2H vs 1H question

[Trime]

People keep saying nin cannot keep up with 2h DDs in merit parties, I find this odd because since 2h god mode was slightly nerfed I have only been outparsed a handful of times. I can honestly say I have never been outparsed by a mnk of any sort, granted none of these have been full usukane types, but lots of standard togi/BB 22-25% haste mnks (and ofcourse /nin).

I recently outparsed an E body war/sam and E body drk/sam, they may both have just been horrible players but I don't think so.

My gear is above average (Speed belt and Usukane feet) but its not as if I have no room for improvement on it short of relic. I have parsed every single worthwhile merit party I have been in for over a year so I am aware of what the 2h buff did for the jobs it affected.

All recorded parses were with 2brds doing march x2 minuet x2 (occasionally with 1 madrigal instead or second minuet) and sole sushi.

Short of a war/sam who really knows what he is doing I am pretty happy with the balance we have now.

[Liquidedust]

In a pet LS why the fuck would anyone need to engage it? In response to CFH.

someone typed "/h" instead of "/heal" by mistake while having Vrtra targetted and was still in ally.

[Yutuyu]

It might be true that /sam people can outdamage the 1 handing /nin crowd, but what isn't realized is that they're taking a ton more damage in the process. I'd like to see someone parse 1 handers vs. 2 handers not just on damage done but damage taken. Yes, it does matter.

[Liquidedust]

It might be true that /sam people can outdamage the 1 handing /nin crowd, but what isn't realized is that they're taking a ton more damage in the process. I'd like to see someone parse 1 handers vs. 2 handers not just on damage done but damage taken. Yes, it does matter.

On average for me on WAR/SAM vs. WAR/NIN when I parse myself the tradeoff is about this:

WAR/SAM is around 35-50% more damage dealt and 0-40% more damage taken compared to WAR/NIN for me. If you play Seigan fulltime at birds there is basically no difference between /NIN or /SAM in damage taken for me, if I alternate between Seigan/Hasso at birds you take about 10% more damage, and finally if I fulltime it you take around 40% more damage. (everything in comparison to /NIN)

Camps that are most annoying are Mamools really (Puk AoEs and Firespit mainly), but since you kill so much faster it is rare to see more then one TP move per mob you kill (including Skoffins).

[FailureMidgard]

It might be true that /sam people can outdamage the 1 handing /nin crowd, but what isn't realized is that they're taking a ton more damage in the process. I'd like to see someone parse 1 handers vs. 2 handers not just on damage done but damage taken. Yes, it does matter.

There's also something to be said for the fact that if you do less damage, you inherently take less. I wouldn't praise that too much. That being said, it's also possible for 2 people to do the same damage, and 1 take more because the 2nd is a dragoon and high/super jumps hate onto others (which accomplishes nothing as far as party damage taken).

The more important stat is attacks mitigated. Meaning, if you can't pull hate, it's useless. And if you drop hate, it's useless. Dropping hate is good when you have a real tank only.

[azagarth]

i think the 2h update was good in sense it put long awaited jobs at top where they should be; however, this greatly gimped other jobs unintentionally.

i think the drg parse is clear evidence that it was overdone a bit. the mnk SUB war and was taken by 4% and he had idealy above average gear. mnk has no endgame utility outside of tanking salvage, the rest all get to melee any endgame mob. Mnk should be #1-2 dd always, thats all they get. Now though they are what #5? when you need only 3 dds in a party thats just unfair to them.

i do agree that drk sam war should be great dds, but atm they trump rng mnks and idk any other real dd only jobs to include. Thing is the balance happened for 3 jobs and gimped a few other by comparison.

my main whine is how much mnk got kicked to the curb, ya we can deal alot of dmg, but thats ALL we ever get to do and now we do it half ass in comparison.

get ruke, lhexh, and thier new apoc drk to parse with thier relic h2h mnk, i know there 3-4 on seraph now i think? that would ultimately show just how gimply mnk has become, and these would be jobs at thier peak. ruke if you could do this and read this would be awesome to do and show the differences.

i have thought for years now that mnk should have got a 3rd eye things, makes sense to me with the whole job. if they gave mnk seigan type move, exact replica of sams but diff name so they could sub war full time i could see it balancing a bit more, still be nice to maybe add one more MA and that would balance us with the top 3 atm. this type of change would not affect other jobs who ultimately do not need it and would give mnk that up they desperately need.

oh give pup some stuff too ;D they need it badly.

