MLB '08 Season Discussion

[Jaffar]

Take manny- good luck dealing with his BS.

This coming from a Bostonian... while I've loved manny for most of his tenure here, this latest round is so ridiculous, I don't mind seeing him go (owning Jason Bay on my fantasy squad is a little side bonus if the trade with the marlins/pirates happens).

Good luck to him trying to get a $100M+ contract after showing everyone that $20M a year isn't enough motivation to make him play an entire season... especially trying to put up big numbers with the Marlins, instead of being protected by the likes of Papi & Co...

Manny 8 years ago was worth the headaches, Manny today is not.

[Akiyama]

I doubt he'd go to the Yankees honestly, but I'd be interested to see this lollygagger in the NL.

Also, LOFUCKINGL at that signature. I cracked up laughing at that.

[Deejay]

@ Jaffar/all boston fans Oh please, you can't put a price on clutch. Manny's got it and that's all that matters.

If you guys trade him I don't see the Sox winning anything this year.

[Akiyama]

Hell. The Sox are in trouble in their own division, much less the World Series. 3 back from the Rays, tied in the loss column with the Yankees, and all.

I own Jason Bay in Fantasy too. That'd be nice to see him over there. I own Tex too, so when he got traded... lol. I mean, this is rough on my team right now. D: Hudson might be done for the year, Kerry Wood is hurt with a blister still.. so I'm in trouble.

Also, Manny has Cantu and Uggla both having incredible seasons, so he MIGHT have some protection. Who knows?

[Reality]

Well, we just got Griffey from Cincinatti, for 2 Minor Leaguers and possibly Brian Anderson, also a couple of their pitchers might be coming to the south side as well

not sure where Griffey will play on the Sox, all of his positions are currently filled unless Ozzie plans on putting this guy who was born in the 60's, in CF.

hmm

[Deejay]

Marlins don't get on base though lol. They just count on their pitching for 7 innings then wait for someone to get a lucky hit/ walk and then drive them in with a HR.

They don't play defense, don't get on base, and strike out a lot. They just hit HR's and that makes them one of the best baseball teams ever lol.

[Jaffar]

Manny's already packed it in here though- if I thought he'd actually put 80%+ plus effort into the remainder of the season, I wouldn't want him to go... I just don't think that's going to happen with him here. His knee will continue to 'act up' whenever anyone who can hit 95mph+ on the gun is on the mound- eloquently called Joba-itis by peter gammons.

A-rod opted out of his contract after an MVP season, Manny's essentially opting out of his just after the halfway point of a less than stellar season (by manny standards).

[Deejay]

You don't know how much Yankee fans would pay to have A-Rod play HALF AS WELL as Manny in the playoffs. Who cares if he mails it in during the summer? Big time players earn their paychecks in September/October.

Red Sox are only pussying out because theres an actual 3 way race. Trying to blame Manny for all your woes isn't going to get the team anywhere. I HOPE to god they trade him. Then the Red Sox won't have anyone to complain about but themselves.

[Akiyama]

You're right and wrong Deejay about the Marlins. For one, they don't depend solely on their pitching, because their Team ERA is woeful. Their starting pitchers aren't nearly as consistent as you'd expect someone's team to be in a pennant race. It's funny though that the rest you said is correct and they are winning solely on situational hitting and homeruns.

Hanley does get on base a good bit, but not as much as you'd like a lead-off to get on obviously. He's got a ton of pop though, and when everyone you have in a line-up has a chance to go yard, that makes a line-up super dangerous.

As far as Griffey, I can't say where the White Sox would put him, and I'm sure you'd know more than me about the situation, but it'd make sense to leave Quentin/Dye in Left/Right, put Griffey in Center, move Swisher to 1B and bench a struggling Konerko. That's what I'd do anyway. I just don't know how Griffey would do in Center now. He doesn't have the moves he once did. D:

[Daahan]

Alrighty then the Cubbies seem to be pulling out of their slump. Complete domination of the Milwaukee Errors (at least that's what they should be called for this series!). The Brewers can be knocked down to third place I believe if they lose the next and the Cardinals win.

Cubs pitching has been solid.

[Akiyama]

Harden gets lit up tonight. Calling it here.

[Orph]

If the Marlins get Manny, any ball hit to the outfield will be a base hit. That outfield defense will be atrocious.
I am amazed that they are a team above .500, their rotation is awful, their bullpen is awful, only thing they do well is hit homeruns.

[Akiyama]

Yeah, I know. It's really odd that they are last in a lot of categories, but are 1.5 games back. Goes to show how wide open the East is. Three team race for the win. In fact, all the races for the divisions are tight except the AL West, which the Angels have in a landslide.

