MLB '08 Season Discussion

[blister1]

HanRam, Upton, and Wright. Still don't buy Pujols being 28.

I wouldn't call Santana overrated, but the Mets are gonna start regretting that deal in a few years (they can be somewhat thankful that they didn't trade A+ prospects) He gave up 33 homers last year, not surprisingly his velocity dipped to 91 from 93 he was sitting at in 2006. For a guy that's 29, a loss of velocity should be of some concern.

[Akiyama]

HanRam, Upton, and Wright. Still don't buy Pujols being 28.

I wouldn't call Santana overrated, but the Mets are gonna start regretting that deal in a few years (they can be somewhat thankful that they didn't trade A+ prospects) He gave up 33 homers last year, not surprisingly his velocity dipped to 91 from 93 he was sitting at in 2006. For a guy that's 29, a loss of velocity should be of some concern.

Agreed. He could've been overpitched a bit with Minnesota.

Either way, I'd definitely take HanRam, possibly both Uptons, David Wright as a corner infielder, and whoever I can get to start my team. They're studs.

Glavine got his 305th win today, and it was against the Mets, so I'm sure he was happy.

[Reality]

santana overrated? no. he didn't have a terrible 2007, but it wasn't his best year either. 2008 for johan reminds me of Beckett's 2006, when pitchers change teams PLUS leagues, there's an adjustment period. johan will be back to his superstar status next year, book it.

[Cephius]

santana overrated? no. he didn't have a terrible 2007, but it wasn't his best year either. 2008 for johan reminds me of Beckett's 2006, when pitchers change teams PLUS leagues, there's an adjustment period. johan will be back to his superstar status next year, book it.

You cannot seriously compare Beckett (National league -> American league) to Santana (vise-versa). There should be no adjustment when you come from facing the best hitters to some of the worst. Do you really think Santana would do as well as he has against the Nationals against teams like Detroit Cleveland and the ChiSox? Even granted that 2 of those teams are underachieving, hitters in the NL east aren't a pimple on the butts of hitters in the AL Central. There is no excuse for Mike Mussina (!) having more wins than Johan at this point. It's been noted that Johan has lost velocity on his pitches, and him giving up longballs isn't going to change. If anything, hitters will adjust to him after seeing him more.

Bottom line, has Johan been good thusfar? Sure. Has he been a $151 million pitcher pitching in the national league should be? Not quite. Sorry, I don't see how there's any factual basis for calling this an adjustment year when you can easily argue the AL features much more potent lineups than the NL.

[Akiyama]

santana overrated? no. he didn't have a terrible 2007, but it wasn't his best year either. 2008 for johan reminds me of Beckett's 2006, when pitchers change teams PLUS leagues, there's an adjustment period. johan will be back to his superstar status next year, book it.

You cannot seriously compare Beckett (National league -> American league) to Santana (vise-versa). There should be no adjustment when you come from facing the best hitters to some of the worst. Do you really think Santana would do as well as he has against the Nationals against teams like Detroit Cleveland and the ChiSox? Even granted that 2 of those teams are underachieving, hitters in the NL east aren't a pimple on the butts of hitters in the AL Central. There is no excuse for Mike Mussina (!) having more wins than Johan at this point. It's been noted that Johan has lost velocity on his pitches, and him giving up longballs isn't going to change. If anything, hitters will adjust to him after seeing him more.

Bottom line, has Johan been good thusfar? Sure. Has he been a $151 million pitcher pitching in the national league should be? Not quite. Sorry, I don't see how there's any factual basis for calling this an adjustment year when you can easily argue the AL features much more potent lineups than the NL.

...what? First of all, are you saying the AL Central is leaps and bounds above the NL East in terms of potent hitters? Is that how I read that? If so, you need to get your facts straight, seriously. Sure, the Nationals are a bunch of suck, but they are the Nationals. They are supposed to finish last or 2nd to last. Hitters like Hanley Ramirez, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard (if he EVER gets it going), David Wright, and then the Braves hitters like Chipper and Mark Teixeira.. they are all better than some of the best hitters in the AL Central. The Tigers are underachieving like a motherfucker, but do have a lot of pop with Maggs and Cabrera. The Indians have pitching, but can't hit for squat right now, and the Twins are the Twins. They don't have much pop in their bat. The Royals are ranked near the very bottom in terms of homers as a team right now, but do hit well for average which is why they are a big surprise this year, and the White Sox leading HR hitter is Carlos Quentin. I know he's a great young talent, but what else do they have? Why else have they been getting shutout and beat in games like 3-1, and other low scoring affairs. Yet the NL East hitters aren't even a pimple on the butts of the AL Central? Okay. Sure, whatever you say. You must be an AL Central fan.

