great news about gas prices!

[Thelam]

so last year gas was $65 a barrel and $3 at the pump
this year its $125 barrel and $3.65 at the pump

i don't get it shouldn't gas be around $6 a gallon now.

Or gas should've been $1.90 back then.

I'm sure there's some complex economic juju at work, since you'd see Europeans pipe in about finally paying close to what they've had to for ages, but I personally can't shake the stigma that it's too convenient our gas costs SKYROCKET the 8 years an oil man and his oil man VP are in the White House.

All I know is I'll if when a Democrat comes out of the '08 election here the winner, by this time next year we'd be back to like $1.70 a gallon before Bush took charge. Sure, we should continue to invest in hybrid and alternative fuel methods, but gas now is having a serious trickle down effect on our economy. A lot of states could levy to raise minimum wages again another buck or 2, but that won't help when gas is $5 a gallon at this rate.

The drawback to having a higher minimum wage is more companies are going to bring their buisness into other countries where their minimum wage isn't higher then 7.15 an hour, factories in asia have people workign for like 10,15c an hour, working about the same or harder then the people in american factories making like 20$ an hour, as a buisness man, if the US raised the minimum wage a dollar or more, I'd move my buisness overseas.

[arus2001]

I figure in those cases, tax breaks to those who keep work stateside while imposing higher tariffs and taxes upon those who outsource and ferry goods back to the states would probably be the way to go. Unfortunately, patriotism doesn't always equate to financial sense, and those who only care about the dollar would probably just move out of the country and commence their outsourcing from somewhere else. Though, I haven't the slightest idea how other countries think about outsourcing and the like, nor how it affects them.

Either way, I'm not in a particularly good position. Rural area, roads are bad, jobs are few with many moving out, and public transportation is non-existent. Moving isn't an option when you can't afford it or replace the cost of gas with that of expensive housing in a more urban setting. Banks are hesitant to dole out loans and I couldn't get approved for tolerable monthly payments back when I tried to shop for a new car even though my credit's fine.

[pohibaba]

I figure in those cases, tax breaks to those who keep work stateside while imposing higher tariffs and taxes upon those who outsource and ferry goods back to the states would probably be the way to go.

So we should force companies to pay workers more than they're worth, then we'll basically make it illegal for them to move anywhere else. Why do we hate production so much?

[arus2001]

I figure in those cases, tax breaks to those who keep work stateside while imposing higher tariffs and taxes upon those who outsource and ferry goods back to the states would probably be the way to go.

So we should force companies to pay workers more than they're worth, then we'll basically make it illegal for them to move anywhere else. Why do we hate production so much?

If Americans aren't making money, they obviously aren't spending it. This kinda perpetuates the doldrums of economic woes, no?

Money makes the world go round, but patriotism is also a national force. If it weren't, we'd just be the people of Earth instead of Americans, Japanese, Italian, etc.. If you want American money, don't fuck over Americans. Partly why we're here now is because the greed of some looks to cut whatever corners possible in pursuit of a fatter piggy bank. I understand the logic, truly, but how many of us have had a meaningful conversation with "Ricky" in India when it comes time to talk to him, as an example?

Worth is very subjective, and one's economic standing can be screwed by something as simple as the concept of bad luck. Can try hard, scrape and claw, bust your ass, and in comes the pink slip. Why? Because "Ricky" will do your job for pennies. Good for him. Good for NamelessCorp. Tell "Ricky" he could be worth x times more here, you know, educate him beyond reading cue cards, and maybe he'd come to pursue the proverbial American Dream, thus keeping things internally circulating. Lord knows all those illegal Mexicans are doing it.

[Gulkeeva]

so last year gas was $65 a barrel and $3 at the pump
this year its $125 barrel and $3.65 at the pump

i don't get it shouldn't gas be around $6 a gallon now.

Or gas should've been $1.90 back then.

I'm sure there's some complex economic juju at work, since you'd see Europeans pipe in about finally paying close to what they've had to for ages, but I personally can't shake the stigma that it's too convenient our gas costs SKYROCKET the 8 years an oil man and his oil man VP are in the White House.

All I know is I'll if when a Democrat comes out of the '08 election here the winner, by this time next year we'd be back to like $1.70 a gallon before Bush took charge. Sure, we should continue to invest in hybrid and alternative fuel methods, but gas now is having a serious trickle down effect on our economy. A lot of states could levy to raise minimum wages again another buck or 2, but that won't help when gas is $5 a gallon at this rate.

