Down to the wire in Indiana: Next move for Clinton?

[Correction]

If he reputed the craziness, why is he just now realizing it and now distancing himself from it? If you always thought someone was a psychopath, why would you continue going to listen to him and not distance yourself from him until everyone else discovered what a nutjob he is?

It doesn't add up

Antonin Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg are very close friends. Believe it or not, they don't fall on the same sides on extremely important issues, as much time as they spend in each other's company. You're allowed to say 'my friend's crazy, and I'm not the same as my friend. The reason he's distancing himself now from Wright is that it's causing a lot of static that distracts from any actual issues the campaign may or may not be about, such as the economy or the war in Iraq.

[Selamis]

Did Obama agree with things Wright said in the past? Possibly so. Did Obama agree with Wright when he made outrageous claims and stabbed him in the back? You bet your ass he didn't.

You're friends with someone for 20 years, this friend is a bit out there and says some stupid things from time to time, but he's always there for you when you need him. One day you catch him in bed with your wife....you no longer want anything to do with this friend, and quickly move to sever all ties with said person because he's betrayed your trust (not to mention commited the ultimate "man code" sin.) It's somewhat what happened with Obama and Wright, if you ask me.

[Demosthenes11]

If he reputed the craziness, why is he just now realizing it and now distancing himself from it? If you always thought someone was a psychopath, why would you continue going to listen to him and not distance yourself from him until everyone else discovered what a nutjob he is?

It doesn't add up

Antonin Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg are very close friends. Believe it or not, they don't fall on the same sides on extremely important issues, as much time as they spend in each other's company. You're allowed to say 'my friend's crazy, and I'm not the same as my friend. The reason he's distancing himself now from Wright is that it's causing a lot of static that distracts from any actual issues the campaign may or may not be about, such as the economy or the war in Iraq.

oh god, world must be ending for me to say this........................................see neosutra's post
Making that comparison is retarded lol
/melt

[Beckwin]

I thought the primary purpose of attending a church was for spiritual reasons, and the primary function of a pastor is spiritual counseling. Wright's "controversial" statements are all of social/political nature.

Do you have to believe in the political views of your pastor to be a part of a church? I really wouldn't know, but it seems silly.

[Correction]

If he reputed the craziness, why is he just now realizing it and now distancing himself from it? If you always thought someone was a psychopath, why would you continue going to listen to him and not distance yourself from him until everyone else discovered what a nutjob he is?

It doesn't add up

Antonin Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg are very close friends. Believe it or not, they don't fall on the same sides on extremely important issues, as much time as they spend in each other's company. You're allowed to say 'my friend's crazy, and I'm not the same as my friend. The reason he's distancing himself now from Wright is that it's causing a lot of static that distracts from any actual issues the campaign may or may not be about, such as the economy or the war in Iraq.

oh god, world must be ending for me to say this........................................see neosutra's post
Making that comparison is retarded lol
/melt

This isn't the same as saying 'Barack doesn't agree with anything Wright says.' Learn to fucking read. The Wright controversy is overblown and has only succeeded in drawing out fame for a minister's views that do not deserve additional fame. When Barack Obama goes ahead and parrots the theories about the government creating HIV to kill Black people and accuses Whitey of genocide we'll talk. Until then stop misinterpreting what I say and respond with something more than 'lol' for a change.

[ronin sparthos]

Did Obama agree with things Wright said in the past? Possibly so. Did Obama agree with Wright when he made outrageous claims and stabbed him in the back? You bet your ass he didn't.

You're friends with someone for 20 years, this friend is a bit out there and says some stupid things from time to time, but he's always there for you when you need him. One day you catch him in bed with your wife....you no longer want anything to do with this friend, and quickly move to sever all ties with said person because he's betrayed your trust (not to mention commited the ultimate "man code" sin.) It's somewhat what happened with Obama and Wright, if you ask me.

Replace catching him in bed with his wife with 'capitalized on Obamas bad press with speeches to better himself' and you have it pretty much summarized. Wright crossed the line in an attempt to improve his popularity, Obama then had good reason to cut him off completely.

