Proto-Ultima help

[Xavierus]

My limbus shell is now about ready to try our first Proto-Ultima fight (thanks for the advice on Central T F3 btw :D )

I'm trying to throw together a strategy for my linkshell and I have a couple of questions about the fight:

1) It starts to use Citadel Buster during the final 20% phase. Will it continue to use this over and over every 30 seconds there after or will it be used sparatically along with its other TP moves. Every time it uses CB, it uses nothing else during the countdown process correct?

2) Tank reccomendations. I have people that can be PLDs, NIN/DRK (or nin/war) etc. Which do you feel would be the best tank type job.

3) How useful is SMN against this mob? I guess it would be very difficult to have the avatar get hate off of the DDs to get hit by CB but not sure if that can be done.

4) I can probably pull 4 to 5 BLMs, one brd, and basically everything else that should be needed. Any general reccomendations on set ups etc would greatly be appreciated.


Thanks

[Burginator]

It'll use CB randomly, and it will use no other moves during the countdown. Imo, the best tank for this is PLD, just because it holds hate similar to a nin/drk, but it won't die nearly as fast. I've never seen SMNs used against proto-ultima, but I'd imagine BPs would kinda suck.

The basic setup my shell uses is:

PLD/NINx2
BRD
RDM
WHM
xxx

RNG
RNG
RNG
BRD
COR
RDM

And a couple of BLMs. I find RNGs are usually the most effective DDs on this, and they take minimal damage compared to the melees. Good luck :D

[Seraph]

A few quick tips:

You absolutely need your mages and melee aware of which shields Ultima has thrown up towards the last 40% of the fight. I have seen all too often a melee do a nice TA WS on a tank for 0 damage, or a BLM toss that huge nuke for......0 damage.

Ultima uses CB after the 19% mark every.... 2 minutes 30 seconds or so. I'm usually busy during the fight, so I have never timed it exactly. The countdown takes 30 seconds, and Ultima is nice enough to tell you how much time you have left.

A - Magic Damage Taken macro is suggested for tanks to press with about 5 seconds left on the time to help survive. PLDs can easily get the -25% needed to complement Shellra5. After that point, stack on MDB gear.

SCH is awesome for this fight for the AoE buffs for the tank party, and the dark weather buff. Assuming your CB tank has the Dark Obi, you can automatically cut down Ultimas CB damage to 90% normal, from a potential 120% because of the weather alone. Id suggest the tank clicks it off after CB though, because the loss from cures and flash sucks with that buff on. The base damage for CB is something just under 2100 damage if i remember correctly. Take that into consideration when planning on how your tanks will survive.

Have the tank have Utusemi up after CB lands. CB goes through shadows, and does not take any down. However, Ultima _loves_ to follow up usually with a swing and a Holy after CB. I have had tanks die to the followup to CB and not the move itself because they were too worried trying to keep hate and hit their gear macros.

Last point is to keep Ultima hovering at about 21% until you are absolutely ready to try to zerg it. have mages rest up, melees store TP, etc. Once Ultima throws up the more favorable shield to your setup, let it rip, and make sure to stun the TP move at 19% or else your tanks will lose their buffs (Shellra) and CB will become much more deadly. Speaking as a PLD, Shield Bash works wonders for this. The move comes very regularly at 79%, 59%, 39%, and 19%. Above all else, make sure the 19% one gets stunned.

[Indalecia]

We take 3-4 SMN's vs every ultima. Damage is just under Wyrm level (300-500 depening on BP, I've done crits for over 950). I once had a Garuda eat CB instead of a tank which was fun. Also, if a SMN gets killed, the avatar doesn't care. It'll still be at full power, you'll just have a smaller mp pool.

Also, giving him no TP at all always helps.

[chapstick]

We kill with:

PLD/NIN or NIN/DRK (or both)
BRD
BRD
RDM/WHM
BLM/RDM

RDM/DRK
BLM/RDM
BLM/RDM

@ each disspation, everyone watches for it and it never gets a chance to go through. Zerg last 20% after we make sure mana screen isn't up. If it gets messy, zombie is still possible(but no one wants this to happen of course).

