Tyche's rant on theft!

[-Omni]

...

What the fuck can you buy at Radio Shack?

[Norelco]

I kept mine in my wallet for ages and centuries. Reason people do it is because it isn't something you really think about. It's not really difficult to obtain someone's social security number if you put forth effort, but keeping easily accessible through a smash and grab is a bit wreckless as well. Anywho, we looked at some safes last night. We need one for our growing supply of paperwork and valuables that needs to be protected.

You don't have your SS # memorized?

[Tyche]

Of course I do, I had just always had it in there, ever since I pretty much started carrying a wallet when Identity theft was almost unheard of. It didn't really occur to me that it was a stupid idea until I lost my wallet a couple of years ago and had to go get a new fucking card. Then it struck me "Why do I need this in here again?" It just wasn't something that had ever trifled me enough to question why I did it.

[Mizango]

...

What the fuck can you buy at Radio Shack?

You mean besides a Splitter or a pack of batteries?

[netz]

Is it really that easy to abuse credit cards in the states? Since that is the impression I'm getting from this thread.

Yeah, the credit card companies here structure their merchant agreements to maximize the number of transactions that can be processed. Damage control from fraud is done after the fact, by the card-issuing bank. It works out pretty well for the consumer. You can dispute charges and most of the banks won't even sneeze, and some of them might even automatically do it for you, especially since the majority of them have systems in place that track your buying patterns. It screws businesses pretty hard, though, since they have to take the card and give the buyer the goods if the card is accepted (and signature matches). Annoying.

[izembo]

we card for id on every credit card, and do manual callin authorizations for all calls over $200. some people get upset, but there are a lot that thank us for it.

[Deejay]

we card for id on every credit card, and do manual callin authorizations for all calls over $200. some people get upset, but there are a lot that thank us for it.

Watching the "awwww maaaaaaaan" expression on thieves when they try to buy a 360/PS3, 5 games, and 4 extra controllers only to get denied at the register was always fun.

[Oxyminus]

the amount of credit card fraud that goes on at my store (wine shop/liquor store) is simply mind boggling. I've had numerous people walk in, and simply ask for a case, not bottle, but case of dom perignon, or moet rose, or moet nectar imperial (those are $1200, $700, and $500 sales roughly) and we of course tell them of course, no problem, we just need to verify the card and id by calling the card company for a billing address....everytime they go "oh come, my meter is almost out i gotta run blah blah blah" and they're surprised we wont simply let them waltz out with a couple hundred dollars worth of champagne. simply mind boggling...favorite was one time a woman actually got away with it, she got a bottle of moet, handle of henny, handle of patron anejo, she told my boss it was for her wedding so he didnt bother to follow his own procedure = her free booze. few weeks later fraud claim comes from CC company, I track down the transaction, print the receipt, and remember the woman...like 2 months later she comes back, and I tell her that her card is no good and I have a CC company rep on the phone to handle the matter...she got all flustered and said she had another card and she'd be right back, ran out the door hahah

[izembo]

truth.

happens way more often than i'd like to admit too. dont even bother getting the guts to the games until it all clears in those cases.

[netz]

we card for id on every credit card

Requesting
Cardholder ID
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? although Visa
rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants
cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance . Therefore, merchants cannot
refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to
provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their
regular card acceptance procedures . Laws in several states also make it illegal
for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or
phone number, on a sales receipt .

Ask for ID all you want, but they can tell you to fuck off / call Visa, who will then threaten to deny you the ability to accept Visa cards.

The right step is to make the voice authorization call, which you said you do. You could also enter the card number and run it as a card-not-present transaction, which will ask for their billing address (my terminal does, anyway) and tell you immediately if there's a mismatch.

In addition to following all standard card acceptance procedures, you should be
on the lookout for any customer behavior that appears suspicious or out of the
ordinary .
At the Point of
Sale
• Purchasing large amounts of merchandise with seemingly no concern for size,
style, color, or price
• Asking no questions or refusing free delivery on large items (for example,
heavy appliances or televisions) or high-dollar purchases
• Trying to distract or rush sales associates during a transaction
• Making purchases, leaving the store, and then returning to make more
purchases
• Making purchases either right when the store opens or just before it closes
Of course, peculiar behavior should not be taken as automatic proof of criminal
activity . Use common sense and appropriate caution when evaluating any
customer behavior or other irregular situation that may occur during a transaction .
You know what kind of behavior is normal for your particular place of business .
If you feel really uncomfortable or suspicious about a cardholder or transaction,
keep the card in your possession and make a Code 10 call . In any situation where
making the call with the customer present feels inappropriate or unsafe, complete
the transaction, return the card, and make the call immediately after the
customer leaves .

