn't stop going to this church after how many years really makes me wonder just what he does believe.

Obama has since repudiated the 'Wright Craziness' and politically divorced himself from such extreme viewpoints. What's left to wonder again? If he's lying? At this point you either trust him or you don't based on some torch you wish to carry for Your Favorite Issue. You could wonder at his honesty about anything he's said, and it's clear the Wright issue hasn't given Hillary enough of a boost to be anything than 2nd place for the rest of the race. This if nothing else is reason enough for her to stop dragging it out and splitting the Democratic party.

[Demosthenes11]

If he reputed the craziness, why is he just now realizing it and now distancing himself from it? If you always thought someone was a psychopath, why would you continue going to listen to him and not distance yourself from him until everyone else discovered what a nutjob he is?

It doesn't add up

[Nystul]

The Wright thing had an effect, the problem is that all it did was stop Obama from pulling away and had him basically hold even with Clinton. It's basically run it's course. conservative news people will keep bringing it up but for the most part people that will vote for him aren't going to change their minds any time soon.

If he reputed the craziness, why is he just now realizing it and now distancing himself from it? If you always thought someone was a psychopath, why would you continue going to listen to him and not distance yourself from him until everyone else discovered what a nutjob he is?

I think my Aunt is a crazy bitch, but I'm not going to stand up at my sister's wedding in 2 weeks and announce that publicly...in fact she's already on the guest list for my wedding...because she's family. Think about it- you don't agree politically with all your friends. I have some friends that are alcoholic socialists...sort of like beckwin on a bender with latent irish catholic anger issues...but we still hung out. How many catholics disagree with the handling of abortion, birth control, women in the clergy, birth control and aids prevention in Africa- shit this one alone is far worse than ANYTHING Wright has said because the stance of the church is ACTIVELY CAUSING DEATH- but they still show up and go to church and don't leave. So what if one guy pops off and says something stupid? What if Obama had friendships and connections to that church?

[quannum]

Is it time to start thinking veep choices?

Obama's got 3 general options: swing state male with war/econ cred .. ted strickland ohio gov maybe
a top hillary supporter like ed rendell or wesley clark
a republican with crossover appeal ..all that comes to mind is bloomberg, help his jewish demographics i guess.

Mccain needs help w/ getting conservatives to turnout, huckabee could work for that. press loves his personality.
romney gives him econ cred but brings lolmormon baggage
florida gov, crist would give him florida but mccain might not need the help there against obama

[Beckwin]

on top of that, the only ridiculous thing Wright said is the bit about the US government giving black people AIDS. When he talks about black/european music, learning styles, etc he's talking about cultural traditions and generalizations.

He's a character for sure, but he's also a pretty intelligent man with a pretty respectable history.





PS- a defining trait of neocons is that they never want to call themselves neocons, or anything but "moderates." They can be huge supporters of the Iraq war, pro-life, ID, building a fence along the mexico border, huge military spending, school vouchers, upper class tax cuts, PATRIOT Act, marriage ammendment, but will insist that they're just a good ol' moderate Republican who wants a small government and little social intrusion.

[Beckwin]

Edwards would play up the populist vote that Hillary has had success going after, and Richardson could tap the Hispanic vote that Hillary has also enjoyed, including crossover appeal (especially in the Southwest, where NM and CO could be important).

[Demosthenes11]

lol @ pro-life and a fucking fence having anything to do with neocon

and Nystul you bring up great points =)
I just personally would act differently

[Beckwin]

what, are you saying neocons and paleocons can't have anything in common? get over it.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

It's a little more than what Wright said. Obama flat out lied about it. In the Fox interview he said he wasn't in the pews when Wright said those things. In his "race speech" just a few days later Obama said he was in the pews. He also didn't separate himself from Wright until it became obvious that the sound bites weren't misleading at all.

PS- a defining trait of neocons is that they never want to call themselves neocons, or anything but "moderates." They can be huge supporters of the Iraq war, pro-life, ID, building a fence along the mexico border, huge military spending, school vouchers, upper class tax cuts, PATRIOT Act, marriage ammendment, but will insist that they're just a good ol' moderate Republican who wants a small government and little social intrusion.

Should I bother?

what, are you saying neocons and paleocons can't have anything in common? get over it.

That gave me a good chuckle. Good one.