[Cream Soda]

i think the 2h update was good in sense it put long awaited jobs at top where they should be; however, this greatly gimped other jobs unintentionally.

i think the drg parse is clear evidence that it was overdone a bit. the mnk SUB war and was taken by 4% and he had idealy above average gear. mnk has no endgame utility outside of tanking salvage, the rest all get to melee any endgame mob. Mnk should be #1-2 dd always, thats all they get. Now though they are what #5? when you need only 3 dds in a party thats just unfair to them.

i do agree that drk sam war should be great dds, but atm they trump rng mnks and idk any other real dd only jobs to include. Thing is the balance happened for 3 jobs and gimped a few other by comparison.

my main whine is how much mnk got kicked to the curb, ya we can deal alot of dmg, but thats ALL we ever get to do and now we do it half ass in comparison.

get ruke, lhexh, and thier new apoc drk to parse with thier relic h2h mnk, i know there 3-4 on seraph now i think? that would ultimately show just how gimply mnk has become, and these would be jobs at thier peak. ruke if you could do this and read this would be awesome to do and show the differences.

i have thought for years now that mnk should have got a 3rd eye things, makes sense to me with the whole job. if they gave mnk seigan type move, exact replica of sams but diff name so they could sub war full time i could see it balancing a bit more, still be nice to maybe add one more MA and that would balance us with the top 3 atm. this type of change would not affect other jobs who ultimately do not need it and would give mnk that up they desperately need.

oh give pup some stuff too ;D they need it badly.

I think a better bet would be to find a relic 2hander on asura and put him up vs Aurik.

[Ahlah]

UHmmm adding anything to BST would be pretty overpowered as-is, I am in a BST+SMN LS and we pretty much can petburn anything short of AV and some jailers with pets alone (and certain things that needs to be zerged such King Vinnie).

BST alliance is the main reason why SE refuse to boost our jugpet. As BST our main source of damage should come from the pet but there is no easy way to boost their performance without overpowering BST alliance. For example, one effortless way to boost BST performance in merit party is to let BST choose the TP move of their jugpet, which will give Amigo Sabotender the chance to spam 1000 needles but also make BST alliance the craziest killing machine, 18 Amigo + Zoolater Hat will instantly remove 18k damage from any HNM.

The question is should all BST be in a pet LS? There are still tons of stuffs that can't be pet burned - Salvage, Einherjar, HNM that rage, Ouryu/Bv2 etc.

It's better to improve BST melee damage instead of making jugpet stronger. BST will get the place they deserve in endgame activities without overpowering BST alliance.

Edit: actually SE can add a new JA which when activated will greatly enhance attack and acc but lower the defense of BST jugpet, something similar to counterstance/berserk.

[Tsuko_Asura]

It might be true that /sam people can outdamage the 1 handing /nin crowd, but what isn't realized is that they're taking a ton more damage in the process. I'd like to see someone parse 1 handers vs. 2 handers not just on damage done but damage taken. Yes, it does matter.

Bull.Shit.

Anyone who has trouble maintaining a party with no "tank", and three DD with nothing to protect them but Seigen, simply cannot handle their job. If I can do it at level 51, you should be embarrassed to be having trouble doing it at level 75.

[Therin]

It might be true that /sam people can outdamage the 1 handing /nin crowd, but what isn't realized is that they're taking a ton more damage in the process. I'd like to see someone parse 1 handers vs. 2 handers not just on damage done but damage taken. Yes, it does matter.

Bull.Shit.

Anyone who has trouble maintaining a party with no "tank", and three DD with nothing to protect them but Seigen, simply cannot handle their job. If I can do it at level 51, you should be embarrassed to be having trouble doing it at level 75.

Truth.