Is SSBB a good game? Y/N (Yahtzee split)

[Correction]

I don't get people like you, Ryko. Why the fuck do you feel the urge to defend this game that much?

Why do people the 'urge' to attack SSBB? Surely if you want to comment on someone speaking for the game you can comment on those speaking against. It's the same shit after all.

I didn't know thinking Yahtzee has valid points about Brawl was the same as 'attacking.' This entire argument so easily slips into Team Retard vs. Team Fanboy because of the 'us vs. them' mentality.

[Lindstrom]

If you don't like the game there's a good chance you're just playing with the wrong people

Who the fuck is Lucas?

I love EarthBound a whole lot but I had no idea who he was either until they announced him in Brawl and looked him up. Considering he appears in 1 game aside from Brawl and it's only in Japan, it's pretty obscure but not as unusual as Roy, who's very first appearence in anything was Melee (his actual game came out after I hear).

[Kuya]

SBB is a good game, it just got overhyped. Yahtzee's points were valid, so i don't really know what there is to fight about.

[BRP]

I don't really care if people think SSBB is a good game or not. What does matter is:

Yahtzee's points were valid,

Because most were not.

And here is another example of shit:

Exoduso(doesn't know a lot about the game): It takes forever to unlock characters!

Ryko(knows a lot about the game): No, it does not. Because of x and y.

Exoduso: You are just saying that because you are a fanboy.


SSBB has its problems, most of which you won't understand unless you like fighting games. Yahtzee does not, so like wut.


Also: Anderian and Meteora are the worst posters on this forums when it comes to videogames. Please, both of you, shut up forever.

[Atma]

Yahtzee said in one of his reviews that the #1 thing he looks for in a game is if it teaches him something, and he's also a big stickler for originality. He's not a fighting game fan, and he's certainly not very much of a Nintendo fan, and doesn't have friends to play the game with on a regular basis, so what else does Brawl have to offer? Brawl is a bundle of fanservice directed at Nintendo fans with the original content level running on E. So he took all the flaws and dislikes from the game and blew them out of proportion in a funny way because he's paid (I guess?) to.

It's fine if you dislike the game, you can't expect everyone to like it, although there were a number of things in the review I disagree with (The camera zooming out definately isn't a problem except for a few select stages), but the thing I just can't understand is why he dislikes secret characters. It takes all of a few hours to unlock all the characters and unless you bought the game for the soul purpose of bringing to a single party it's really not that big a deal. I hated games like Mario Party where all the characters but two are unlocked from the get go, feels like there's nothing to strive for.

But anyway, that aside, the only thing about Brawl that really let me down (Aside from Mewtwo being cut) is how less intense 1 vs 1's are. It just feels like no matter how skilled you are against your opponent they'll be able to weasel out of your stuff and that's pretty lame. I realize they did that intetionally as to not alienate newcomers but it feels like practicing will eventually reach diminishing returns, as oppossed to Melee which I played everyday for years and always got better. But that's just me.

[Anderian]

I don't have an opinion about SSBB as I haven't played it (it's not released in EU), my Melee playtime is counted in days though, if that counts for something. Mostly played it with my brother.
And from your sig and avatar I just assumed you would be one of the foaming-from-the-mouth Brawl fanboys. (Ryko)
Anyway, I just found it a bit funny that back when Yahtzee bashed Halo 3, everyone was sharing a laugh. Now Yahtzee expresses his dislike for Brawl, after apparently countless "fans" of his practically begged him to review it, and suddenly everyone thinks he's just a troll or is *trying* to get people to hate him. Apparently Nintendo games are serious business.

I found this to be especially funny: (taken from thread: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=32980&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)

But seriously, thinking Yahtzee is full of shit doesn't make you a fanboy. I don't care if he doesn't like the game, he's says things that are not true to justify why he doesn't like it. I could go over his entire review and point out things that just don't add up and not sound like a strawman right out of his recent video. I'm sure plenty of people can, yet none of their opinions will appear in a video where he basically masturbate his ego and cums on the faces of people who disagree with him. This is kind of a new low for him.

Brilliant move there, writing the bolded part and then releasing your fanboy goo all over the post. :D
Again, I can't comment on the part about him "saying things that are not true", because I haven't played the game, but that whole post just screams "fanboy".

Oh, also, nice going with that remark about me being a shitty poster when it comes to videogames. Classy move there. Totally proves you are not a fanboy.

[Correction]

I don't really care if people think SSBB is a good game or not. What does matter is:

Yahtzee's points were valid,

Because most were not.

Wait wait wait. His core complaints about the game are invalid? How?

SSBB doesn't use the dated concept of forced-unlock of characters in an inherently multiplayer game?

Unlocking said characters doesn't turn you into 'that guy?'

The movement of characters doesn't get obscured by zooming, small character size and particle effects?

The single player game doesn't force you to replay every level twice?