Now. If you wanted to say the NL East aren't pimples on the asses of the AL East or something? Sure, then that's believable. A-Rod, Ortiz, Manny, and all those guys are great hitters, no doubt. The AL Central though is weak. Last year the AL Central was a good division with the Indians, Tigers, and Twins battling it out for playoff spots, but this year, it's a .500 division. I doubt it'll be a .500 division all year as I think as it heats up, so will the Tigers and Indians bats, but as of right now, I think they are one of the weaker divisions in the AL.

Seriously though. Saying that some of the best young hitters in the NL (which imo come from the NL East right now) is insane. I'd be willing to say that the AL Central is the second worst division in the Majors, only ahead of the NL West. If you want to argue that Santana is still great, go ahead, because I'll go along with that. If you want to say that there is no adjustment period what-so-ever, then you must not be a real baseball fan and haven't looked deep into facts.

[Viq]

How can Santana go back to being a superstar next year when he hasn't lost superstar status? He's only lost 2 games, and one of those was a fantastic game against the Brewers with Ben Sheets on the mound (I took the train to NYC for it, and it was so worth it.) He's got 3.8 k:bb, 3.30 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, etc. He's averaging 6.2 IP per start. His numbers aren't bad by any means. As has been stating already, the NL East has some killer bats. I can't really find anything wrong with Santana's year so far.

[Cephius]

I should have broadened to the whole AL but still, you're nitpicking and missing my point. It is a BREEZE pitching in the NL compared to the AL. Teams in the AL keep trying to trot out players (especially relievers) who have made a name for themselves in the NL and they get killed in the AL. Josh Beckett is probably the biggest exception to that rule. I could bring up 4-5 examples on the Yankees alone in the last 5 years. Also, the AL central still has a lot of great hitters even if their teams aren't performing well. Joe Mauer is an incredible hitter. Justin Morneau is having a good year. Curtis Granderson is one of the best young hitters in the whole league. Jermaine Dye is a solid hitter when he stays healthy. Also, you say the Tigers hitters are bad because they're underachieving but you say Ryan Howard is better if he ever gets it going? You can't have it both ways. Either a hitters suck because they're underachieving or he's good because he CAN hit well.

I still think he's pitching in the weaker offensive division and thus should be having a bit better year than he is.

And FYI, I'm a Yankee fan, I'm not a fan of the AL central at all.

EDIT: For Viq, as was stated, his velocity is down, he's on pace to give up over 35 HRs, and leaving after 6 innings is "meh" for a $151 million dollar pitcher. Like I said, are his numbers good? Sure. Also, even though his 2 losses were good games pitched, he also won two games against the Nationals and gave up a bunch of HRs to a team with absolutely no power. I know a bunch of Met fans, and even they wish he was a little better. But hey, he's always been better in the 2nd half so he may still turn it on.

[Akiyama]

I should have broadened to the whole AL but still, you're nitpicking and missing my point. It is a BREEZE pitching in the NL compared to the AL. Teams in the AL keep trying to trot out players (especially relievers) who have made a name for themselves in the NL and they get killed in the AL. Josh Beckett is probably the biggest exception to that rule. I could bring up 4-5 examples on the Yankees alone in the last 5 years. Also, the AL central still has a lot of great hitters even if their teams aren't performing well. Joe Mauer is an incredible hitter. Justin Morneau is having a good year. Curtis Granderson is one of the best young hitters in the whole league. Jermaine Dye is a solid hitter when he stays healthy. Also, you say the Tigers hitters are bad because they're underachieving but you say Ryan Howard is better if he ever gets it going? You can't have it both ways. Either a hitters suck because they're underachieving or he's good because he CAN hit well.

I still think he's pitching in the weaker offensive division and thus should be having a bit better year than he is.

And FYI, I'm a Yankee fan, I'm not a fan of the AL central at all.