I'd prefer the RNG setup that Burg said probably, but my group doesn't have many with RNG leveled.

[pyra_caitsith]

(Disclaimer: My group has maybe 10 Ultima kills, so could still be considered a 'new' group)

Just did this fight this weekend. We went a little short handed with the WHMs though (2), and only 1 brd.

For tanks, we've used (at different times), BLU/NIN, PLD/NIN, NIN/DRK, and RDM/NIN. All are quite effective at tanks if they know what they are doing. Really though, just about anything can tank the first ~80% of the fight. This is one of those battles that can go really well until 20%, then go really bad. BLU can pull hate fast and has the magic def spell (saline coat?) that can cause it to survive Citadel Buster, as well as its own Stoneskinga. There was a good thread a couple weeks ago about how to survive CB.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31943&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Its also very important to recast protect/shell after every dispel. Even as a smn, I usually do this fight w/ a RR earring on. Another idea is to carry RR scroll / reraiser as they can be used quickly if needed.

SMNs are very good for this fight. Normally, my group takes 2-3. They are also safer than many melee jobs. A normal, mostly AH smn can do ~300-400 dmg with Leviathan. The most experienced SMN is usually put in the tank party.

Also, you can bring mnks. This was as a mnk/drk (we were testing to see if HF+SE would work well, it didn't work well enough to be useful).

http://blogs.sphericality.org/pyra/w...ast-ultima.png

I've been hearing good things about blm/sch and whm/sch although have personally not tried either.

Other than that, take it slow the first time, and always watch which screen is up. I'm not sure if he can have both physical and mana up at the same time or not.

Another suggestion is to stop damage below 40% but above 20% and rest mp and hp to full, then keep going for the kill. Sometimes, my group has blms and whms (or anyone who might have a lot of hate built up and does not want it) log out and log back in to shed some hate. Not sure if it works or not though.

When he does Citadel Buster (CB), keep damaging until around 10, then run. If you have gravity, run around 20. Whoever has hate will get hit, but if you can survive or lose only 1, you are doing good enough. If target is an avatar, all the better (although the smn may get drawn in right after CB).

For the Melee, we usually go with a combination of SAM/THF, THF/SAM, and BLU/THF. The reason for THF and /THF is to TA onto the tanks. Normally, we keep the melee in until about 40%, then they meditate/sleep tp and TA + WS on the tanks (or TA + BLU spell). SAM also helps w/ the share TP move.

[Dioma]

On tanks, I think it's really preference, I prefer PLDs. Also, if you have a Merc Kris, KC, or BZ DRK, I'd suggest doing something similar to what my group did our last Ultima. We held it @ 21% and I received SV Troub Marches + Madrigals then we used a timed nuke to take it below 21% and I stunned Dissipation (Stunning Dissipation makes a HUGE difference) After that, wait until it starts the countdown (If it uses energy screen, you have to have your DRK hold off obviously but other than that, you can drop him before he even uses CB if you have a KC, haven't tried it with anything else yet since I had a KC available at the time but the only thing that would change was how low it takes him and it'd still be a significant amount of HP off with no risk of TP spam. Here's the video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MwbcWNYl7gg

[Linliel]

Make sure your melee go /NIN for shadows to soak up the AoE attacks. The more your mages can be concentrating on keeping your tanks alive the longer you'll last.

PLD/NIN are good tanks for it, NIN/DRKs also work well. Make sure you stun Dissipation, hold it around 25% so you can get your mages' MP back up and then go for a last heavy rush against it (usually with a RDM/DRK CS stunning it as soon as it drops mana screen) for the last 20%.

Don't forget that while CB is going off, whoever it is centered on should a) turn it away from the group (back left or right hand corner should be good, it has a sort of conal aoe on CB), and b) see it as an opportunity for some free damage. Basically, beat the crap out of it for that 30 seconds, all it does is count down!

Good luck ^^b May you get many legs and hands and feet and bodies and few hats!

[Dammerung]

http://kanican.livejournal.com/8445.html

Read that and you should be able to easily build off of that to support whatever kind of party configuration you have.

