Remember that 7yr. old who stole his Grandma's car?

[SephYuyX]

I support spanking a child up until the point they're starting school (around the age of five). Before that, simply them knowing that they did something bad and are getting a punishment for it (a quick swat) is enough for a little kid. After they start school, though, they need to have learned the consequences of their action. Plus, the school can't hit kids and so by you still hitting them, it's just creating mixed signals.

Another thing that sucks these days; no nuns with rulers, and no principles with swat boards.

[Tomiko]

Why are you comparing violent behaviour to alcoholism? Mind telling me how an addiction largely based on chemicals and a behaviour based on experience relate?

Are you well aware that when someone suggests therapy and classes they aren't talking about using it whenever your child does something wrong, but rather an extreme case like the one presented in the article? You are using therapy and spankings erroniously in the same context. You can't honestly be suggesting corporal punishment to set this kid straight, much less is it considered ethical to simply toss a 7 year old in jail instead of at least, at the same time, giving the kid some therapy. Corporal punishment as a last resort is at best a preventative meassure used in education, therapy is something that comes after the fact.

It's more of an example (bad I guess?) to show that programs and such aren't guarenteed to solve the problem. Would a better example be comparing it to your parents telling you not to do one thing and why not to do it but instead you ignore them and do it anyways? I haven't had therapy so I don't know what it entails, but if a kid isn't gonna listen to his parents why would he listen to random strangers.

Again, if I'm a kid, why would I be worried about having to go see some stranger who's gonna talk to me? What's he gonna do if I don't listen to him and stop doing whatever?

To those of you saying therapy is the way, have you personally been brought up this way? I see plenty of us who were brought up being spanked that (claim to have) turned out fine. I don't think I've seen any here who were spanked say it hurt them more than it helped.

[Kuya]

Yep, it doesn't seem like you understood what i said at all.

[Tomiko]

You also didn't answer my question:

To those of you saying therapy is the way, have you personally been brought up this way? I see plenty of us who were brought up being spanked that (claim to have) turned out fine. I don't think I've seen any here who were spanked say it hurt them more than it helped.

And I didn't say anything about throwing him in jail.

[Kuya]

You also didn't answer my question:

To those of you saying therapy is the way, have you personally been brought up this way? I see plenty of us who were brought up being spanked that (claim to have) turned out fine. I don't think I've seen any here who were spanked say it hurt them more than it helped.

And I didn't say anything about throwing him in jail.

I know you did not say anything about jail, and your question is what denotes that you did not understand my post at all.

IE: It's completely irrelevant to what i said and that you are in fact mixing context.

[guartz]

You also didn't answer my question:

To those of you saying therapy is the way, have you personally been brought up this way? I see plenty of us who were brought up being spanked that (claim to have) turned out fine. I don't think I've seen any here who were spanked say it hurt them more than it helped.

And I didn't say anything about throwing him in jail.

Isn't it funny that people who grew up on "spankings" believe that further violence against this child is the better solution?

[Tomiko]

Because in most cases it works when done right (meaning not overdone).

[Ryko]

You also didn't answer my question:

To those of you saying therapy is the way, have you personally been brought up this way? I see plenty of us who were brought up being spanked that (claim to have) turned out fine. I don't think I've seen any here who were spanked say it hurt them more than it helped.

And I didn't say anything about throwing him in jail.

I know you did not say anything about jail, and your question is what denotes that you did not understand my post at all.

IE: It's completely irrelevant to what i said and that you are in fact mixing context.

Instead of dancing around the question just say "no" and move on instead of insisting that they didn't understand you. Your point and his question are not related so answering it with a relevant response would not be the end of the world. Remember that there are plenty of cases where people who went to therapy were found untreatable and continued their ways too, trying to blanket 1 solution as wrong using a reasoning that very much applies to practically any method is silly.

As for guartz, who would think that the people who experienced something would be the ones to advocate for it?!?! Astounding discovery, but I don't think they hand out nobels for stating the obvious.

