SCH vs WHM in Nyzul

[Yutuyu]

Why would you even HAVE a SCH+RDM in your party for Nyzul, EVER?

Versitility is only a good thing when you need multiple roles performed. Being able to nuke is nice for slimes and puddings, but if your party has a BRD/WHM and a SCH for healing, you're never, ever going to have the MP to nuke and keep 4 melees alive. And you don't need magic damage to kill those slimes and puddings because the Slimes are really low level, and the puddings don't resist damage that heavily.

Honestly so many of your points built entirely on what seems to be a complete misunderstanding of what Nyzul is like, but I guess that could be a function of how you do Nyzul. My group takes a lot of damage because we're made up of entirely Seigan tanks.

Even so, I don't see how you can think SCH = WHM + BLM when SCH is essentially a lesser version of both and unable to do both at the same time unless he/she neglects to heal the melees and/or doesn't mind putting a large dent in their MP pool with costly nukes to do the amount of damage that the 4 melees in the group could do in less time with haste.

[Genosync]

Why would you even HAVE a SCH+RDM in your party for Nyzul, EVER?

Versitility is only a good thing when you need multiple roles performed. Being able to nuke is nice for slimes and puddings, but if your party has a BRD/WHM and a SCH for healing, you're never, ever going to have the MP to nuke and keep 4 melees alive. And you don't need magic damage to kill those slimes and puddings because the Slimes are really low level, and the puddings don't resist damage that heavily.

Honestly so many of your points built entirely on what seems to be a complete misunderstanding of what Nyzul is like, but I guess that could be a function of how you do Nyzul. My group takes a lot of damage because we're made up of entirely Seigan tanks.

Even so, I don't see how you can think SCH = WHM + BLM when SCH is essentially a lesser version of both and unable to do both at the same time unless he/she neglects to heal the melees and/or doesn't mind putting a large dent in their MP pool with costly nukes to do the amount of damage that the 4 melees in the group could do in less time with haste.

Sigh, whatever, just saying to try it with someone knowledgable enough and skilled enough to pull it off, and you'll be surprised.

With a bunch of two-handers relying solely on Seigan, though, sure, in this case you actually need Cure V.

And Niro, sweetie, having Strategems on 1 minute timers with 4 charges able to be stored has pretty much made Strategem use a non-issue. (almost)

[Midnightjade]

If you don't have a BRD with a Storm Fife, tell them to stop being lazy bastards and get one.

If they're doing Nyzul 7 tags a week, how exactly are they meant to do that? Want them to take a few weeks out to farm it, leaving your static one short?

I'm not trying to be rude, just pointing out that if someone enters a serious Nyzul static without specific pieces of Assault gear, there is absolutely NO WAY they can get those pieces without screwing the static. I currently have almost 100,000 Nyzul tokens and would love to be able to use them on Assault rewards, believe me.

With the SCH thing, I think both jobs have merit. A lot would depend on where the other Sleep in the static is coming from. If it's RDM Sleep, then you might want Repose. If it's Lullaby, then a Dark-based Sleep is going to be incredibly useful. Napping the mobs in Nyzul is really, really important (not aggroing them in the first place is even more important).

[orson]

There really aren't that many mobs immune or even strong vs light sleep. Light elementals (do those even pop in Nyzul,) hmmm, what else?

[Yutuyu]

There really aren't that many mobs immune or even strong vs light sleep. Light elementals (do those even pop in Nyzul,) hmmm, what else?

I've never seen an elemental in Nyzul. And I can't think of a single thing in Nyzul that will resist light but not dark. Lots of stuff will resist dark but not light, though. Gears, undead, etc.

[Ryko]

when I did nyzul we generally went with 2 DRKs, a thief, a blm, a rdm, and a brd.

I would gladly give up the BLM in that scenario for a sch who can do the nuking necessary on the way up then do great support on the boss floor, which is all the BLM was stuck doing anyway.

[Valena]

The most potent thing Whm has over Sch in Nyzul is Erase, I guess. I used it far over than the other status cures.

With your setup, the Scholar would need to go /whm to retain it, especially if you want your Brd to pull. I would go Whm/sch personally.

[Deftscythe]

The most potent thing Whm has over Sch in Nyzul is Erase, I guess. I used it far over than the other status cures.

With your setup, the Scholar would need to go /whm to retain it, especially if you want your Brd to pull. I would go Whm/sch personally.

Sch gets native erase.

[Eldelphia]

Even at 51 SCH I want to try this job in Nyzul eventually. I usually go WHM/SCH or BRD. I just got charge #3 and lower recharge timer and I would frankly love SCH's accession + erase for freaking flayers. Not sure whether SCH would keep up as well on Boss floors though. Be interesting to try once I get it up there.

[Valena]

The most potent thing Whm has over Sch in Nyzul is Erase, I guess. I used it far over than the other status cures.

With your setup, the Scholar would need to go /whm to retain it, especially if you want your Brd to pull. I would go Whm/sch personally.