[Yutuyu]

1) It starts to use Citadel Buster during the final 20% phase. Will it continue to use this over and over every 30 seconds there after or will it be used sparatically along with its other TP moves. Every time it uses CB, it uses nothing else during the countdown process correct?

During CB it completely stops doing anything. CB is semi-randomly used during the last 20%. He won't use it back to back immediately though, there's usually a few TP moves inbetween each CB, and you do need to be mindful of those, especially armor buster.

2) Tank reccomendations. I have people that can be PLDs, NIN/DRK (or nin/war) etc. Which do you feel would be the best tank type job.

I'm partial to NIN/DRKs on Proto-Ultima myself, but PLDs are good too. They have an easier time surviving CB, but surviving CB actually isn't that important, just keeping up RR is. After you die from CB just get back up and jump right in the fray, during the past bit proto-ultima has such incredibly ADD that I've tanked him for like 3 minutes without dying weakened because he'll turn around and beat on others randomly.

3) How useful is SMN against this mob? I guess it would be very difficult to have the avatar get hate off of the DDs to get hit by CB but not sure if that can be done.

Sorta-kinda. It's nice to be able to do damage with physical and magic for the energy/mana screen phase, but SMNs suck at zerging, which is where your LS is mostly gonna have a problem.

4) I can probably pull 4 to 5 BLMs, one brd, and basically everything else that should be needed. Any general reccomendations on set ups etc would greatly be appreciated.


Thanks

You should be fine with 4-5 BLMs, 1 brd, 2-3 tanks, and the WHM/RDM support you need. But it's also a good idea to toss a few /thf melees on top for helping bring it down quickly and hate control. This isn't necessary, but it definitely helps. I'm partial to SAM/THFs personally, they do excellent damage and make hate completely solid no matter what. Plus the Meikyo at the end is very useful.

Just basically take it easy, pace yourself, make sure you debuff the fuck outta him with everything possible or he will eat your tanks quickly.

[Valyana]

SCH is awesome for this fight for [...] the dark weather buff. Assuming your CB tank has the Dark Obi, you can automatically cut down Ultimas CB damage to 90% normal, from a potential 120% because of the weather alone.

I don't think this actually works, someone tested it with an Air Elemental in the other thread. But it seems to me that the easiest way to test it would be with a cure, find a SCH and another player with Korin Obi and see who needs to have Aurorastorm to get the bonus.

[TacoTaru]

1) It starts to use Citadel Buster during the final 20% phase. Will it continue to use this over and over every 30 seconds there after or will it be used sparatically along with its other TP moves. Every time it uses CB, it uses nothing else during the countdown process correct?

I've never timed it but like others have said, once he starts using it, it is that and that only. Be VERY CAREFUL of Armor Buster during the last 20% because a double Armor Buster into a Citadel Buster can absolutely destroy your entire run if you're not careful. You should have BLM ready to stun after Armor Buster goes off the first time to recover everyone quickly.

2) Tank reccomendations. I have people that can be PLDs, NIN/DRK (or nin/war) etc. Which do you feel would be the best tank type job.

I'm indifferent. I prefer NIN/DRK for most of the fight, but PLD/NIN are the best at surviving Citadel Buster, in my opinion. It's doesn't take much to make a decent CB resist set up for PLD, but I've never seen one for NIN.

3) How useful is SMN against this mob? I guess it would be very difficult to have the avatar get hate off of the DDs to get hit by CB but not sure if that can be done.

SMN are absolutely GOLDEN for recovering on this fight. In my last linkshell we ended up on the floor with 18 people and had avatars hold it till we recovered. If you have multiple, zombie them out there for just melee damage and taking the Citadel Buster. We rotated two SMN using their avatars for a good 7minutes or so before we all ran back out there.

4) I can probably pull 4 to 5 BLMs, one brd, and basically everything else that should be needed. Any general reccomendations on set ups etc would greatly be appreciated.

