MLB '08 Season Discussion

[Penthesilea]

Kelly Johnson is too streaky. He's too hot and cold. When he's hot, he's on. When he's cold, he doesn't know what a baseball looks like. That and he's not exactly a "Power outfielder" either. That doesn't solve a problem. It just pushes it on the backburner.

Pitching was our big need this offseason and we addressed it by getting Vazquez? The White Sox are thanking us for taking him off the payroll.

Well, we could possibly see a platoon in LF with Diaz and Johnson if they don't trade away Escobar and the situation I described happens.

[Melena]

actually you get a no decision if your closer walks 3 guys and gives up a grand slam since the runs will be charged to him, not your starter, but i'll assume you actually know that and was just blind your rant.

[Cephius]

actually you get a no decision if your closer walks 3 guys and gives up a grand slam since the runs will be charged to him, not your starter, but i'll assume you actually know that and was just blind your rant.

Granted, but it still "cost" the starter a "win" even though he didn't do anything. And that may be the difference between "Wow he won 20 games, what a pitcher!" and "Aw he only won 19 games. One more and he woulda been great!"

[fren.]

At least you didn't pay AJ Burnett 82m for 5 years...

The contract isn't crippling, it's 16mil per. The Braves attempted to blow everyone out of the water with 80mil and the Yanks countered, think of it this way; who would you rather have? Lowe or Burnett?

If Burnett's healthy he'll most likely be worth the contract the first two-three years. He has arguably the best fastball + curve combo in the majors. He just seems to suck balls when he's not motivated, now he's finally got the chance to compete (the Jays were out of the playoff race from Opening Day)

[Akiyama]

Looks like the deal isn't completely done with Atlanta for Furcal and he's in talks with LA. Thank goodness. Maybe he won't come back. D:

[Kyo]

Yeah we dont need him, what we need to do is sign peavy and Lowe.

[Akiyama]

Hell. I'd be glad with one of the two.

[Cephius]

The contract isn't crippling, it's 16mil per. The Braves attempted to blow everyone out of the water with 80mil and the Yanks countered, think of it this way; who would you rather have? Lowe or Burnett?

If Burnett's healthy he'll most likely be worth the contract the first two-three years. He has arguably the best fastball + curve combo in the majors. He just seems to suck balls when he's not motivated, now he's finally got the chance to compete (the Jays were out of the playoff race from Opening Day)

Rather have signed Sheets for 2 years TBH, you can argue that AJ has only had 2 good years, and both happens to be walk years. He breaks down a lot, and last year was the first time in forever that he threw more than 200 innings in a season. I know Sheets has been injured too, but I think he's the more consistent pitcher. Yankees already have an ace and a #2, I'd rather have a consistent #3 than someone who is wild up and down.

[Akiyama]

You'd rather have Sheets over Burnett? At least with AJ, you have a chance of him completing a full season. I'd argue that Sheets is more injury prone.

Also, the Braves wanted to blow everyone out with 80mil, so the Yanks and their oodles of money countered with 90mil. It's not that big of a deal. 80mil on Burnett is nothing compared to some of the other Free Agent signings so far.

[Kyo]

I think Peavy and Lowe are better than burnett, im not impressed by someone who's had two good years of 15 wins and 18 wins.

[Cephius]

Sheets' injuries have been freaky though. He had an ear infection, a hamstring injury, and then I think he had minor shoulder tendinitis last year.

AJ had tommy john surgery, and another elbow injury the same year that he got surgery. Was shut down another season because of arm soreness, and I think he missed time another season but I can't remember why...

I think you see my point, Burnett's injuries are way more pitching-related. And I don't like the idea of having him for 5 years... reminds me too much of Pavano ;_;

[Akiyama]

TBH, other than Lowe, there's not much out there that haven't had injury problems. I'd rather have a steady guy like Lowe than Burnett or Sheets, lol.

[fren.]

Rather have signed Sheets for 2 years TBH, you can argue that AJ has only had 2 good years, and both happens to be walk years. He breaks down a lot, and last year was the first time in forever that he threw more than 200 innings in a season.

They already went over Sheets' medical history and red flags went off (there's a quote out there that mentions it, too lazy to look) Trust me, if he was cleared they'd be all over it instead of waiting on Pettitte taking his sweet ass time.

Burnett hasn't been all that injury plagued since TJS. It's a risk, but if he's healthy it's a lethal rotation. I'm gonna get a stiffy watching three guys who can get it up to 97 routinely, Wang isn't a softosser either.

I think you see my point, Burnett's injuries are way more pitching-related. And I don't like the idea of having him for 5 years... reminds me too much of Pavano ;_;

It shouldn't. Pavano couldn't hold Burnett's jockstrap, in terms of performance and stuff. Burnett has some of the best pure stuff in the majors.