[isladar]

Edwards would play up the populist vote that Hillary has had success going after, and Richardson could tap the Hispanic vote that Hillary has also enjoyed, including crossover appeal (especially in the Southwest, where NM and CO could be important).

As much as I might like Edwards, he is not VP material. He's bland.

[TacoTaru]

Think about it- you don't agree politically with all your friends.

This is the one reason I never understood the Reverend Wright issue. I have friends who I disagree with 100% on everything moral/religious/politically, but we're still friends (they've even said stupider things that what Wright said).

[Enkidu]

This is the one reason I never understood the Reverend Wright issue. I have friends who I disagree with 100% on everything moral/religious/politically, but we're still friends (they've even said stupider things that what Wright said).

It's a little different when it's not your friend, but a minister... If you had a Biology professor who denied evolution, how long would you stay in the class? The answer is pretty obvious, if you agree with the professor you'll stay, if you're sane you'll get out. Obama made a bad choice in staying with the church so long, and he'll definitely pay for it.

[quannum]

to those saying "omgwright":
do you also say omghagee or omgparsley?

[Neosutra]

This is the one reason I never understood the Reverend Wright issue. I have friends who I disagree with 100% on everything moral/religious/politically, but we're still friends (they've even said stupider things that what Wright said).

It's a little different when it's not your friend, but a minister... If you had a Biology professor who denied evolution, how long would you stay in the class? The answer is pretty obvious, if you agree with the professor you'll stay, if you're sane you'll get out. Obama made a bad choice in staying with the church so long, and he'll definitely pay for it.

He will do more than pay for it, he will lose the Presidencial election for it. And everyone here knows that Hilary is staying in till the end for the sheer purpose of waiting on another blunder from Obama as bad as Wright. Maybe she will get lucky, maybe she wont. She has bet 10mil of her personal dollars that she will. I personally beleive she has a better shot of beating McCain than Obama after recent events, but time will tell.

[TacoTaru]

My point was just because you share some values with someone does not mean you share all. Minister, professor, friend, what have you. Just because he shared the same religious values does not mean they share the same personal values, thoughts and ideas. He could have like him as a person and as his minster but thought he was a fucking idiot when it came to government conspiracies.

If you had a Biology professor who denied evolution, how long would you stay in the class? The answer is pretty obvious, if you agree with the professor you'll stay, if you're sane you'll get out.

Classes with professors (at least ones you can engage with) who disagree with your position and you can have an actual debate and discussion with have served me a 100xs better than any professor who thinks one idea is golden and there's no other viewpoint.

[Neosutra]

My point was just because you share some values with someone does not mean you share all. Minister, professor, friend, what have you. Just because he shared the same religious values does not mean they share the same personal values, thoughts and ideas. He could have like him as a person and as his minster but thought he was a fucking idiot when it came to government conspiracies.

If you had a Biology professor who denied evolution, how long would you stay in the class? The answer is pretty obvious, if you agree with the professor you'll stay, if you're sane you'll get out.

Classes with professors (at least ones you can engage with) who disagree with your position and you can have an actual debate and discussion with have served me a 100xs better than any professor who thinks one idea is golden and there's no other viewpoint.

Yes, but a Biology professor that doesnt beleive in evolution and a priest that beleives the government invented AIDS is beyond "a different view", its plain wrong and simply retarded. If you go somewhere for counceling/education/instruction, you better hope those people represent sane views when examining where all a person gets their perspective on the world.

If you dont think Obama agrees with anything Wright said (and he said ALOT of fucked up shit) over the years, then you are a bit naive. You cant sit and listen to a mentor for that long and say "I just listened, but didnt really agree". Something always sinks in. Not to mention the fact that he should have walked out of that place long ago.

[ronin sparthos]

If you dont think Obama agrees with anything Wright said (and he said ALOT of fucked up shit) over the years, then you are a bit naive. You cant sit and listen to a mentor for that long and say "I just listened, but didnt really agree". Something always sinks in. Not to mention the fact that he should have walked out of that place long ago.

I could argue listening to someone that i didnt agree with could give me a more rounded view of how to handle the situation at hand, namely the presidency. Something doesnt always have to sink in and infact you could have the opposite reaction and have a drive to want to change things by hearing the negative aspect of the situation.