Yahtzee listed the reasons why he and his four friends were underwhelmed after an evening of playing it 4 players from the moment the disc was unwrapped. If you're going to say his reasons are invalid you might want to try harder, because honestly just saying 'NUH-UH' is insufficient.

[BRP]

Correction:

SSBB doesn't use the dated concept of forced-unlock of characters in an inherently multiplayer game?

Dated would mean people don't use it anymore. How is it dated when most games use it? Also: guns, cars, areas, maps, spells, weapons, etc etc. There is certainly people who appreciate unlocking stuff. It was one of the best things about the two previous games.

Unlocking said characters doesn't turn you into 'that guy?'

Playing the game a lot makes you good at it. I don't know how that becomes a complaint, but maybe I'm missing what you are trying to say.

The movement of characters doesn't get obscured by zooming, small character size and particle effects?

No. I've already been over this in another thread. Only a few amount of stages have this problem. I need to see evidence to provide otherwise.

The single player game doesn't force you to replay every level twice?

Only worthwhile complaint and the only reason why someone might find unlocking characters annoying, although they could skip a lot of it. Do any of the character break 300 matches to unlock? I'm not entirely sure, but that's less than 2 hours of work with some cheesing. But yeah, everyone hated the Great Maze.

Yahtzee listed the reasons why he and his four friends were underwhelmed after an evening of playing it 4 players from the moment the disc was unwrapped.

So Brawl didn't turn out a game where you just unleash it on to a bunch of people who never played before. Most games are not. Maybe that's why it's not actually a party game like Mario Party or Warioware Wii?

Also there are more things he said I could also dispute.

Anderian:

Anyway, I just found it a bit funny that back when Yahtzee bashed Halo 3, everyone was sharing a laugh. Now Yahtzee expresses his dislike for Brawl, after apparently countless "fans" of his practically begged him to review it, and suddenly everyone thinks he's just a troll or is *trying* to get people to hate him. Apparently Nintendo games are serious business.

When he was fresh, I liked him. Then he started making stupid mistakes and doing more and more unrelated rants. I'm not sure where Halo 3 falls into the timeline, but I haven't really liked most of his reviews for awhile now. And I'm not the only one, it's been going on before Brawl. A lot of people knew Brawl was going to be a giant shitstorm because his drop in quality and how much he said he hated Brawl already. Sorry if I don't sympathize with "THEY MADE HIM REVIEW IT". He called himself a "critic", so now all is fair game to me.

Brilliant move there, writing the bolded part and then releasing your fanboy goo all over the post.

The first sentence is saying I can see where is he is wrong without liking the game(by listing comparing facts and statements). The rest of the paragraph is basically just that + how this video made him look like an ass because none of those e-mails were valid.

Oh, also, nice going with that remark about me being a shitty poster when it comes to videogames.

Thanks, now can you shut up.

[Ryko]

I don't really care if people think SSBB is a good game or not. What does matter is:

Yahtzee's points were valid,

Because most were not.

Wait wait wait. His core complaints about the game are invalid? How?

SSBB doesn't use the dated concept of forced-unlock of characters in an inherently multiplayer game?

Unlocking said characters doesn't turn you into 'that guy?'

The movement of characters doesn't get obscured by zooming, small character size and particle effects?

The single player game doesn't force you to replay every level twice?

Yahtzee listed the reasons why he and his four friends were underwhelmed after an evening of playing it 4 players from the moment the disc was unwrapped. If you're going to say his reasons are invalid you might want to try harder, because honestly just saying 'NUH-UH' is insufficient.

His only valid complaint was the double levels, you can't give a game the acknowledgement of putting a lot of time into a single player mode then bitch that they make you play it, which 3 of those complaints center around. He's literally complaining that the game forces you to play it (the horror) and thus by playing it you inherently become better at it (who would have thought?). It's less than basic that shielding keeps you alive, if you need the single player mode to teach you that when it says so in the 30 second "how to play" demo before even starting the game then you might want to check your pants because you might have forgotten how not to soil yourself.

As for particle effects, I happen to play like.. the 3 characters who don't really have those so I guess I'm blissfully ignorant.

[Charismatic]

BRP prefers to be called a Fanman, not a fanboy.
Get it right.

[Jefe]

Also: Anderian and Meteora are the worst posters on this forums when it comes to videogames. Please, both of you, shut up forever.

Why the fuck did I get dumped in this piece of shit thread, do you see me posting here (aside from this duh)? If you look at the post in the original thread, I didn't even mention this shitty ass game, because I don't give two shits for it. Next time you want to throw some shit at me, do so in the ones I lurk the most.

Other than that, have fun with your leaky vagina fucking fanboy.

Edit: Spelling, etc. It's on!

[Ryko]

Wow, way to totally prove him wrong there.