[Viq]

While it's true that the Sox are a worse team without Manny than they are with him, they still wouldn't be an awful offensive team if they trade him. I don't know if you've heard of a guy named David Ortiz, but the Sox had a winning record with him on the DL for over a month. Granted, JD Drew stepped up big time, but it shows that the Sox can still get by without one of their two big bats.

A lineup that looks like this can still score some runs:
Pedroia
Youkilis
Ortiz
Lowell
Drew
Bay
Varitek
Lowrie
Ellsbury

The Sox making the playoffs doesn't depend as much on whether or not Manny stays. It depends on Beckett returning to form, and finding a way to shore up the bullpen (Protip: Masterson isn't the answer). Pitching is the key to consistantly winning baseball games, and the Sox have more questions on the mound than they do in left field.

[Akiyama]

Actually, if JD Drew didn't go on that ridiculous streak of hitting that he did, the Red Sox might not have been above .500 while Ortiz was gone. Now if Manny goes, Ortiz isn't as protected, so it'll be easier to pitch around him to get to someone else. Veritek doesn't really count as offense anyway since he's so god awful. =P I wouldn't mind seeing Bay bat 4th or 5th honestly. Put Drew 3rd, Ortiz 4th, Bay 5th, Lowell 6th maybe?

[Viq]

They won't move Ortiz out of the 3-hole, and Francona won't put Drew and Ortiz back-to-back. I've never seen a manager so in love with keeping at least the heart of his order on alternating sides of the plate. It's part of the reason why it took a solid five months for him to flip Drew and Lowell in the 5 and 6 spots last season despite Drew having a horrendous year with the bat. I suppose he could try to stick Bay behind Ortiz, but I'm not sure that would be the best way to handle it. Personally, I would prefer to see Drew become the lead-off hitter (I'm at work, so I can't look up the numbers, but his career numbers leading off are great) until Ellsbury makes the adjustments that he has to make to get on base more. Have Pedroia back in the 2-slot, which he is better suited for. Then Ortiz, Youk, Lowell, Bay, lolbottomthird.

EDIT: I should reiterate that I don't want any of this to happen. The Sox with disgruntled Manny > Sox with no Manny.

[Cephius]

It's just a simple fact that a Red Sox lineup without Manny doesn't scare you as much. The guy almost earned his paycheck for doing as well as he did against the Yankees alone. He has a .450 average against them as a team, has more HRs than anyone against the Yankees, and more clutch hits than I can count. I believe I speak for every Yankee fan in that if Manny never wears a Red Sox uniform again it is too soon.

Bay is a fine player, but he is no Manny. I never count the Red Sox out until they are mathematically eliminated, but with Ortiz is getting older and has health problems, Lowell is well on the wrong side of 30, Varitek's average is on a B-line to the interstate, the shine has dimmed on the star that was Tacoby Bellsbury, and the bridge to Papelbon is made of metaphorical rotting wood. They certainly have more problems than in recent memory.

Also with the lineup I posted above for the Yanks, it's under the assumption that it would be Bobby in right, Damon in left, and Nady in center.

EDIT: ESPN reporting now that Manny has approved a trade to the Marlins, clearing a major hurdle for the trade to go through. Oh happy days!

[Akiyama]

Well Manny already said he wouldn't deny a trade to get out of Boston, but that's good news. Seeing him in a Marlins uniform is gonna be so odd...

[Jaffar]

H/AB R HR RBI SB AVG Age Cost
Bay : 111/393 72 22 64 7 .282 29 $5.7M (7.5 in '09)
Manny:109/365 66 20 68 1 .299 36 $20M + lots of headaches

Damnit, as I was digging through stats, Gammons updated his blog, saying the marlins are asking for 2 prospects, plus more the the $7M remaining on his salary.... essentially sox would be trading Manny, $9M + 2 prospects for Jason Bay.... probably not going to happen.

[Cephius]

H/AB R HR RBI SB AVG Age Cost
Bay : 111/393 72 22 64 7 .282 29 $5.7M (7.5 in '09)
Manny:109/365 66 20 68 1 .299 36 $20M + lots of headaches

Damnit, as I was digging through stats, Gammons updated his blog, saying the marlins are asking for 2 prospects, plus more the the $7M remaining on his salary.... essentially sox would be trading Manny, $9M + 2 prospects for Jason Bay.... probably not going to happen.

Here's what would scare you about Jason Bay:

RISP: 18/86 (.209 2 HR) and has not gotten a hit with the bases loaded in 4 chances. Not to mention he's never been in a pressure situation in his career, going to Boston and being expected to replace Manny.

Compare that with Manny who (in a down year, mind you) is batting .313 with RISP with a .542 slugging %. They are far from equal.