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  1. #1
    Vacht
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    +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    Constantly being told different, id like to get a firm confirmation to seal all speculation amongst my LS mates and I.

    So the way i see it, evasion skill+ helps you evade higher level monsters, but evasion+ helps you evade more frequently. But thinking about that again im not really sure if that could be true.

    Some tell me to just stack evasion skill because that too adds evasion, just the same as stacking a weapon's skill it adds accuracy.

    I did a few tests in ballista against a monk with 299 hand to hand. At first he was naked with just faith torque and destroyers. I was naked except boxer mantle and evasion torque which brought me to 301 evasion skill. I was evading OK, but not the best. etc etc

    I was trying to meet my skill with his, then add enough evasion+ to meet his acc+ and my agility with his dexterity. Id like to this with monsters as well, but we arent that fortunate to have received asses stats.

    So what would be the best way to gear evasion for tanking NMs and HNMs? Stack all my evasion skill, then evasion+? I solo a lot, and also duo with a bard or red mage.

  2. #2
    Sea Torques
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    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    +evasion = bonus from +agi.
    +evasion skill = bonus from leveling up.

    would you'd evade something more by being lower level with +eva gear compared to higher level without +eva gear. you can do the math.

  3. #3
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    would you'd evade something more by being lower level with +eva gear compared to higher level without +eva gear. you can do the math.
    If there was math to do or actual evasion stuff in stone, it would be much easier to "do the math."

    If I evasion tank something, I usually gear in this priority:

    Evasion Skill >> Agi (if a large enough quantity) >> Evasion +

    This has worked best for me... however:

    There are many schools of thought on this, some think Evasion + is more effective. I don't know if anyone has a conclusive answer to this, I just go on my experience (if someone does please share... I've only heard "from friends" like you and have never seen data on it). If you want to see a really maxed out set, look at Ruke's LJ evasion build (it's getting old, but always send people there!): http://rukenshin.livejournal.com/14854.html

    I'd probably work in some more agi, but as he says, it dodges pretty much anything (if it works for you, don't fix it!). In my case I usually evasion tank in an osode because I seem to get better results with the +10 agi as opposed to +10 evasion. I would say just use the "best" piece that you have for the slot- there aren't too many places that +evasion and +skill conflict. For example, when I got my ritters I sold my evasion torque for the sake of inventory (+7 skill vs +5 evasion, hp, and enmity?- pretty easy decision even thought the torque may be "better" for evasion).

  4. #4

    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    2 AGI = 1 Evasion (or did a year ago when I checked it), this can be verified easily with Frost and /check. So unless you are worried about crits (and most people are worried about evading enough to help keep shadows up, I think), Evasion gear should be before AGI unless the AGI value exceeds twice the evasion.

    As for skill vs. straight evasion +, I have no idea. Best way to check is probably some steelshell parsing.

  5. #5
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    Evasion gear should be before AGI unless the AGI value exceeds twice the evasion.
    That's basically what I was trying to say, but didn't want to give hard examples since I feel people should do what works for them

    It would make sense for it to be 2-1 ratio, like dex-acc, str-att, etc. However, these are the 3 reasons I like agi / things that make agi interesting:

    1) Parry procs
    2) Would appear to be tied to dex checks in addition to your evasion- seems to compensate for "diminishing returns" on heavy evasion builds (as all stats eventually get depending on what you’re fighting)
    3) As you said, also seems to count as "evasion" with the 2-1 ratio

  6. #6

    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    It's the same way you do DEX and acc and the same way you calculate accuracy from skill levels.

    Over 200 evasion skill it's 0.9*eva.
    1 evasion on gear is 1 eva.
    2 AGI = 1 eva.

    Add them up.

  7. #7

    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    So I mean okay. It's a reasonable starting place to assume that it works like other combat skills (1:1 until 200, 10:9 after), but I've never seen that confirmed anywhere for evasion that I can remember.

  8. #8
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    That's because it hasn't been. People post this stuff like it’s common knowledge, even though I’ve never seen _any_ proof of it. If there is, please post it and I’ll gladly eat my hat just so I can finally know the definitive answer.

    Using the standard skill == other stat calculation, you could also assume that skill does more in some strange way. Think about combat skills (att + acc) or magic skills (damage + accuracy? I’m no mage -_-. We only assume that it doesn’t do anything else because no one knows. People will pull up other defensive skills and say “all it does it make it proc more based on X,” but who here can tell me SE in 100% consistent in their methods? Does skill have an affect on Agi calculations with evades? Would +evasion gear affect this? Etc etc.

    Over 200 evasion skill it's 0.9*eva.
    1 evasion on gear is 1 eva.
    2 AGI = 1 eva.
    It's good speculation I suppose, but it's still speculation as far as skill is concerned.

  9. #9

    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    Quote Originally Posted by Suiram
    So I mean okay. It's a reasonable starting place to assume that it works like other combat skills (1:1 until 200, 10:9 after), but I've never seen that confirmed anywhere for evasion that I can remember.
    but is there a mob DEX vs. PC AGI check that reduces the effectiveness of Evasion? I know there's not one for player vs. mob (at least I don't recall there being one), but it's extremely hard to actually test this one except for doing WSes on things to get their AGI values, and even then you're going to need something you can let die multiple times, or ridiculous testing on 21-24 hour pops/mobs that need multiple people to kill.

    I'm a firm believer, however, in Skill > Evasion > AGI, if you don't have capped Parry (and 99.9% of people don't, even with THF NIN PLD RDM etc etc 75 [14 total] my Parry was 197 when I quit, and was 168 for the LONGEST time in the world from ninjar) (and jesus I just figured out why that happened holy shit and that was 3 years ago)

  10. #10

    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    well from what i recall from personal experience on lower level mobs in comparison to your current level evasion skill > evasion. However on higher level mobs in comparison to your current level evasion > evasion skill.

  11. #11
    Hydra
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    Re: +Evasion skill and +Evasion - speculation~

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacht
    So the way i see it, evasion skill+ helps you evade higher level monsters, but evasion+ helps you evade more frequently. But thinking about that again im not really sure if that could be true.
    That's my current religion; Evasion Skill + in order to "meet the requirements" while fighting monsters from an higher level, Evasion + to evade more. Basically merge the two stats, you'll evade monsters from an higher level more often.

    Eole - THF75,
    Gilgamesh.

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