[Correction]

His only valid complaint was the double levels, you can't give a game the acknowledgement of putting a lot of time into a single player mode then bitch that they make you play it twice, which 3 of those complaints center around. He's literally complaining that the game forces you to play it twice(the horror) and thus by playing it you inherently become better at it (who would have thought?).

So because he didn't spend the requisite hours unlocking every character alone before trying to play it with three friends he's wrong that it's bad design to make a multiplayer game that forces hours of single player before you get the most out of multiplayer?

I call bullshit. I never spent hours and hours playing Street Fighter II by myself before challenging other people and enjoying it. I certainly didn't run around in maps in TF2 by myself training for actual online play. To reiterate:

Forcing gamers to play levels twice is bad design.
Being unable to play a full game (or with half the advertised characters) with your friends immediately at unwrap is lame (a criticism just as easily leveled at other recent fighters and Guitar Hero).
Animation that's hard to make out due to particle effects and very small avatar size...is hard to make out and contributes to the image that you might as well be mashing buttons randomly for all that you can make out is going on. This was true of Melee, perhaps moreso.

That's the essence of his SSBB review. Disagreeing with him doesn't make you a fanboy unless you start talking above your understanding of the game's design (e.g. the parcelheads sending email in his last review). But let's not call his opinions 'invalid' just because he doesn't like fighting games that he and 3 of his friends didn't have much fun playing. The only reason his review brought out emotional responses is that he restated his hatred of Nintendo's endless recycling of IP time and again and using the 'f' word in the first place.

[Ryko]

So because he didn't spend the requisite hours unlocking every character alone before trying to play it with three friends he's wrong that it's bad design to make a multiplayer game that forces hours of single player before you get the most out of multiplayer?

Yes, he's wrong because single player isn't even stuck to 1 person either. He could have easily played it with 1 friend, gone through the 3 hours to unlock what he wants, then played with the characters he wanted in the multiplayer mode that is by design just pick up and go. Would you have rather he gotten a special game where all the characters were unlocked then left the review to just "omg fighters button mashing but screw the single player"? You are sayign that it is bad game design to make someone play the game instead of leaving it to complaints about the actual gameplay, of which he had 1 valid one (and it wasnt a gameplay complaint but rather a design complaint) and anyone who has spent maybe 5 minutes playing it knows that the zooming thing is stuck to like 2 stages, 3 if you count a custom one.

Unlocking stuff in games is the norm, just because something has a robust multiplayer mode does not preclude something that these days is pretty much a staple.

[Anderian]

Thanks, now can you shut up.

Jesus christ you are retarded.
You have over 9000 posts of spewing shit like this and you are telling me to shut up? Go stick your dick in that Wii if you love it so much, asshole.

Edit: You know what I find funny? The fact that I didn't even say anything bad about SSBB to begin with, and yet still you attack me. Thanks.

[Charismatic]

So because he didn't spend the requisite hours unlocking every character alone before trying to play it with three friends he's wrong that it's bad design to make a multiplayer game that forces hours of single player before you get the most out of multiplayer?

Yes, he's wrong because single player isn't even stuck to 1 person either. He could have easily played it with 1 friend, gone through the 3 hours to unlock what he wants, then played with the characters he wanted in the multiplayer mode that is by design just pick up and go. Would you have rather he gotten a special game where all the characters were unlocked then left the review to just "omg fighters button mashing but screw the single player"? You are sayign that it is bad game design to make someone play the game instead of leaving it to complaints about the actual gameplay, of which he had 1 valid one (and it wasnt a gameplay complaint but rather a design complaint) and anyone who has spent maybe 5 minutes playing it knows that the zooming thing is stuck to like 2 stages, 3 if you count a custom one.

Well, my cousin wouldn't agree with you.
I didn't find it all that bothersome, but he certainly did.

[Ryko]

Your cousin has either bad eyes or is bitching for the sake of it, because I play this on a fucking 12 inch crt...

[Charismatic]

Your brother has either bad eyes or is bitching for the sake of it, because I play this on a fucking 12 inch crt...

Well, my cousin wouldn't agree with you.
I didn't find it all that bothersome, but he certainly did.

OK, not that it's the biggest mistake in the world, but I lol'd.



BAH, your ninja edit killed it.

[Ryko]

Totally beat you to it.

[BRP]

Haha, now I'm a Wii fanboy, alright. Bring up an argument or keep quiet, thanks.


Anyway, you don't have to play through SSE to be good at Brawl, in fact, it doesn't really help with the more competitive elements of Brawl. So I don't understand the part talking about "getting better at TF2...". Unlocking characters isn't a huge deal really, I could see how it can be bothersome though. More importantly, it certainly isn't dated.

No one is going to defend the Great Maze. Unfortunately, stuff like that is everywhere in other games too. I think devs want to get most out of their pretty backgrounds. They have All-Star mode and Boss Battles and you are able to replay levels at any time. It sucks.