2H vs 1H question

[Therin]

Huh? What, it's a bad idea because it lowers your damage?

I think /sam is a larger problem than the 2h update, my bad?

Or am I wrong and a /sam doesn't get 10%?

No, you're right. My point is that you're wanting to nerf something after they finally balanced it, which is pretty fucking dumb.

[FailureMidgard]

You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?

I'd rather see a change to /sam than to the 2h mechanics, as that is more likely the cause of the no-merit, subpar AHed war/sam outdmging others. And let's be serious here, as Ruke posted, Sam can sub drg for 5% haste in an ear-slot, and it beats out /war (yeayea, there's jumps and acc bonus also, but the big deal is the haste). If they lowered Hasso to 5% haste and 5 accuracy, it would -still- be the most used sub by 2h DD.

[Max™]

I'd sub Sam if it didn't have Hasso, since I'm so partial to 6 hit/Seigan/TE, and even a 60 Tp meditate when used right is pretty handy.

Hasso is just the delicious frosting on top of a delicious cake.

No more nerfs, give people new toys, it's a great hook, completely reinvigorated the game for me, I'm still just beating stuff up with a great axe like I always was, but it's so much better, and RR rocks so hard.

[Liquidedust]

I'd sub Sam if it didn't have Hasso, since I'm so partial to 6 hit/Seigan/TE, and even a 60 Tp meditate when used right is pretty handy.

Hasso is just the delicious frosting on top of a delicious cake.

No more nerfs, give people new toys, it's a great hook, completely reinvigorated the game for me, I'm still just beating stuff up with a great axe like I always was, but it's so much better, and RR rocks so hard.

Short of situations where I need to deal damage extremely fast I never really use Hasso, /SAM for me is generally 6hit/Meditate/Seigan/TE love for me when I exp.

[Max™]

Hasso is seriously awesome, it's much more so in a high end merit where you get more benefit from killing that much faster than you do trying to mitigate damage.

I remember reading about Ruke talking about doing that and thinking "man, never gonna get to do that" but I have with gear improvements and equally equipped/better equipped DD's + dual buffers, and it's great, at birds I just wind up saving TE for when I see a Flurry coming if it manages to get a WS off before it dies.

[FailureMidgard]

All that being said, the worse your gear, the less likely you are to tank to start with, the more likely you can afford to full-time Hasso. Which goes back to the fresh 75s/etc.

All that being said, I'm fine with buffing other options as well, I just think it should be sub abilities that are looked at, not main.

[Therin]

You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?

I'd rather see a change to /sam than to the 2h mechanics, as that is more likely the cause of the no-merit, subpar AHed war/sam outdmging others. And let's be serious here, as Ruke posted, Sam can sub drg for 5% haste in an ear-slot, and it beats out /war (yeayea, there's jumps and acc bonus also, but the big deal is the haste). If they lowered Hasso to 5% haste and 5 accuracy, it would -still- be the most used sub by 2h DD.

Absolutely. Do we have to explain this again?

WARs were meant to use Great Axes so don't give me "unfair" double axe bullshit (look at what they have higher skill in). MNKs can still parse equally to two-handers. NINs were NOT made to be fucking melee DDs in the same sense as SAMs, DRGs, and DRKs.

It's fair, stop complaining because your dual-wielder isn't top of the game anymore. If you're getting outparsed on WAR, get with the times and buy a Great Axe. If you're getting outparsed on MNK, well, you need to go get a Black Belt or Usukane. If you're a NIN, well then shut the fuck up because your job isn't to outparse two-handers in the first place.

Also, this was already debated about five times in this thread alone. I'm sorry for sounding like a dick in the newbie forum but clearly this one didn't read the thread.

[FailureMidgard]

You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?

I'd rather see a change to /sam than to the 2h mechanics, as that is more likely the cause of the no-merit, subpar AHed war/sam outdmging others. And let's be serious here, as Ruke posted, Sam can sub drg for 5% haste in an ear-slot, and it beats out /war (yeayea, there's jumps and acc bonus also, but the big deal is the haste). If they lowered Hasso to 5% haste and 5 accuracy, it would -still- be the most used sub by 2h DD.

Absolutely. Do we have to explain this again?

WARs were meant to use Great Axes so don't give me "unfair" double axe bullshit (look at what they have higher skill in). MNKs can still parse equally to two-handers. NINs were NOT made to be fucking melee DDs in the same sense as SAMs, DRGs, and DRKs.