Sch gets native erase.

And that's what you get talking about a job leveled at 37
There sure is a freaking advantage to be able to spam Erasega more than every 10 minutes.

[Linktri]

I hate to admit it but Geno's right. Most parties don't need a fuckton of healing in Nyzul. RDM + BRD should be able to cover the healing. We often go with a BLM in the 3rd mage slot. If we had a SCH we'd probably take that instead due to the versatility.

[Midnightjade]

There really aren't that many mobs immune or even strong vs light sleep. Light elementals (do those even pop in Nyzul,) hmmm, what else?

I've never seen an elemental in Nyzul. And I can't think of a single thing in Nyzul that will resist light but not dark. Lots of stuff will resist dark but not light, though. Gears, undead, etc.

I thought frogs were Light-resist, since they resist Finale (all the time) but not Dispel. I must admit I can't remember if they reisist Lullaby/Sleep though.

Can somebody confirm/deny? Thanks!

[layoneil]

I thought frogs were Light-resist, since they resist Finale (all the time) but not Dispel. I must admit I can't remember if they reisist Lullaby/Sleep though.

Can somebody confirm/deny? Thanks!

frogs definitely don't sleep to Lullaby or Repose, idk if dark sleep works.

I hate to admit it but Geno's right. Most parties don't need a fuckton of healing in Nyzul. RDM + BRD should be able to cover the healing.

how can he be right if the group in the OP has no RDM?

4 melee 1 BRD + WHM or SCH is about the same thing.

[Midnightjade]

Just remembered that Sabotenders are also Light-resist, as I found to my cost when somebody aggroed one of the NMs in Nyzul Isle and it smacked me with 1000 needles immediately following Lullaby resist.

Not that it makes any difference to the discussion (which btw seems to have died), but figured to post it for completeness/out of compulsiveness.

[Kimiko]

SCH RDM BRD melee melee melee

think about it, think more closely of the benefits of having extra damage from a job along with other things that it is able to do as well, like Graviga and Bindga and shit

nuking

still can sleep things

still can cure really well

can AoE status cures when necessary

Here, look at it this way.

What can WHM do that Scholar can't?
- Cure V
- Status Cures w/o JA (strategem) use
- Regen III, Raise III
- Light based Sleep
- Haste (this is not an issue however with RDM SCH BRD setup)

these are all things that are not necessary, truly, in Nyzul

What can SCH do that WHM can't?
- Tier IV nukes
- Helices
- AoE status cures without waiting 10 minutes
- AoE any buff (Stoneskin, hi)
- AoE any movement stopping spell (making the lack of light-based sleep a non-issue)
AMONG OTHER THINGS.

SCH has so much more versatility in the slot overall, as long as you go with RDM SCH BRD melee melee melee. It's like having a BLM and a WHM in the same goddamn job, because we all know that RDM does not fit that category perfectly. You don't need massive healing support in Nyzul, you don't need a White Mage. Honestly, if there's no need for Cure Vs somewhere, WHM is seriously teetering on the edge of being a pointless job (and I leveled it to 75 thinking it would be useful for me to have it, too).

Stop thinking so one-sided. People can handle more than just the basic responsibilities, like a devoted slot that only Cures... if they want to actually put forth the effort.

Salvage: WHM plz
Nyzul: WHM gtfo, gimme more versatility out of my party slot

hi2u White Magic Restricted.

[solsovly]

frogs definitely don't sleep to Lullaby or Repose, idk if dark sleep works.

Our RDM has slept frogs before. So has our BLU, but not sure which sleep she used. I've never been able to land finale or lullaby on frogs though.

[Kriz]

Abilities restricted = pain as a WHM/SCH, I can't imagine it being good for a full SCH.

No way to use Sublimation, so if it's up, it won't go away until death. Stuck on Dark Arts and you're pwned...

[Midnightjade]

frogs definitely don't sleep to Lullaby or Repose, idk if dark sleep works.

Our RDM has slept frogs before. So has our BLU, but not sure which sleep she used. I've never been able to land finale or lullaby on frogs though.

Thanks for the good info. I also retried both Finale and Lullaby on frogs last night and couldn't land either, but RDM Dispel and Sleep were ok (Poroggo Gent floor). So they're definitely Light-resist.

[Lyramion]

I usually am the WHM for Nyzul.


Some days Cerberus has a really bad day on Floor 80 or 100. No slow or elegy want to land while he keeps spamming stoneskin outliving peoples fanaticsdrinks. I remember to have gone into a spam cure 5 & 4 rotation more than once because of him and an early failed Seigan. Eventually I even got hate.


I imagine in a curespam situation SCH would do fine on MP of course but his hate could get over the top early.



I have also done some other setups with my secondary group like BRD WHM BLM backrow where my Haste was actually needed.

[Pumaite]

There sure is a freaking advantage to be able to spam Erasega more than every 10 minutes.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Cleric%27s_Drink
200 points for an erasega +1.