Vatican says aliens could exist

[Neosutra]

Annoying theists is a bad thing?

And your half right (this is going no where and believe it or not I dont like insulting your or woozie, so I apologize for that).

I do find it shocking though how offended some people can get when their beliefs are "unjustifiably" questioned. As for why I focused on Woozie, it is because I take a special interest in theist physicist, because sometimes they tend to have some more creative answers for their belief rather than the standard responses. I know a quantum physicist friend that is quite brilliant and justifies his belief in god through symmetry in specific physical relationships. While I dont agree with his conclusions, it is refreshing to get more than the "i seperate the two, and block our scientific contradictions..". Then again, his "symmetric" philosopy only developed because he entered in as a theist and reformatted his perspective to rationalize his views, rather than questioning them.. so perhaps there is no answer that would satisfy me.

But that doesnt restrain me from asking the question, regardless of if I like the answer.

Edit: To Takeno

While I support your premis that any god(s) that would hamper the increase of human knowledge is a fraud, we still have to realize that as a species there are borders we cannot cross, as the sacrifice/reward are not worth it (i.e. nazi germany using jews to test biological weapons).

[Blarg]

Umm, no one has answered my question/statement

"If god is almighty then why did he give us the brains and capabilities to do stem cell research, etc..? I believe that if it's humanly possible then I think it should be explored"

Please destroy me

That's not a very good argument. Capability to do something doesn't make it right. If you believe in a soul and when life begins to be within the areas where stem cell research is done then you should think it is an immoral act.

[Takeno]

Umm, no one has answered my question/statement

"If god is almighty then why did he give us the brains and capabilities to do stem cell research, etc..? I believe that if it's humanly possible then I think it should be explored"

Please destroy me

That's not a very good argument. Capability to do something doesn't make it right. If you believe in a soul and when life begins to be within the areas where stem cell research is done then you should think it is an immoral act.

What I'm just trying to say is: how come god doesnt restrict us? how come god doesnt guide us in the right direction? how come god allows us to separate in different religiions when there is only one truth?

[Kuya]

Umm, no one has answered my question/statement

"If god is almighty then why did he give us the brains and capabilities to do stem cell research, etc..? I believe that if it's humanly possible then I think it should be explored"

Please destroy me

That's not a very good argument. Capability to do something doesn't make it right. If you believe in a soul and when life begins to be within the areas where stem cell research is done then you should think it is an immoral act.

What I'm just trying to say is: how come god doesnt restrict us? how come god doesnt guide us in the right direction? how come god allows us to separate in different religiions when there is only one truth?

A theist would say: because God promotes freewill, however the idea that God punishes you for exercising your freewill is contradictory as what happends in life should be enough reward or punishment for your decisions.

[Blarg]

Umm, no one has answered my question/statement

"If god is almighty then why did he give us the brains and capabilities to do stem cell research, etc..? I believe that if it's humanly possible then I think it should be explored"

Please destroy me

That's not a very good argument. Capability to do something doesn't make it right. If you believe in a soul and when life begins to be within the areas where stem cell research is done then you should think it is an immoral act.

What I'm just trying to say is: how come god doesnt restrict us? how come god doesnt guide us in the right direction? how come god allows us to separate in different religiions when there is only one truth?

The supposed 'free will'. Frankly I would do without free will if it meant a certain trip to heaven for eternity. Those questions of course are clear when the answer is there is no god.

[Takeno]

Umm, no one has answered my question/statement

"If god is almighty then why did he give us the brains and capabilities to do stem cell research, etc..? I believe that if it's humanly possible then I think it should be explored"

Please destroy me

That's not a very good argument. Capability to do something doesn't make it right. If you believe in a soul and when life begins to be within the areas where stem cell research is done then you should think it is an immoral act.

What I'm just trying to say is: how come god doesnt restrict us? how come god doesnt guide us in the right direction? how come god allows us to separate in different religiions when there is only one truth?

A theist would say: because God promotes freewill, however the idea that God punishes you for exercising your freewill is contradictory as what happends in life should be enough reward or punishment for your decisions.

Yeah, thasts why I'm not a theist

[Senoska]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

[Neosutra]

Had a fun discussion on this a while back:

Do angels have free will (biblicly speaking, not asserting angels are real Q.Q). I always thought it ironic that most christians say humans were blessed with the unique gift of free will, while angels were free enough to rebel against the gods(even though the whole satan/rebellion didnt really come into the stories till far after the old testimant.. ).

And would you rebel against something that you knew was omnipotent? So either they knew he/she/it wasnt omnipotent, they somehow didnt know..., or the whole story is poorly thought out. (And to be honest ive found the rebellion/satan theology to be the most poorly developed/justified aspect of christian mythos, as almost all of these stories come from texts written far far after the suggested time the author was supposed to write it.)

[Kaylia]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

Depend how you define God's omniscience. Both could works if he isn't omniscients in time.

[Neosutra]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

Depend how you define God's omniscience. Both could works if he isn't omniscients in time.

wut

[Blarg]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

Depend how you define God's omniscience. Both could works if he isn't omniscients in time.

Omnipresent means present everywhere last I heard. Being so omni everything makes more problems than it solves I think.

[Kaylia]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

Depend how you define God's omniscience. Both could works if he isn't omniscients in time.

wut

Senoska is saying free will can't coexist with something omniscient, I'm saying it can exist as long being omniscient doesn't involve knowing the future.

[Blarg]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

Depend how you define God's omniscience. Both could works if he isn't omniscients in time.

wut

Senoska is saying free will can't coexist with something omniscient, I'm saying it can exist as long omniscient doesn't involve time (ie: knowing the future)

Then that isn't omniscient.

[Kaylia]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

Depend how you define God's omniscience. Both could works if he isn't omniscients in time.

wut

Senoska is saying free will can't coexist with something omniscient, I'm saying it can exist as long omniscient doesn't involve time (ie: knowing the future)

Then that isn't omniscient.

It's still omniscient.

Definition:
having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

[Blarg]

[quote=Kaylia]

Free will is a joke and cannot exist with omniscients.

Depend how you define God's omniscience. Both could works if he isn't omniscients in time.

wut

Senoska is saying free will can't coexist with something omniscient, I'm saying it can exist as long omniscient doesn't involve time (ie: knowing the future)

Then that isn't omniscient.

It's still omniscient.

Definition:
having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.[/quote:1tpir9yo]

But the limit is... not knowing the future? NO LIMITS, none, not even time.

[Kaylia]

But the limit is... not knowing the future? NO LIMITS, none, not even time.

How many number is there between 0 and 1? An infinity. Same thing can apply to this problem when you compare time to space. An infinite knowledge within a finite set is still infinite.

You can have a knowledge limited to all things in their present state, and call it "infinite knowledge". You can argue it's not if you want, but you're the one forcing the contradiction here. The definition alone isn't enough to say there is a one.


The way I understand it, Bible preaches about a determinisn in the nature (ie: predictable by God), but the soul/mind can only be read in its present state.

[Blarg]

I wouldn't call that true omniscience then since its essentially 'I know everything except this and this and this'. I could know everything about toothpicks but I wouldn't call myself omniscient.

There should be some sort of biblical quote that says if god knows what hasn't come to pass yet, when I google it I just find things saying how omniscience is contradictory and whatnot.

[Senoska]

You're not making sense.

[Blarg]

You're not making sense.

me?

[Senoska]

You're not making sense.

me?

no, you get it. kaylia doesn't.