I dont see where people draw a conclusion that you can just up and say 'fuck you' to someone you've been friends with for 20 years because they say things you dont agree with. Most people would naturally say 'well, im not my friend - and my friend isnt running for office' in response to a friends idiotic commentary. The man baptized Obamas kids, naturally he wouldnt want to throw his pal under the bus - he'd want to make a logical distinction between himself and Wright before that.

[Enkidu]

This isn't the same as saying 'Barack doesn't agree with anything Wright says.' Learn to fucking read. The Wright controversy is overblown and has only succeeded in drawing out fame for a minister's views that do not deserve additional fame. When Barack Obama goes ahead and parrots the theories about the government creating HIV to kill Black people and accuses Whitey of genocide we'll talk. Until then stop misinterpreting what I say and respond with something more than 'lol' for a change.

Judging a persons future based on their past actions is not a science, but it's a hell of a lot better then just saying "durrr give him a chance guyz!". Would have worked well for other Presidents...

Also the "friends" argument is lame. A minister is a position of authority, Obama sitting in a pew and listening to that drivel is pretty damning. If he left the church many years ago and just claimed to be friends with Wright, that's different, but that's not the situation.

[Correction]

This isn't the same as saying 'Barack doesn't agree with anything Wright says.' Learn to fucking read. The Wright controversy is overblown and has only succeeded in drawing out fame for a minister's views that do not deserve additional fame. When Barack Obama goes ahead and parrots the theories about the government creating HIV to kill Black people and accuses Whitey of genocide we'll talk. Until then stop misinterpreting what I say and respond with something more than 'lol' for a change.

Judging a persons future based on their past actions is not a science, but it's a hell of a lot better then just saying "durrr give him a chance guyz!". Would have worked well for other Presidents...

Also the "friends" argument is lame. A minister is a position of authority, Obama sitting in a pew and listening to that drivel is pretty damning. If he left the church many years ago and just claimed to be friends with Wright, that's different, but that's not the situation.

You know what you're right, let's go track down every member of this church and ask them why they're such nincompoop racists, because clearly the longer they continue to attend, the more complicit they are in their pastor's moments of utter retardation.

[Beckwin]

Were the majority of Wright sermons about the government giving black people AIDS?

If you want to talk about pastors, talk about Falwell, Hagee, and Parsely- collectively the "<insert disaster> was God punishing the US for being faggot lovers".

and we can talk about McCain's adulterous past and gambling, anger, and racial insensitivity problems. And accepting bribes.

[Melchiah]

You two conservative cheerleaders need to get over yourselves.

[Kuya]

People go to churches for the sermons? And here i thought a sizable quantity just mindlessly go to church out of tradition/habit. Has Wright actually said any of these things before then? I see alot of people bring up why Obama kept him as his pastor if these are Wrights' views, but is there any evidence that for the better part of 20 years in which Obama has gone to his church that Wright had actually consistently made statements like these?

It seems to be that people are making assumptions that Wright had made these opinions of him public numerous times before, or that he even thought like this before, furthermore, arguing that this reflects heavily on Obama's character is a stretch.

[Weeks]

Clinton has to be staying in the race at this point to pressure Obama into accepting her as his runningmate. She knows the math, and she has no chance to fall back into a leadership position at the senate with the stink of a blown campaign and her turning on the party with this trickle-down gas tax holiday nonsense for the sake of a talking point. Obama has to decide which hurts him more: This race going to the convention, or diluting his "change" message by running with a Clinton as VP.

Incidentally, the way the Lake County thing played out last night was rather amusing. In the long run, all Lake County did was cut Hillary's narrow margin in the state by a third. By sitting on the results for hours, then releasing the Gary results (75% Obama) first, then a batch of relatively even results, and the finally the rural results (Overwhelmingly Clinton) last, he got the media talking all night about whether Obama was going to manage to pull this one and how Clinton seemingly managed to blow her lead. Even an Obama supporter like me saw it immediately after the fact as a transparent attempt to manipulate the media coverage by the Lake County election board. Yet they didn't do anything that they could actually get into trouble for. Smarter political gamesmanship on the part of Gary's mayor than I imagined he was capable of from the phone interview he gave.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Were the majority of Wright sermons about the government giving black people AIDS?