I won't lie. I think the fact that the credit card companies think this is anywhere close to an acceptable fraud management scheme is bullshit, but they're the ones running the show, and obeying their rules is a good thing (unless you want to lose the ability to process their cards). Seriously, it tells you to complete the sale that you pretty much know by instinct is fraudulent, and then call them for instructions. "Hello, I just sold $2000 but I think the dude was using a stolen CC, can I get my stuff back now?" "Nope! But we'll cover the ass of the person who had the card stolen from them, good luck recovering your losses. Thanks for using Visa!" I guess they have this attitude since it isn't their inventory that's walking out the door, never to be seen again. No skin off their back.

Technically, you have the right as the merchant to refuse to sell to anyone. Just don't base this on lack of valid ID, or you could be in a world of shit if you come across anyone with a hair across their ass and the balls to complain to your credit card processing company.

[Tyche]

Credit Card Companies bank appx 3% a sale. They really care about their policy so much they'd pull a machine from a company that banks them tens of thousands of dollars a week/month/year? I'm just curious as to if they'd really pull it, or just talk a lot of shit.

[netz]

Credit Card Companies bank appx 3% a sale. They really care about their policy so much they'd pull a machine from a company that banks them tens of thousands of dollars a week/month/year? I'm just curious as to if they'd really pull it, or just talk a lot of shit.

Not taking Visa/MasterCard could cost your business a lot more money than it would cost the credit card processor. If they took 3% (plus a fixed transaction fee) on your transactions amounting to $10,000 a month, it means you sold somewhere in the neighborhood of $330,000 through credit cards. Having your ability to process cards revoked clearly would hurt you more than it would hurt them. Sure, they'd miss the $10 grand, but that's a lot of money for your business to lose. If you're in the industry of selling big-ticket items, people just aren't going to be able to fork out that kind of cash at the point of sale, and you might be suspicious of taking personal checks in excess of $1000 (if you thought fraud prevention for CCs was shitty, try recovering money on a bounced check, where you won't know for a week if you'll even get the money).

I doubt they'll cut you off if they find you're going against their policies. After all, they only make money if you make money. I don't think they'd tolerate multiple offenses, though. At any rate, I suspect the only people who would even consider reporting you on that stuff are the real hardline privacy advocates who think it's their God given right to not identify themselves just to buy something. I sort of agree with them here, but I'm not going to bust some cashier's balls for making me sign a $5 receipt or for refusing to do a CC transaction under ten bucks or for making me show ID.

[RKenshin]

Yes, it is. I've never once been checked to verify my signature. I use my coworkers CC all the time to pick up lunch, same place almost every day, alternating CC's and they've never once said anything.

Perfect example of this?:

Part 1: http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/
Part 2: http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit_card/

Entertaining to read as well. Part 2 is the best of the two though.

This one wins:
http://www.zug.com/daily/journal/gra...2105_cc_pr.jpg

[izembo]

we card for id on every credit card

Requesting
Cardholder ID
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? although Visa
rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants
cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance . Therefore, merchants cannot
refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to
provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their
regular card acceptance procedures . Laws in several states also make it illegal
for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or
phone number, on a sales receipt .

Ask for ID all you want, but they can tell you to fuck off / call Visa, who will then threaten to deny you the ability to accept Visa cards.

The right step is to make the voice authorization call, which you said you do. You could also enter the card number and run it as a card-not-present transaction, which will ask for their billing address (my terminal does, anyway) and tell you immediately if there's a mismatch.

[quote:ink30ly5]
In addition to following all standard card acceptance procedures, you should be
on the lookout for any customer behavior that appears suspicious or out of the
ordinary .
At the Point of
Sale
• Purchasing large amounts of merchandise with seemingly no concern for size,
style, color, or price
• Asking no questions or refusing free delivery on large items (for example,
heavy appliances or televisions) or high-dollar purchases
• Trying to distract or rush sales associates during a transaction
• Making purchases, leaving the store, and then returning to make more
purchases
• Making purchases either right when the store opens or just before it closes
Of course, peculiar behavior should not be taken as automatic proof of criminal
activity . Use common sense and appropriate caution when evaluating any
customer behavior or other irregular situation that may occur during a transaction .
You know what kind of behavior is normal for your particular place of business .
If you feel really uncomfortable or suspicious about a cardholder or transaction,
keep the card in your possession and make a Code 10 call . In any situation where
making the call with the customer present feels inappropriate or unsafe, complete
the transaction, return the card, and make the call immediately after the
customer leaves .