TBH, other than Lowe, there's not much out there that haven't had injury problems. I'd rather have a steady guy like Lowe than Burnett or Sheets, lol.

He's a ground ball machine, but he's 36 and his contract is gonna take him into his 40's. He had a good stint with the Dodgers, but I doubt he'll have the same sort of success in the AL East, Burnett's already battle tested.

Oh and for lolPeavy, his agent said this:

"Jake has a strong preference to stay in the National League. If Jake's ever going to accept anything to the American League – and I don't want this to be taken wrong – I can safely say that it's going to be the Yankees or Red Sox or maybe the Angels. Those teams are going to be in contention and are going to spend money. If there were circumstances where he would be asked to go to the AL, kicking and screaming, those are the three places."

That was last week, Padres CEO just said he'll be their opening day starter.

[Kyo]

TBH, other than Lowe, there's not much out there that haven't had injury problems. I'd rather have a steady guy like Lowe than Burnett or Sheets, lol.

Agreed and when he's on, he's devastating.

[Melena]

Granted, but it still "cost" the starter a "win" even though he didn't do anything. And that may be the difference between "Wow he won 20 games, what a pitcher!" and "Aw he only won 19 games. One more and he woulda been great!"

I dunno, I'd say this years NL Cy Young award winner debunks the 20 wins is a great year and below 20 is not. I see where your coming from, but it's a dumb argument. A shitty pitcher is not going to win 300 games. A decent pitcher is not going to win 300 games.

Take a look at these stats here.

Nolan Ryan Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

With the exception of his last year before he retired, not a single season with a 4.0 or higher ERA, and yet only two 20 win seasons. Going by your comments, it sounds like Nolan Ryan was only great two years out of his 20+ year career.

[Trichocyst]

Considering only 22 pitchers in the history of baseball have 300+ wins, I don't think it's such a bad benchmark just like 500+ home runs generally makes you a lock. Also courtesy of the Onion:

Tom Glavine Ominously Announces He Will Be Last 300-Game Winner

CHICAGO—Moments after the last out in his historic 300th pitching win, Mets ace Tom Glavine silenced a crowd of well-wishers by announcing in a cold, emotionless voice that he would be the last ever to win 300 games. "Make no mistake, after me, there will be no one else to win this many games as a pitcher. Ever," said Glavine in tones that froze the blood of all who heard it. "Randy Johnson will not recover from his injuries. [Mike] Mussina will not play, and perhaps not live, long enough. And C.C. Sabathia, I beg you—you are so young, with so much to live for. Do not dance with the devil by attempting to win 300 games now that Glavine has done so." Upon hearing Glavine's chilling declaration, top pitchers Andy Pettite, Barry Zito, and Tim Hudson announced they would retire at the end of the season.

[Akiyama]

Sure Lowe is 36 and his contract would take him to his 40s, but uh.. isn't Jamie Moyer like 46? Didn't he just sign a 2 year deal? Last I checked, 16-7 at that age is pretty damned good. Lowe could probably put up the same numbers, especially with his crazy ground ball rates. That and it's not like he's coming to be a #1 or #2. He'd be a 3/4 at best probably.

Also, yeah. I heard about the Peavy thing. That whole situation out there is crazy shit anyway. I think it sucks for him that he has to go through all this all because of the guy running the team is going through a divorce. Economical troubles suck.

And yeah... 20 wins is a great year, but 18 wins, an outstanding ERA, and a shit ton of strike-outs is not just a "decent" year, lol.

Hell. I think 300 wins is a bit too extreme for a benchmark. I think 275ish now would be pretty damned awesome. No one will ever get to where Maddux is though.

[Cephius]

I dunno, I'd say this years NL Cy Young award winner debunks the 20 wins is a great year and below 20 is not. I see where your coming from, but it's a dumb argument. A shitty pitcher is not going to win 300 games. A decent pitcher is not going to win 300 games.

Take a look at these stats here.

Nolan Ryan Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

With the exception of his last year before he retired, not a single season with a 4.0 or higher ERA, and yet only two 20 win seasons. Going by your comments, it sounds like Nolan Ryan was only great two years out of his 20+ year career.

Buh? I'm arguing that wins are a stupid stat to judge pitchers by. Your example of Nolan Ryan proves my point. Use WHIP, or k/9 innings, or OPS against, or practically any other pitching stat to judge a pitcher by...

[Kyo]

Mel obviously cant read.

[Melena]

Meh, I kinda misread you based off of your whole dur if he won one more game he'd have a great year thing, which most people don't think like. As someone else said, there's only a handful of people who have managed to hit 300 wins, so yea that's a suitable benchmark if your other numbers are a bit shaky, Just like 500 homeruns could offset a shaky batting average in terms of a hall of fame vote.