EDIT: For Viq, as was stated, his velocity is down, he's on pace to give up over 35 HRs, and leaving after 6 innings is "meh" for a $151 million dollar pitcher. Like I said, are his numbers good? Sure. Also, even though his 2 losses were good games pitched, he also won two games against the Nationals and gave up a bunch of HRs to a team with absolutely no power. I know a bunch of Met fans, and even they wish he was a little better. But hey, he's always been better in the 2nd half so he may still turn it on.

Again, I don't think you are giving the NL any credit at all. The AL has had the DH for a long time. The DH is an unfair advantage for the AL as you can have a power hitter that can't really do much else in the field and it's okay. You can't do that with the NL, so the DH over here during Interleague isn't nearly as good. For one, it's not a BREEZE to pitch in any league, but it's not like going from Varsity to Junior Varsity in pitching this year. It's tough.

I guess I'll nitpick now. Curtis Granderson is going to be a good hitter, but he's a lousy lead-off hitter right now because he STRIKES OUT A FUCK TON. Seriously. He doesn't have control over what he swings at. A lead-off guy is supposed to take pitches, get some walks along with a decent average to get on base. He's batting ~.230ish right now I believe, and hardly walks. I know he had the injury, but that has nothing to do with a walk rate. He had shitty walk rates last year too. That's a mechanics thing though, so I'm sure he'll fix it. The Twins hitters are nice, but one of them is missing some of his power right now. The AL Central have decent hitters, but none that are leaps and bounds above the NL East or even the Central.

Also, fine. Ryan Howard is also underachieving, even if he already has 10 homers. It's completely hit or miss with him. The Tigers hitters on the other hand were supposed to net their team something like 1000 runs. I guess you should blame ESPN for that kind of hype, because their offense is horrendous. They just don't mesh well together. I think there are some locker room issues there with that organization, personally. I'm sure they'll turn it around, but they need to work on that fast.

He's pitching in a weaker league, but the division is the same, if not better. The NL East is better than the AL Central in my view, and not because I'm a Braves fan. I'm not biased with my opinions, as I'd like to go into sports writing. If I wanted to be successful, I would want to stay far away from being biased as I can. I just think the NL East has a lot of talent over the AL Central right now.


As far as Santana pitching bad? Hell no. I'd kill to have him on my team. Is he pitching up to what his contract pays? No. With his contract, he should be like.. 7-1 right now with less homers given up. Then again, I'm being unrealistic. I still think he's adjusting, even if it's a "weaker" division.

Oh well, I'm gonna end my thoughts here. I don't want to get into a real argument or anything. Let's agree to disagree on our opinions.

[Weeks]

I should have broadened to the whole AL but still, you're nitpicking and missing my point. It is a BREEZE pitching in the NL compared to the AL.

Um, no. Run scoring is higher in the NL than in the AL this year, and it's due almost entirely to higher rates of extra-base hits per flyball, which is controlled almost entirely by the hitter, not the pitcher. All that talent that went from the NL to the AL in the past five years is now past its prime. Also, AL teams have increasingly been developing and promoting players for defensive purposes. It allowed the AL to be the dominant league for about two years, but now the tide has turned and objective measures indicate that the NL is the better offensive league.

Teams in the AL keep trying to trot out players (especially relievers) who have made a name for themselves in the NL and they get killed in the AL. Josh Beckett is probably the biggest exception to that rule.

I assure you that the opposite occurs too. Adam Kennedy alone negates like 15 middle relievers (A notoriously volatile commodity to start with).

And FYI, I'm a Yankee fan

Kill yourself.

PS - He's right about Santana. His velocity is down and thus his HR rate is up.

[blister1]

And FYI, I'm a Yankee fan

Kill yourself.

Been there, done that. We fucking suck right now. On the bright side, ARod homered and Jeter's out for the rest of the series.

I can't wait until next year when we lose these shitty ass contracts.

[Cephius]

Kill yourself.

Oh, I don't need much encouragement at this point But hey, the only bright side about sucking is getting rid of those worthless bandwagon Yankee fans.

And if you disagree about the NL being weaker than the AL then so be it. Numbers fluctuate a lot but I still say there is way more offensive talent in the AL.

[Viq]

Kill yourself.

Oh, I don't need much encouragement at this point But hey, the only bright side about sucking is getting rid of those worthless bandwagon Yankee fans.

And if you disagree about the NL being weaker than the AL then so be it. Numbers fluctuate a lot but I still say there is way more offensive talent in the AL.

Here's hoping those fans sell their tickets cheap in a month or two. I may not like the Yankees at all, but I would love to go to Yankee Stadium one last time.