[Kuya]

Instead of dancing around the question just say "no" and move on instead of insisting that they didn't understand you. Your point and his question are not related so answering it with a relevant response would not be the end of the world. Remember that there are plenty of cases where people who went to therapy were found untreatable and continued their ways too, trying to blanket 1 solution as wrong using a reasoning that very much applies to practically any method is silly.

Evidently the answer is no, because corporal punishment and therapy aren't used for the same thing, they aren't interchangeble, so answering the question is irrelevant because the premise is wrong.

What exactly is it that bothers you with me not answering a question that has no relevance to the argument i was trying to make, beyond falling for bait, that is.

[Ryko]

They are both used in an attempt to remedy one's lashing out, one by trying to instill fear of punishment, while the other is an attempt to "heal" through understanding what's at the heart of what's wrong. The bottom line is that theyre both attempting to reinforce some "ideal" to set someone right. If your point was to do nothing BUT bait the people who are for corporal punishment then you know full well what will happen to this topic, not by you or me but by a third party. I know you're far more intelligent than that and since you already acknowledged the lack of relevance of their question to your point, I'm going back to my original line in that you lose or gain nothing by answering it instead of dragging out such an obvious answer for god knows how long.

The answer is that arguing about this is absolutely fruitless, as the reasons why people do or don't do certain things widely vary. There are times I don't do something because it would be the wrong thing to do (generally these are tame in comparison though there are some doozies there), there are other times where the only reason I don't do something is because I don't wanna go to jail for it. Either way the bottom line is that society instilled enough of both in me to make me act relatively normal. Is therapy out of the question? No, but you once again can't go "well look at the people who were beaten and look how they STILL did this and that and the other thing" because there are plenty of people who go through therapy who end up just self-aware of their shit and become sociopaths because of it.

Not a single thing is fool-proof, and it's entirely hypocritical of me to say but that tub of fat is a lost cause. Waste whatever money you want to set him right, I bet dollars to donuts you'll be wasting more on the taxes to keep his lost cause ass incarcerated down the line.

[Beckwin]

who knows, that kid might be really good at an MMO someday.

let's not write him off yet.

[Ryko]

Can always hope! Don't forget smash too

Seriously though, you honestly thought the comparison, both aesthetically or otherwise didn't cross my mind? I was a problem child (granted it was more around the age of 11-13, back when I was 7 I didn't let my morose little ass do much of anything but get picked on) but last I checked I never hit my family or get a record. There were plenty of other factors around then that separated me from what is obviously this little sack of shit's fate (general intelligence and understanding, for one. Well that and hating anything remotely hoodrat) but it'll be way more interesting to entertain the notion of my being no better.

[Beckwin]

couldn't help it; it's late and I the comment amused me.

the kid is only 7, he's still got time to develop a conscience. tbh it seems like lack of parenting is probably the biggest problem for him; the fact that his grandmother is his guardian means there's no father in his life and at some point there was (a likely rough/messy) transition from his mother's care to his grandmother's. grandma's tend to spoil kids, which clearly doesn't help here (stop buying him ice cream, grandma). and excuse the stereotyping, but this is a young, urban African-American boy growing up without any sort of positive role models or reinforcement, which isn't exactly a recipe for a little darling or even the bare minimum of respect for others.

that being said, I don't think a belt is really gonna do much except aggravate him and create resent. beating the shit out of him and breaking him? probably would work in this case, but that isn't kosher and permanent mental damage isn't quite the end to shoot for. he needs a role model and having that same person be able to be able to scare him and teach some morals via example and imposition.

[Ryko]

I'd like to point out that I mentioned the call of hypocrisy in the original post by the way...

His upbringing's role on this is rather obvious, but it never was and never will be a good excuse. When people threw that at me (and still do) I couldn't help but feel it's a cop out and I never ever ever used that as justification for anything growing up. As for the role model stuff, I agree. However the cynic in me knows full well that said role model is more likely to be Suge Knight than anyone worth a damn >_>

A 7 year old isn't going to be taught to have a conscience aside from some serious brainwashing. The morals and ideals do need to be instilled in him but he has to understand the consequences for fucking up that severely, it may be "cruel" but it's a practical concern that sets it into a grim state of reality for him.