I won't lie. I think the fact that the credit card companies think this is anywhere close to an acceptable fraud management scheme is bullshit, but they're the ones running the show, and obeying their rules is a good thing (unless you want to lose the ability to process their cards). Seriously, it tells you to complete the sale that you pretty much know by instinct is fraudulent, and then call them for instructions. "Hello, I just sold $2000 but I think the dude was using a stolen CC, can I get my stuff back now?" "Nope! But we'll cover the ass of the person who had the card stolen from them, good luck recovering your losses. Thanks for using Visa!" I guess they have this attitude since it isn't their inventory that's walking out the door, never to be seen again. No skin off their back.

Technically, you have the right as the merchant to refuse to sell to anyone. Just don't base this on lack of valid ID, or you could be in a world of shit if you come across anyone with a hair across their ass and the balls to complain to your credit card processing company.[/quote:ink30ly5]

when we run a card it gives us no info off of what should be the card. we ask for id on all, and if they wont give the id we can do a manual authorization for it, and we do. they never really cough up an id and the fraudulant ones are always over $200, or at least almost always.

[AzazaelFenrir]

...

What the fuck can you buy at Radio Shack?

What every welfare family needs!!! a 50" Flat screen and a PS3, for each kid of course, god forbid they share.

[Kyreth]

Plenty of pawnshop bait.

Someone at one point yoinked a CC number off of something (my guess considering the results was an employee at a rent-a-puter gaming center)...unfortunately for them, it wasn't too hard for me to get the purchasing info from the vendors in question....since, y'know I had the credit card and all.

Disputed about $1000 in online purchases and handed the info on everything over to the bank, including the fact that the user had put personal info for an address I hadn't even lived at when the account was started. Reversed the next day.

Anyone who plays FFXI knows just how easy it is to steal information, and that's all you need to use someone's credit in many cases.

[Norellicus]

Let's not overreact here...

MasterCard Merchant Rules, 9.11.2 Cardholder Identification

A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a card at the POI [point of interaction] refuses to provide additional identification information, except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A merchant in a country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address Verification Service (AVS) may require the cardholder’s ZIP or postal code to complete a cardholder-activated terminal (CAT) transaction, or the cardholder’s address and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or e-commerce transaction.

http://www.mastercard.com/us/wce/PDF/ME ... Manual.pdf

Visa Merchant Rules, pg 29

When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt.

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/ ... chants.pdf

It's not required, and the merchant can't refuse the sale if you deny them the ID check, but it's not like it's a violation of any particular rules (at least, Federally or as far as the card's service agreement is concerned; company policy where you work is another matter entirely).

If you're a fan of the "Ask for ID" on the signature block method, then sign the card (yes, you must sign it), and write ASK FOR ID underneath or to one side.

People who are paranoid about showing their DL to some store clerk are retarded though; you just handed over your credit card without hesitation, why be paranoid about DL?

Edit: Holy jeebus batman, I replied when there was no page two, and we're almost to page 3 already

Edit 2: Or there was a page 2 and I'm just blind, looking at the timestamps.

[Zoot]

"May I see your driver's license, please" is perfectly acceptable, and not illegal. It is a request that can be refused. In my opinion it should always be done. Scammers would probably avoid places which asked this question as not to have to make a scene.

Edit: Ah, now I remember - the main loophole to this is requiring the signed signature to match the reciept. This is what we did, and would not accept CC if they were not signed as per company policy. Not sure if it was legal though, lol.

For shoplifters, we had a "red flag" set up. When someone saw something suspicious they would call out to another employee asking a set, obvious question to which we all knew the answer. After that we would overbear them with customer service until they left, being sure to thank them on the way out for coming very loudly (i.e. we have been watching you).

[Quixon]

I have "SEE ID" on the back of every single one of my cards. Not like it matters, there's only a handful of places that ever bother to ask to see my license.


Back in my retail days I worked at the Timberland Factory Outlet in Woodbury Commons. We typically had a couple guys from the city come in and legitimately buy about 8 Grand in shit every weekend. They basically take the "Factory Second" stickers off the boxes and sell the boots they paid $99.00 for $160.00+.

Well one guy came in once and his card didn't scan electronically, it was all scratched up on the back. Store procedure was to manually enter the Card # into the register to complete the sale, and then Manually make an imprint of the card and attach it to the store printed receipt.

Well some douche didn't manually imprint the card, the dude reported it to the card company. All we had was a manually keyed card # so the transaction was considered void by card company. My store was out over $9,000 from that little fuck up lol.

The card companies have retailers by the balls. Good for the consumer as the Card Company is quick to jump to your defense in the event of an authentic card theft. The system is very easily abused though.

[Naramaska]

we card for id on every credit card, and do manual callin authorizations for all calls over $200. some people get upset, but there are a lot that thank us for it.

Out of curiosity, where is this? I've never had people verify my signature, even on multi-hundred dollar purchases...much less phone in for authorization. I'd gladly deal with the hassle to know fraud is less likely.