It's fair, stop complaining because your dual-wielder isn't top of the game anymore. If you're getting outparsed on WAR, get with the times and buy a Great Axe. If you're getting outparsed on MNK, well, you need to go get a Black Belt or Usukane. If you're a NIN, well then shut the fuck up because your job isn't to outparse two-handers in the first place.

Also, this was already debated about five times in this thread alone. I'm sorry for sounding like a dick in the newbie forum but clearly this one didn't read the thread.

Woah dude, take a step back there. Not once did I "complain because my dual wielder isn't top of the game anymore." The only DD job I have is Samurai [edit: I could whm/nin it up~serious dual-wield DD]. So, perhaps you should reread the thread, or specifically my post, and comment based on what I said, not what you inferred.

That being said, thinking it over more, I agree, nerfing Hasso on sub is useless. It wouldn't change the "every 2h DD sub Sam" one bit. I still think there is a giant problem that /sam is the -only- sub.

Now that you understand that I am not complaining 1 bit about this, I will quote myself for you:
"You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?"

Okay, now that being said, let's compare /sam to other viable subs for 2h DD. Oh right, there are none. Yes, nerfing Hasso will not change that. There is still a problem here, and if you think this is "balanced", I don't think you have a clue of what balanced means.

I fully agree with the fact that pure DD jobs should be on near-equal footing - war, sam, drk, mnk, drg, rng. I also think that nin should not be DD at all, and could give a rat's ass about ridill wars. I do however, think that subs should be more versatile than they are.

And, if you really really want to personalize it at all, at least say I'm jealous that I can't drop to a 5hit build, get 60tp extra every 3minutes, AND get 10% haste, 10 acc, and 5 str from my sub (not to mention other added benefits like zanshin and seigan). I'm stuck subbing dragoon to lose an ear slot for 5% haste. That sounds balanced to me.

[shukuffxi]

2H DD should be able to wreck whatever mob they're facing, that's what they're for. I just think the inequality for 1H isn't what it should be.

THF's are getting a better better with their new JAs, their main job is hate control, and good THFs can still put out some good numbers, I think all they really "need" left is a bit more hate control, maybe something along the lines of a JA that flat out transfers an small % of Collaborator/Accomplice hate to a target.

NINs are pretty powerful as is, and they can do a bunch of stuff, and can use different subs to good use, but their mix of DD/Tank only works so well, :Ni enfeebles and crap aside, I think it's about time they got something ninja-esque that gives them a stronger edge. You don't need a NIN to voke your XP mobs, WARs can do that just fine. NINs make fine tanks, but as it stands now, PLD is just more sought after. They're like "second best, still really good, but..." in most cases.

BST, honestly I don't know what they need. They have great gear selection, and they've had improvements, but something is lacking, to give it real "oomph", be it stronger pets, or JAs to allow them to charm normally uncharmable mobs on higher timers or something.

BLU, it has so much versatility, but often so much useless versatility in most cases. It fits in, but it's just not where it should be I think. They can't SA/TA the best, they can't do the best DoT, but we can Head Butt, and Cure, and Flash, and pop out some decent damage. To me honestly, the biggest thing to help BLU would simply be a way to raise the melee/physical spell damage in some manner, be it gear with more +Blue Magic Skill, or something like taking 1/4th your total attack into consideration for physical spells, because let's face it, if you're 50/50 on melee for damage and physical spells, and you're getting 2x Minuet 2x March (or Madrigal/March), or Chaos, or SAM Roll, or WAR Roll, eating meat, any type of attack bonus you get is literally cut in half. I find that BLU only really shines in some smaller type events/BCs/missions, and of course soloing Imps (Though really, any solid melee + a healer can duo Imps to the tune of 8-10k/hr depending on pulls, without much trouble)

COR, well... Nothing. I'm pretty fucking ecstatic about CORs ability now. Our buffs are great, we have better control over them than earlier. In a zerg, my COR which is only decently geared at best, can help put out some good #s for a job you only invited for buffs, 1.6~1.8K Slug Shot x2-3 on stuff like DL, KV, is not shabby, not to mention Quick Draw abuse.

[Wolfknight]

You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?

I'd rather see a change to /sam than to the 2h mechanics, as that is more likely the cause of the no-merit, subpar AHed war/sam outdmging others. And let's be serious here, as Ruke posted, Sam can sub drg for 5% haste in an ear-slot, and it beats out /war (yeayea, there's jumps and acc bonus also, but the big deal is the haste). If they lowered Hasso to 5% haste and 5 accuracy, it would -still- be the most used sub by 2h DD.

Absolutely. Do we have to explain this again?