Gas where I live back over a year ago was about $1.50ish its now 3.67 ;/

If Americans aren't making money, they obviously aren't spending it. This kinda perpetuates the doldrums of economic woes, no?

Americans make enough most do, they just don't know how to save it, like my friend at work he says he dosne't make enough but he does about $500 a week. See him buying fast food daily, buying PS3/Xboxgame a week, etc etc. I guess some people just see it as a normal expense to just buy dam near every random thing they see and relate it to every day cost so when they run out they just presume they don't make enough ;/

[dude]

We invaded the wrong damn country.

[Beckwin]

I figure in those cases, tax breaks to those who keep work stateside while imposing higher tariffs and taxes upon those who outsource and ferry goods back to the states would probably be the way to go.

So we should force companies to pay workers more than they're worth, then we'll basically make it illegal for them to move anywhere else. Why do we hate production so much?

because you're a better human being if you value other humans over producing things.

stop being a shitty libertarian.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I figure in those cases, tax breaks to those who keep work stateside while imposing higher tariffs and taxes upon those who outsource and ferry goods back to the states would probably be the way to go.

So we should force companies to pay workers more than they're worth, then we'll basically make it illegal for them to move anywhere else. Why do we hate production so much?

because you're a better human being if you value other humans over producing things.

stop being a shitty libertarian.

Results > intentions.

[Richybear]

It's roughly $5 a gallon here (give or take) in Alberta, where our Oil revenues were in the billions last year. (well, many, many years running now) It's fucking ridiculous. 10 years ago I remember when people bitched when it hit 45 cents a litre for gas, and now we're lucky if we ever see it dip below $1.23 or so. Calling for about $2 a litre by next year as their estimate, which puts it around $8 a gallon. Yay!

[Deejay]

I figure in those cases, tax breaks to those who keep work stateside while imposing higher tariffs and taxes upon those who outsource and ferry goods back to the states would probably be the way to go.

So we should force companies to pay workers more than they're worth, then we'll basically make it illegal for them to move anywhere else. Why do we hate production so much?

because you're a better human being if you value other humans over producing things.

stop being a shitty libertarian.

Results > intentions.

So getting screwed out of jobs due to outsourcing is okay as long as companies intended on screwing said people over?

[Senji]

Because minimum wage worker means they work in a factory, when in fact all the factory jobs I know of are paying 2-3 times minimum wage to start people anyways.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I figure in those cases, tax breaks to those who keep work stateside while imposing higher tariffs and taxes upon those who outsource and ferry goods back to the states would probably be the way to go.

So we should force companies to pay workers more than they're worth, then we'll basically make it illegal for them to move anywhere else. Why do we hate production so much?

because you're a better human being if you value other humans over producing things.

stop being a shitty libertarian.

Results > intentions.

So getting screwed out of jobs due to outsourcing is okay as long as companies intended on screwing said people over?

The results of higher tariffs and taxes on those who outsource should be more important than your intentions because you're not really protecting Americans if you do that.

[Exoduso]

Up to 4.35 for Premium. -_-

[Midnitelouie]

Well, if this is any indication:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...er=commodities

We hit $133.21 per barrel today... And the report states that it's very likely that we're looking at $150~$200 before year's end. That would be in the $5~$6 per gallon.

Funniest part of the whole article?

U.S. oil-company executives told Congress oil prices should be between $35 and $90 a barrel. Representatives of the five largest publicly traded oil companies appeared before the Senate Judiciary Committee to testify on record energy prices. Appearing today were representatives of BP Plc, ConocoPhillips, Chevron Corp., Exxon Mobil Corp. and Royal Dutch Shell Plc.

(ie, "Yeah, gas prices shouldn't be so high....but hey, we're not complaining. Have you seen my new mistress sitting in that Ferrari over there?")

[Gwynplaine]

"Yeah, gas prices shouldn't be so high....but hey, we're not complaining. Have you seen my new mistress sitting in that Ferrari over there?")