[Akiyama]

Kill yourself.

Oh, I don't need much encouragement at this point But hey, the only bright side about sucking is getting rid of those worthless bandwagon Yankee fans.

And if you disagree about the NL being weaker than the AL then so be it. Numbers fluctuate a lot but I still say there is way more offensive talent in the AL.

Here's hoping those fans sell their tickets cheap in a month or two. I may not like the Yankees at all, but I would love to go to Yankee Stadium one last time.

Agreed. I'd love to leave a dump in Yankee Stadium. I mean.. in the toilet, obviously. I'd never deface such a great ballpark. I don't hate the Yankees at all. I suppose I dislike them a bit because they have money. =[

[Cephius]

See I dunno, maybe its cuz I go there every year, or because I wasn't alive to see Mickey/Maris/DiMag/ect, but it's not that big of a deal to me. The new stadium is freakin awesome, the dimensions are exactly the same, and it's right across the friggin street. I don't fall for the "omg last year at yankee stadium" bit as much I guess. If the team was moving (even across town or something) it might be a bigger deal, but you can spit on the new stadium from the old one. I guess it's just me.

[Akiyama]

I guess it's not so much how the ballpark is, but the history there. You don't have to have been alive back then when the greats played to still feel the tradition off of everything there at Yankee Stadium, and the rich history there. I wish I was alive during Mantle, Ruth, Lou, and all those guys, but at least I'd like to go to one game there before they move. Only history here in Alabama is Auburn/Alabama football. Not so much the same.

[Viq]

I felt towards Fenway the way that Ceph feels towards The Stadium. Then I moved to Wisconsin. The HHH Dome is horrendous. Miller Park is ok, but it's a new ballpark that isn't as nice as Camden or PNC. Wrigley was surprisingly underwhelming. Then I moved back to New England, and Fenway just lights me up every time I walk in it now. No matter where my seats are, I'll always go in Gate A so that I can walk along the field from left to right, just to take in all of the green. I love looking at left field and thinking about the stories that my relatives have told me about Yaz. When I get over by the first base line, I can't help but think of Carlton Fisk and Game Six. It's hard not to wonder what it must have been like to watch Ted Williams everyday when I see the red seat in the bleachers. The enormity of the history at Fenway has really been something that I appreciate after seeing half a dozen or so ballparks outside of the north east.

I haven't been back to Yankee Stadium since I moved back to New England, but I feel like I would miss out on the feeling of appreciation that The Stadium could fill me with if I don't make it there this season.

[Reality]

we beat CC tonight for the first time in sox history at the Cell, and he only gave up 2 runs

it's like ... if guys like konerko and thome can start hitting, this team could be unstoppable late in the year if the pitching holds up

Floyd: 2.92 ERA
Danks: 2.94 ERA
Contreras: 3.17 ERA
Vazquez: 3.53 ERA
Buerhle: 5.27 ERA (Last outing: 6.2 IP, 7 H, 1 ER)

our bullpen is one of the best, if not the best, in the american league statistically (only a small handful of teams surround us right now)

god, if this team starts hitting, look out

oh, and Quentin went deep again (league leading 12 bombs so far)

[blister1]

Guys who walk more batters than they K won't pitch to the tune of a sub 3 ERA all year. He'll regress. Contreras and Vasquez can go lick a dick for not being able to handle the NY spotlight. The Sox would probably be leading the central if their offense wasn't so horrible though.

[Cephius]

Guys who walk more batters than they K won't pitch to the tune of a sub 3 ERA all year. He'll regress. Contreras and Vasquez can go lick a dick for not being able to handle the NY spotlight. The Sox would probably be leading the central if their offense wasn't so horrible though.

Eh you can pitch well and not strike anyone out. Just look at Wang, most wins over the last 3 years and only now has he started to develop a strike out pitch. WHIP is a better indication of how pitchers are doing, not their walk:K ratio.

And yes, Contreras and Vasquez can fall in line behind Kenny Rogers and Ted Lilly as pitchers who were terrible in NY and were magically rejuvenated after leaving

[Reality]

Guys who walk more batters than they K won't pitch to the tune of a sub 3 ERA all year. He'll regress. Contreras and Vasquez can go lick a dick for not being able to handle the NY spotlight. The Sox would probably be leading the central if their offense wasn't so horrible though.

uh, the sox are leading the central and are currently on a 6 game winning streak