WARs were meant to use Great Axes so don't give me "unfair" double axe bullshit (look at what they have higher skill in). MNKs can still parse equally to two-handers. NINs were NOT made to be fucking melee DDs in the same sense as SAMs, DRGs, and DRKs.

It's fair, stop complaining because your dual-wielder isn't top of the game anymore. If you're getting outparsed on WAR, get with the times and buy a Great Axe. If you're getting outparsed on MNK, well, you need to go get a Black Belt or Usukane. If you're a NIN, well then shut the fuck up because your job isn't to outparse two-handers in the first place.

Also, this was already debated about five times in this thread alone. I'm sorry for sounding like a dick in the newbie forum but clearly this one didn't read the thread.

Woah dude, take a step back there. Not once did I "complain because my dual wielder isn't top of the game anymore." The only DD job I have is Samurai [edit: I could whm/nin it up~serious dual-wield DD]. So, perhaps you should reread the thread, or specifically my post, and comment based on what I said, not what you inferred.

That being said, thinking it over more, I agree, nerfing Hasso on sub is useless. It wouldn't change the "every 2h DD sub Sam" one bit. I still think there is a giant problem that /sam is the -only- sub.

Now that you understand that I am not complaining 1 bit about this, I will quote myself for you:
"You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?"

Okay, now that being said, let's compare /sam to other viable subs for 2h DD. Oh right, there are none. Yes, nerfing Hasso will not change that. There is still a problem here, and if you think this is "balanced", I don't think you have a clue of what balanced means.

I fully agree with the fact that pure DD jobs should be on near-equal footing - war, sam, drk, mnk, drg, rng. I also think that nin should not be DD at all, and could give a rat's ass about ridill wars. I do however, think that subs should be more versatile than they are.

And, if you really really want to personalize it at all, at least say I'm jealous that I can't drop to a 5hit build, get 60tp extra every 3minutes, AND get 10% haste, 10 acc, and 5 str from my sub (not to mention other added benefits like zanshin and seigan). I'm stuck subbing dragoon to lose an ear slot for 5% haste. That sounds balanced to me.

only sub for what war?, I still sub mage, war, or even thf sometimes on drg and I prefer /war for most DD stuff for DA and zerk, til I get askar body, and what about non-2 handers all they sub is nin so it's same on both sides really.

[Ahlah]

WARs were meant to use Great Axes so don't give me "unfair" double axe bullshit (look at what they have higher skill in). MNKs can still parse equally to two-handers. NINs were NOT made to be fucking melee DDs in the same sense as SAMs, DRGs, and DRKs.

It's fair, stop complaining because your dual-wielder isn't top of the game anymore. If you're getting outparsed on WAR, get with the times and buy a Great Axe. If you're getting outparsed on MNK, well, you need to go get a Black Belt or Usukane. If you're a NIN, well then shut the fuck up because your job isn't to outparse two-handers in the first place.

The whole thing about 2h weapon adjustment making melee jobs balanced is complete bullshit. In term of pure DD potential, 2h weapon completely trash 1h. I seriously don't understand what other proof is needed to convince you that 2h weapon is way too powerful after I posted the parse result.

I agree 2h melee needed adjustment but SE clearly overdid it (on purpose). You can argue that NIN is already a decent tank/solo job and WAR should be using Gaxe, but you can't really say that the whole system is balanced now since SAM/DRG/DRK deserve to be top tier DD jobs simply because they are pure damage dealers and don't have the solo abilities like NIN/THF/BLU/BST. Let's take a look at RNG, they are downgraded from the best DD job in this game to 2nd class melee job over the past 2 years. SE simply kicked them off the DD throne and replace them with 2h melee even though it costs much more to play RNG than any other 2h melee jobs. MNK is also badly affected but at least SE is going to give them something in the next update.

It's just part of SE's (evil) plan to keep players busy in this game, a lot of ppl will have left FFXI if RNG has never been nerfed and 2h weapons are still as weak as they used to be. There is only so much you can do for one job and ppl need new motivation to keep them going in this game.

I am not surprised if SE decide to give BST/PUP something really powerful few years down the line after ppl are done upgrading 2h melee jobs, and 2h melee can't complain because SE are upgrading other jobs instead of nerfing 2h weapons.

[Cream Soda]

You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?

I'd rather see a change to /sam than to the 2h mechanics, as that is more likely the cause of the no-merit, subpar AHed war/sam outdmging others. And let's be serious here, as Ruke posted, Sam can sub drg for 5% haste in an ear-slot, and it beats out /war (yeayea, there's jumps and acc bonus also, but the big deal is the haste). If they lowered Hasso to 5% haste and 5 accuracy, it would -still- be the most used sub by 2h DD.