It would really depend on how many you're bringing overall. Unless I missed it I didn't see you say that. My group runs with 10people on bosses and we normally do this set up:

PLD/NIN
PLD/NIN
BRD/WHM
WHM/SMN
WHM/SMN
RDM/DRK

RDM/BLM
BLM/RDM
BLM/RDM
WAR/NIN
MNK/NIN

We have yet to fail Ultima with this set up, and myself and the other PLD regularly survive Citadel Buster which makes the fight run MUCH smoother.

Good luck. We went into our first Ultima with 10 people expecting to lose and came out with 4 deaths. We went in a second time and came out with 0 deaths. We don't zerg this fight either, just take it down little bits at a time with SC and MB.

I kinda of skimmed the other posts so if it's already been said ignore, but Dissipation is almost are crucial to stun as anticipating Citadel Buster. If you have someone with windower, have them macro a call at 79%, 59%, 39% and 19% and have everyone stun as soon as it ticks down. Dissipation can hurt badly, and this is what used to wipe my old linkshell is poor stunning for this move.

[Therin]

SMNs are pretty godly for this, due to Damage -> TP ratio. Also, it's not 100% reliable, but it's fairly easy to force your avatars to soak up CB damage if you send them in to melee at 30 seconds, and have them BP at about 20 seconds and make sure no one else does anything at all for the remainder of the countdown (it should switch targets to the avatar).

Also, during the CB phase, if you have multiple SMNs you can just leave them on Ultima constantly.

[GSDragoon]

I'm partial to NIN/DRKs on Proto-Ultima myself, but PLDs are good too. They have an easier time surviving CB, but surviving CB actually isn't that important, just keeping up RR is. After you die from CB just get back up and jump right in the fray, during the past bit proto-ultima has such incredibly ADD that I've tanked him for like 3 minutes without dying weakened because he'll turn around and beat on others randomly.

Just one armor buster is going to kill you weakened unless you have a ton of buffs or something of that sort. Ultima is SOOO much easier if you have a tank than can survive CB. Stunning dissipation and having a balance between meele and magic dmg helps too. He's really not that bad. The first 80% is easy, then you just need a good tank to eat CB and your meele need to back off if he gets too spammy, especially with armor buster.

[Rakshaka]

I really enjoy being SMN on this fight. I can take care of almost all of the enfeebles that ultima puts on the tanks. Also, chaotic strike extremely useful, due to it's long stun duration. Its damage may be slightly less than pred claws or SD, but the 5-15 second stun more than makes up for it.

[Xavierus]

Here are some brief outlines of the strategy I have put together from your post. Please let me know if I am missing anything that can cripple this strategy:

This is a rough set up that is fairly feasible for my group, provided the key people show up:

Tank Party:
PLD/NIN -
NIN/DRK -
BRD -
WHM -
RDM/DRK -
SMN -

BlackMage Party
BLM x 4
RDM/WHM -
WHM -will not be controlled by anyone since we are using his spawn set then logging him out. I assume he has to enter the zone? >.>

DD Party
RNG/NIN -
RNG/NIN -
RNG/NIN -
DRK/THF -
DRK/THF -
WHM (or RDM/WHM) -

100% to 0%:

-Once engaged, have tanksbuild up hate for a bit. Land debuffs (slow II, paralyze II, elegy, blind etc) and DoTs (Bio, 3 blm ones)
-Dissipation goes off every 20% (around 79, 59,39, 19) according to what I’ve read, so a stun order should be started at 81,61,41,21% by BLMs and RDM/DRK.
-Tank party summoner should keep stoneskin and phalanx up at all times.
- DRK/THF will build TP, SATA Tanks, then move away from the battle for a bit (to allow tank to build hate since primary damage will come from RNG and BLM) and will use Absorb TP to help minimize TP moves. In other words, DRKs will not be engaged in mob the entire battle as it could lead to unnessesary healing and cause risks for hate management.