All right you know what, enough is enough. Do you understand the premise of what you're so snidely deriding? If, as you seem to be suggesting, making a lot of money is contemptible then why stop with oil? The CEOs of Google make a lot of money, aren't they just as contemptible? Should everyone be forced to have a limit to how much they make? How much do YOU make? You seem to have a PC and presumably pay for internet and video games right? And that's not a "need" like food, and water, and oil so you can probably give up some of your money to give to poor children in starving countries right? Or is it only subject to executives in "big" industry. Whatever this capricious, intangible measurement stick of being "big" means.

Quite simply, there is more demand for gas than ever, now that countries like China and India are becoming industrialized. If supply does not increase proportionately, price increases. But of course that's not satisfying is it. You can't sneer and throw tomatoes at the economics. Executives make a much more sexy villain, and are an easier scapegoat for some peoples emotions.

Americans have enjoyed such an excellent quality of life that many forget what makes it possible. They've grown complacent and now expect it as the given standard. Gas became increasingly cheaper for a while. But there is no such thing as a right to cheap gas. You wouldn't know it by the way people act however. Every time there is a great fluctuation in prices (for any product that is "needed), people gasp and run whining to the government to force it to be otherwise. Decades of increasing regulation upon the oil industry, and more recently the political factors in the middle east combined with environmentalism have all descended to bring American oil production to a standstill. There hasn't been a single major refinery built in 32 years.

There is one refinery I know of slated to be built in the U.S. which is a plant in Yuma. It began seeking approval to be built and for permits in something like 2004 iirc. It is expected to be completed in 2012... An 8 year period. And the plant is still subject to cancellation or having its permits revoked or citizens attempting to take legal action or any number of capricious things that could make millions of dollars invested and time spent worthless. With this kind of financial uncertainty, the reason for lack of new refinery's is clear to me. Everyone wants cheap oil, BUT it is vastly unpopular to want the production to make it. Witness the public outcry against actually attempting to abide by the law and build a new plant. "Not in my backyard!" people declare, even if that backyard happens to be the company's own land located 40 miles out of town in a desert.

Those people got exactly what they asked for, and now you are experiencing the results. If any of you hope to see cheap oil again within the coming years, it's in your interest to advocate elimination of the laws strangling new oil production. And also to outgrow the childish reaction of repeatably running to government to fix things, despite their obvious and proven ineptitude.

[arus2001]

If it boils down to oil bigwigs deliberately strangling supply while said supply is still plentiful, then yeah, we've got every right to bitch. It's not like people don't understand that fossil fuels are finite and sometime in the future they'll be gone if we don't convert to alternative means, but those future possibilities don't do us a whole hell of a lot of good right now, a week from now, or probably even a year or two from now. They're being irresponsible distributors of a needed, virtually monopolized product. I find myself reminded of businesses getting in trouble for gouging during Katrina not because they were short on product, but knew some people would pay out of desperation.

If it was a matter of these oil fields being under siege by terrorists and whatnot, surely an arrangement could be made for defense in exchange for cheaper barrels. If it is a matter of manpower to operate, then surely we or the world could also provide. Financial relief for people is every bit as important as sending a small group of soldiers and support to the site of a natural disaster. Only in this case, homes slowly crumble from the inside instead of being blown away, washed three blocks down the road, buried in a pile of rock and mud, or burned to ashes. The tragedy is we can't see it happening until it's too late and you or your neighbors are force to relocate or worse.

Last I checked, Google isn't directly responsible for gas rising a dollar in the past few months, food going up in kind, and the resulting sacrifices myself and others have made in order to just get by. We can live without the internet and its hastened transit of intangible, often useless information in regards to our daily lives or the fleeting entertainment it offers. We can't live without the physical benefits of gas transporting goods to people or people to work. Life isn't about to suddenly go back in time a century to accommodate horse-drawn buggies. It'd be like insisting we'd have mass-produced solar powered cars tomorrow.

[pohibaba]

If it boils down to oil bigwigs deliberately strangling supply while said supply is still plentiful, then yeah, we've got every right to bitch. It's not like people don't understand that fossil fuels are finite and sometime in the future they'll be gone if we don't convert to alternative means, but those future possibilities don't do us a whole hell of a lot of good right now, a week from now, or probably even a year or two from now. They're being irresponsible distributors of a needed, virtually monopolized product.

OK, I'll agree with you, you have the right to bitch. That's about as far as your rights go. You don't have a right to seize the oil company's property. You don't have a right to force them to lower their prices. You don't have a right to refuse them from selling their property either.