If you want to talk about pastors, talk about Falwell, Hagee, and Parsely- collectively the "<insert disaster> was God punishing the US for being faggot lovers".

and we can talk about McCain's adulterous past and gambling, anger, and racial insensitivity problems. And accepting bribes.

As soon as the primary is over you'll get your media going after McCain, don't worry. The New York Times has been doing it at least once or twice a month so far.

[Septimus]

Were the majority of Wright sermons about the government giving black people AIDS?

If you want to talk about pastors, talk about Falwell, Hagee, and Parsely- collectively the "<insert disaster> was God punishing the US for being faggot lovers".

and we can talk about McCain's adulterous past and gambling, anger, and racial insensitivity problems. And accepting bribes.

Didn't you get the memo? Saying that the government gave black people AIDS is very, very wrong.

Saying the following:

Jerry Falwell: "The ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this. And I know I'll hear from them for this, but throwing God...successfully with the help of the federal court system...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."

Pat Robertson: "I totally concur, and the problem is we've adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government, and so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do, and the top people, of course, is the court system."

Is totally acceptable, and in no way lunacy. In fact, you get to remain a respected figure in the political world. I certainly see no hypocrisy there.

[Beckwin]

Were the majority of Wright sermons about the government giving black people AIDS?

If you want to talk about pastors, talk about Falwell, Hagee, and Parsely- collectively the "<insert disaster> was God punishing the US for being faggot lovers".

and we can talk about McCain's adulterous past and gambling, anger, and racial insensitivity problems. And accepting bribes.

As soon as the primary is over you'll get your media going after McCain, don't worry. The New York Times has been doing it at least once or twice a month so far.

And that's exactly what I'm waiting for. Obama is too clean, so all Hillary and the conservative media has been doing is continually blowing Wright out of proportion and it's aggravating, while at the same time Obama doesn't want to fire back too potently so as to not divide or alienate parts of the Democratic party from his campaign down the line (the Clintons are still very popular and influential in the party). As soon as it becomes the Presidential race instead of the primary, Wright will be an easier issue to deflect.

[Kuya]

Jerry Falwell: "The ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this. And I know I'll hear from them for this, but throwing God...successfully with the help of the federal court system...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."

Pat Robertson: "I totally concur, and the problem is we've adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government, and so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do, and the top people, of course, is the court system."

Is totally acceptable, and in no way lunacy. In fact, you get to remain a respected figure in the political world. I certainly see no hypocrisy there.

I am appalled sir. We bisexuals try just as hard as any gay or lesbian to destroy the founding principals of America. How dare he not recognize our efforts.

[Beckwin]

oh and either Hagee or Parsely are proponents of a war with Iran because it would bring about the Rapture.


. . .

[Conrad]

I don't see an Obama/Clinton ticket winning in November. It's too polarizing.

Give Clinton a Cabinet or adviser position in exchange for her concession. I'm not a fan of either Party, but I'd rather the Democrats win this year than the GOP.

If only third parties actually had a voice in this country. More than two voices to represent 300 million people -- what an idea!

[TacoTaru]

oh and either Hagee or Parsely are proponents of a war with Iran because it would bring about the Rapture.


. . .

I can't think of a better reason.

[Xavier]

She knows the math.

A lot of the comments in this thread have really irked me and what you said sums up my complaint.

I know the math too and -neither- candidate can secure the nomination with pledged delegates alone. Super-delegates are designed as independent voters, and can vote for whichever candidate they feel is best for the party. In a race for the single most important job in the entire world, I can understand why she is continuing to fight when she hasn't "lost".

When I see posts saying that "nobody wants you Hillary, go home", I can't help but wonder what that opinion is based on. Its true that she is behind in pledged delegates, and a bit behind in the popular vote, but not so far behind that it'd be accurate to tell her that "nobody" wants her to win. Last I saw the popular vote was sitting around 49% Obama, 47% Hillary. The popular vote isn't a measure of winning the nomination but it certainly is an indication of support.

She is behind in the pledged delegate count, but her argument, which is somewhat logical even though its completely irrelevant to the actual rules, is that Obama's delegate lead is the result of his victories in both caucuses and states which will never vote for a democrat in the fall.

Blame the DNC for having a primary system in which a complete deadlock is possible, not the candidate for staying in the race when neither of them can win without superdelegates.