20%-0%

- Recommend at low 20’s to hold Ultima and rest MP. (if RNG subbed SAM, they could build TP at this point too I guess).
- Once ready to engage, use stun order to attempt to eliminate the dissipation (very important since AoE terrorize + dispelga)
- According to my reading, he opens up with CB and uses it every 90 seconds beyond that. One of the tanks (one without hate at this point) will exit the room while the other (preferably the PLD/NIN) will stay in to eat the CB. With Phalanx, SS, +MDB there is a slim chance he will live)
- Ultima will then draw in the next person with hate (hopefully the other tank), That tank should build hate obviously while the other tank RRs and rest.
- At this point, depending on the shield Ultima puts up, that respective group should go all out.
- If Magic Shield goes up, melee should build TP and run full attack + 2 hours + whatever they can throw at it (this is where /nin will be useful for RNGs as they will likely get drawn in).
- If Physical Shield goes up, DRK can stun. RDM/DRK uses CS+Stun and BLMs spam their strongest spells. RDM/WHM will also use CS + whatever they can throw at it. RNG can use Holy bolt heads.
-If a second CB goes off, whomever has hate will have to stay down there and continue to build hate on it until they die. Then finish it off with whatever you have left.

I appreciate everyones input as of thus far ^^

[Osede]

100% to 0%:

-Once engaged, have tanksbuild up hate for a bit. Land debuffs (slow II, paralyze II, elegy, blind etc) and DoTs (Bio, 3 blm ones)
-Dissipation goes off every 20% (around 79, 59,39, 19) according to what I’ve read, so a stun order should be started at 81,61,41,21% by BLMs and RDM/DRK.

Don't stun at 81,61,41,21. Dissipation happen at the point where ultima hp change from 80->79, 60 -> 59 and etc. Best way is once its hp close to 81~82%, do a skill chain with MB, and a rdm with fastcast equip to watch for the stun.

As for the CB issue, don't worry, once after the CB the hate will start mess up even your tank didn't die. I'm believe that after CB, the ultima will lower everyone's hate until certain level (you can see that the ultima start draw in ppl randomly, instead of the previous tank).

For the setup, usually we go for 3 tank, pld/nin, nin/drk, nin/drk for safety purpose. Sometimes when the proto ultima doesn't happy on the day, the annihilator(or something else) can one shot the tank lol. While our melee DD party only consist of 2 sam, and usually around 4blms for MB.

tank - pld/nin, nin/drk x 2, rdm/whm, whm/whatever, brd/whm.

mage - blm/whatever x4~5, cor/whm or brd/whm

melee - rdm/drk (2boxed char), whm/blm( another 2boxed), sam/thf x 2

it is better the rdm in tank pt sub whm while the rdm in other pt sub drk. becasue there is an ultima's ability that will slow+elerge the tank at the same time, which will hurt the utsu cast time badly.

[Linliel]

Yes, you definitely need to wait for Dissipation. Don't stun until you see "Proto-Ultima readies Dissipation." We usually have everyone with stun ready at those points because people can get trigger happy when they see the click over from 80-79 or w/e. It's not like it happens quickly after that so it's not too big a deal if more people stun than necessary.

Rest of it looks alright, but you'll probably find you'll have to go through a few CBs especially on your first run. Have your backup tank ready to go in and grab hate as soon as CB goes off, or you'll have random people getting drawn in and whacked.

Oh yeah, and tell your mages to keep Blink up if they're weak and in range, Ultima often pops off random Holy IIs on people that seem to have nothing to do with current otherwise hate. Blink may not work but it could save them, haha

[Osede]

additional info:
Proto Ultima will begin to use the mana/physic screen at 30% hp ( or 40%?), so at that point, if ultima uses mana screen when it close to 20%hp, tell everyone hold there attack, since you don't want the dissipation to fuck up your buff. Until when its mana screen off, then do a quick skill chain. If it is physic screen, it won't be any matter, just tell your skill chain memeber do the skill chain and nuke its hp off to trigger the dissipation.

[Xavierus]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice. I used the strategy above with 2 NIN/DRKs and we were able to successfully defeat Proto-Ultima. The battle was not without its flaws though. Fairly smooth sailing till the last 20% where we prematurely took him into the final phase (before mages had enough MP). Several deaths occured and it took about 10 minutes to kill him the rest of the way, but I am sure we will do better the next time.

Hands and Legs dropped btw.


Thanks Everyone!