[Eaglestrike]

You also didn't answer my question:

To those of you saying therapy is the way, have you personally been brought up this way? I see plenty of us who were brought up being spanked that (claim to have) turned out fine. I don't think I've seen any here who were spanked say it hurt them more than it helped.

And I didn't say anything about throwing him in jail.

Isn't it funny that people who grew up on "spankings" believe that further violence against this child is the better solution?

Isn't it funny that the generation of parents that don't spank their children have a whole lot of fucked up kids with authority problems?

I got spanked when I was a kid. My little brother didn't. You can't get my little brother to do ANYTHING that resembles work, I'm stuck doing anything that just happened to be expected of him. Granted, there are some other factors involved, but how we were punished was drastically different from each other and our respect for authority are on very different levels.

[Beckwin]

yeah living in a socially freer society sucks.

also, spoilers: "back then" you could get away with more shit without it causing a fuss, whether it be childhood/teenage shenanigans or beating the shit out of your kids.

[Ryko]

The hell does society's state have to do with this? We're well over half a decade into the new millenium and last I checked social situations still widely vary as much as they did 10 years ago. Take it from one urban african american who grew up without a father, attempting to go extreme on either punishment or amicability on this will do nothing for the kid and no one's gonna give a shit that he "grew up without daddy" when he's getting carted off, it's not a good excuse. We already know the likelihood that his grandmother panders to the child is retardedly high, he's exhibited absolutely no understanding of empathy or remorse and is likely still blissfully unaware of the very dire consequences of his actions. A shrink will let him know how he affects the ones he should care about (which he also obviously doesn't), beyond that a belt to the ass now is far better than a dick to the ass in state pen later.

He needs the role model and other beneficial stuff so he has something to lose, he ALSO needs the concept of punishment to fully grasp that he stands to lose it.

[Elcura]

Simple answer: Super Nanny.

[Khamsin]

All beating the kid is going to do is enforce the notion in his head that violence gets you whatever you want.

You're contradicting yourself. If corporal punishment is ineffective and will not make the child behave, then all beating the kid is going to do is enforce the notion in his head that violence isn't the answer. Since it didn't work on him, he'll know it won't work on other people, and won't use it. The only way the child is going to grow up thinking violence is the answer is if it works to make him well-mannered and behaved, in which case he'll have the good sense to use it wisely and not be abusive.

that would make sense except for the fact that most violent criminals were physically abused as children

Probably because most violent criminals were little shitheads as children and did things requiring stern discipline in the first place. Then, there are some parents that are just abusive for no good reason which has nothing to do with discipline, but we're not talking about that. We're just talking about disciplinary corporal punishment, not giving your kid a black eye because he talked during your football game, or pushing your wife into the wall because your dinner was cold when you got home late after sticking it to her best friend.

[Beckwin]

The hell does society's state have to do with this? We're well over half a decade into the new millenium and last I checked social situations still widely vary as much as they did 10 years ago. Take it from one urban african american who grew up without a father, attempting to go extreme on either punishment or amicability on this will do nothing for the kid and no one's gonna give a shit that he "grew up without daddy" when he's getting carted off, it's not a good excuse. We already know the likelihood that his grandmother panders to the child is retardedly high, he's exhibited absolutely no understanding of empathy or remorse and is likely still blissfully unaware of the very dire consequences of his actions. A shrink will let him know how he affects the ones he should care about (which he also obviously doesn't), beyond that a belt to the ass now is far better than a dick to the ass in state pen later.

He needs the role model and other beneficial stuff so he has something to lose, he ALSO needs the concept of punishment to fully grasp that he stands to lose it.

Really, how hard do you think grandma can belt him? He's got some padding; she's gonna need a hell of a swing to actually make his ass sting enough to remotely care.