No one really cares what your opinion of the gas "crisis" is. No one really cares that you believe the oil companies are evil because they dare make a profit. How much profit is too much? What would you force the price to be? $100 a barrel? $50 a barrel? Are you going to allow them to make any profit? Just enough profit to pay their workers? Just enough to pay their mortgages? Oh, I guess you're learning what every socialist government in the history of the world has discovered. It is impossible to plan an economy.

I find myself reminded of businesses getting in trouble for gouging during Katrina not because they were short on product, but knew some people would pay out of desperation.

Yeah, and that was wrong, too.

Last I checked, Google isn't directly responsible for gas rising a dollar in the past few months, food going up in kind, and the resulting sacrifices myself and others have made in order to just get by. We can live without the internet and its hastened transit of intangible, often useless information in regards to our daily lives or the fleeting entertainment it offers. We can't live without the physical benefits of gas transporting goods to people or people to work. Life isn't about to suddenly go back in time a century to accommodate horse-drawn buggies. It'd be like insisting we'd have mass-produced solar powered cars tomorrow.

Are you really this stupid? Do you honestly think that the oil companies are just going to keep gouging us whether or not we're willing to pay it or not? The oil companies are making record profits because we are willing to give them our money. The moment we aren't, the moment it becomes more efficient to begin using something else, we will. That's simply how economics works. There's a book that I'd like you to read, because I'm sure you haven't heard of it yet.

[arus2001]

Trust me, if I had an alternative to gas, I'd use it. Myself, and countless others. Walking 50+ miles one way to get to work is out, let alone the 100+ round trip. Cupping my ears and going, "La La La, Big Oil has every right to anally rape me~" won't change that reality. If I choose to speak with my wallet and not buy, suddenly I can't get to work, and suddenly I'm unemployed. Lemme know when moral victories pay the bills, because I don't give a shit what book you wanna throw at me. At least I'm not sitting back spawning kids in a trailer park just to get additional welfare benefits without even trying to positively contribute to the economy.

Trust me, I would love to have born in a family where I could've rode daddy's coattails to college, snagged full scholarships, and otherwise went to class on a perpetual hangover. Instead, my folks made a bit too much to qualify for various financial aid, I don't qualify for scholarships because I'm not a minority, male, not handicapped, nor a super genius. I can't afford health insurance because I'm perpetually snagged paying for other aspects of just surviving like food, gas, rent, utilities, and car insurance. So, unless you have a $15/hr or more entry level job with good benefits you could get me, kindly shut the fuck up. I have about as much sympathy for a prince and his 50 wives as he does my predicament and those like me. Must be nice being born winning the lottery right off the bat.

[guartz]

I can use gas as tax deduction.

I hope it gets higher.

[pohibaba]

Trust me, if I had an alternative to gas, I'd use it. Myself, and countless others. Walking 50+ miles one way to get to work is out, let alone the 100+ round trip. Cupping my ears and going, "La La La, Big Oil has every right to anally rape me~" won't change that reality. If I choose to speak with my wallet and not buy, suddenly I can't get to work, and suddenly I'm unemployed. Lemme know when moral victories pay the bills, because I don't give a shit what book you wanna throw at me. At least I'm not sitting back spawning kids in a trailer park just to get additional welfare benefits without even trying to positively contribute to the economy.

Trust me, I would love to have born in a family where I could've rode daddy's coattails to college, snagged full scholarships, and otherwise went to class on a perpetual hangover. Instead, my folks made a bit too much to qualify for various financial aid, I don't qualify for scholarships because I'm not a minority, male, not handicapped, nor a super genius. I can't afford health insurance because I'm perpetually snagged paying for other aspects of just surviving like food, gas, rent, utilities, and car insurance. So, unless you have a $15/hr or more entry level job with good benefits you could get me, kindly shut the fuck up. I have about as much sympathy for a prince and his 50 wives as he does my predicament and those like me. Must be nice being born winning the lottery right off the bat.

OK, you're pulling on my heartstrings, I give up. Oil companies have no rights; they're heartless bastards. So how about you solve all of this and answer my question:

How much profit is too much? What would you force the price to be? $100 a barrel? $50 a barrel? Are you going to allow them to make any profit? Just enough profit to pay their workers? Just enough to pay their mortgages? Oh, I guess you're learning what every socialist government in the history of the world has discovered. It is impossible to plan an economy.