Absolutely. Do we have to explain this again?

WARs were meant to use Great Axes so don't give me "unfair" double axe bullshit (look at what they have higher skill in). MNKs can still parse equally to two-handers. NINs were NOT made to be fucking melee DDs in the same sense as SAMs, DRGs, and DRKs.

It's fair, stop complaining because your dual-wielder isn't top of the game anymore. If you're getting outparsed on WAR, get with the times and buy a Great Axe. If you're getting outparsed on MNK, well, you need to go get a Black Belt or Usukane. If you're a NIN, well then shut the fuck up because your job isn't to outparse two-handers in the first place.

Also, this was already debated about five times in this thread alone. I'm sorry for sounding like a dick in the newbie forum but clearly this one didn't read the thread.

Woah dude, take a step back there. Not once did I "complain because my dual wielder isn't top of the game anymore." The only DD job I have is Samurai [edit: I could whm/nin it up~serious dual-wield DD]. So, perhaps you should reread the thread, or specifically my post, and comment based on what I said, not what you inferred.

That being said, thinking it over more, I agree, nerfing Hasso on sub is useless. It wouldn't change the "every 2h DD sub Sam" one bit. I still think there is a giant problem that /sam is the -only- sub.

Now that you understand that I am not complaining 1 bit about this, I will quote myself for you:
"You think it is balanced atm? No other sub even competes with /sam offensively currently, and on top of that it's 2nd to /nin for defensive purposes?"

Okay, now that being said, let's compare /sam to other viable subs for 2h DD. Oh right, there are none. Yes, nerfing Hasso will not change that. There is still a problem here, and if you think this is "balanced", I don't think you have a clue of what balanced means.

I fully agree with the fact that pure DD jobs should be on near-equal footing - war, sam, drk, mnk, drg, rng. I also think that nin should not be DD at all, and could give a rat's ass about ridill wars. I do however, think that subs should be more versatile than they are.

And, if you really really want to personalize it at all, at least say I'm jealous that I can't drop to a 5hit build, get 60tp extra every 3minutes, AND get 10% haste, 10 acc, and 5 str from my sub (not to mention other added benefits like zanshin and seigan). I'm stuck subbing dragoon to lose an ear slot for 5% haste. That sounds balanced to me.

only sub for what war?, I still sub mage, war, or even thf sometimes on drg and I prefer /war for most DD stuff for DA and zerk, til I get askar body, and what about non-2 handers all they sub is nin so it's same on both sides really.

I'd rather not sub nin, but I don't get a choice in the matter (non 2hander speaking)

[Charismatic]

WARs were meant to use Great Axes so don't give me "unfair" double axe bullshit (look at what they have higher skill in). MNKs can still parse equally to two-handers. NINs were NOT made to be fucking melee DDs in the same sense as SAMs, DRGs, and DRKs.

It's fair, stop complaining because your dual-wielder isn't top of the game anymore. If you're getting outparsed on WAR, get with the times and buy a Great Axe. If you're getting outparsed on MNK, well, you need to go get a Black Belt or Usukane. If you're a NIN, well then shut the fuck up because your job isn't to outparse two-handers in the first place.

The whole thing about 2h weapon adjustment making melee jobs balanced is complete bullshit. In term of pure DD potential, 2h weapon completely trash 1h. I seriously don't understand what other proof is needed to convince you that 2h weapon is way too powerful after I posted the parse result.

I agree 2h melee needed adjustment but SE clearly overdid it (on purpose). You can argue that NIN is already a decent tank/solo job and WAR should be using Gaxe, but you can't really say that the whole system is balanced now since SAM/DRG/DRK deserve to be top tier DD jobs simply because they are pure damage dealers and don't have the solo abilities like NIN/THF/BLU/BST. Let's take a look at RNG, they are downgraded from the best DD job in this game to 2nd class melee job over the past 2 years. SE simply kicked them off the DD throne and replace them with 2h melee even though it costs much more to play RNG than any other 2h melee jobs. MNK is also badly affected but at least SE is going to give them something in the next update.

It's just part of SE's (evil) plan to keep players busy in this game, a lot of ppl will have left FFXI if RNG has never been nerfed and 2h weapons are still as weak as they used to be. There is only so much you can do for one job and ppl need new motivation to keep them going in this game.

I am not surprised if SE decide to give BST/PUP something really powerful few years down the line after ppl are done upgrading 2h melee jobs, and 2h melee can't complain because SE are upgrading other jobs instead of nerfing 2h weapons.

Actually, you could if not for the fact that DRG is one of the best solo jobs in the game...

[Ahlah]

Actually, you could if not for the fact that DRG is one of the best solo jobs in the game...

Actually you are right, and ppl still think BST don't deserve to be a good DD job?

[Wolfknight]

Actually, you could if not for the fact that DRG is one of the best solo jobs in the game...

Actually you are right, and ppl still think BST don't deserve to be a good DD job?

except bst is good solo from start where as drg solo really sucks til 60, I mean you can do it w/o AF helm but isn't nearly as save, and bst can solo much tougher things than drg generally.

[Liquidedust]

Actually, you could if not for the fact that DRG is one of the best solo jobs in the game...

Actually you are right, and ppl still think BST don't deserve to be a good DD job?

TBH I hardly see BST as a true DD job, for me it is more of a swiss army knife utility job or an army of pets job. If I want to DD I just go on my WAR or SAM not my BST (LS events I do on BST or BRD though, but I am in a SMN/BST pet ls so).

[Charismatic]

Actually, you could if not for the fact that DRG is one of the best solo jobs in the game...

Actually you are right, and ppl still think BST don't deserve to be a good DD job?

except bst is good solo from start where as drg solo really sucks til 60, I mean you can do it w/o AF helm but isn't nearly as save, and bst can solo much tougher things than drg generally.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about do you?
DRG soloing pre60 isn't that bad at all.

Slap on /BLU and keep cocoon up and eat meat, you'll be safe and kill fast as fuck.
(For xping anyway)

[Ahlah]

Pre-leave BST is notoriously difficult to play, BLM/RDM/BLU post lv24 can easily solo for xp way better than BST.

If BST is not a DD what's the purpose of having a BST in party play? THF at least has hate control abilities and Feint, DRG has Angon, BLU has whole arrays of unique aoe sleep/stun/debuff spells. BST has zero party friendly JA except lol Ferral Howl and Killer Instinct which are both meritable JAs. Widescan? Crowd control? Snarl has the potential but I doubt if ppl are actually know how to put it to good use. Even PUP have more to offer than BST in endgame activities.

2 years ago no1 believe DRG will ever outdamage ridill WAR. 2h melee never gave up asking for job adjustment/better gear and now their wishes are granted. The saddest thing about BST is ppl who play the job don't even bother to ask, every1 else just assume BST should always be a solo job and hence do not deserve a place in endgame activities.

[Liquidedust]

Pre-leave BST is notoriously difficult to play, BLM/RDM/BLU post lv24 can easily solo for xp way better than BST.

If BST is not a DD what's the purpose of having a BST in party play? THF at least has hate control abilities and Feint, DRG has Angon, BLU has whole arrays of unique aoe sleep/stun/debuff spells. BST has zero party friendly JA except lol Ferral Howl and Killer Instinct which are both meritable JAs. Widescan? Crowd control? Snarl has the potential but I doubt if ppl are actually know how to put it to good use. Even PUP have more to offer than BST in endgame activities.

2 years ago no1 believe DRG will ever outdamage ridill WAR. 2h melee never gave up asking for job adjustment/better gear and now their wishes are granted. The saddest thing about BST is ppl who play the job don't even bother to ask, every1 else just assume BST should always be a solo job and hence do not deserve a place in endgame activities.

UHmmm adding anything to BST would be pretty overpowered as-is, I am in a BST+SMN LS and we pretty much can petburn anything short of AV and some jailers with pets alone (and certain things that needs to be zerged such King Vinnie).

We can take down:

• Jorm np done Jorm plenty of times[/*:mpkjx240]
• Vrtra well we tried it but got too laggy since we had too many people here but we're going to try it again when we have a better strat for it (got it to 64% before someone CFH'd it)[/*:mpkjx240]
• Tiamat would be a walk in the park if we could actually get a claim on her[/*:mpkjx240]
• All gods in sky, cept Kirin, is jugburnable in less then 20 mins (sub-10 min kills with a few SMNs thrown in as well)[/*:mpkjx240]
• Kirin takes 30-60 mins for us (depending on how many SMNs we have)[/*:mpkjx240]
• We're doing Jailers in sky with no real issues (cept for when we created strategies)[/*:mpkjx240]

If anything we find the increase in cat2 merits pure joy since we will be able to use Funguar jugs more easily then just Lars and lolCC

BST has a place in end-game already people in general just don't see it, but then again I might have a diff viewpoint then the general public since I am in a pet LS.

[Starr]

In a pet LS why the fuck would anyone need to engage it? In response to CFH.