Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2)

[Septimus]

It's not about "they should've done this from the beginning" or whatever. I'm just upset because, though these changes are welcome, they're just not substantive enough to even talk about. These are the sorts of things that should be bullet points in the upgrade notes on the day of the upgrade. These aren't things that are going to get people excited/intrigued. These are things that deserve a collective shrug of approval at best.

So instead, they should just not have update notes except for big ones? Then everyone is going to bitch that Square is giving enough information about the updates. The last week and a half are when the big news generally hit, if people think that game-shaking news is going to happen before that, they are falling victims to their own impossible expectations.

So the moogles in Selbina + Mhaura are meant to encourage people to EXP at the low levels again?

Didnt SE kinda.... just.... released.... a NEW FUCKING EXPANSION catered so far towards alternative low level/mid level exp? (unless you count beastmen, gnoles and gnats as Merit mobs) The Moogles are overdue yes and the auto-sort function sounds like it will help console players tremendously but.... where is the incentive to USE the WoTG areas?

Because someone on his/her first or second job is going to have WotG access?

[Day]

Why are you acting like some players didn't? And that many players strongly argued against the idea for some of the reasons listed.

I'm not, not everyone is going to like every change, but you are acting like, "Oh I wont use this, I don't even know why they added it, Damn you SE breaking the game!!" When players have been asking for Moogles there since the damn dawn of time.

Furthermore on this same page people are saying that this update isn't even worth mentioning because the changes are so minimal. Which is it? Gamebreaking or Meh?

[byte]

Why are you acting like some players didn't? And that many players strongly argued against the idea for some of the reasons listed.

I'm not, not everyone is going to like every change, but you are acting like, "Oh I wont use this, I don't even know why they added it, Damn you SE breaking the game!!" When players have been asking for Moogles there since the damn dawn of time.

Furthermore on this same page people are saying that this update isn't even worth mentioning because the changes are so minimal. Which is it? Gamebreaking or Meh?

It's meh for old players because it isn't as useful to us now.

It's potentially damaging to new players who won't get the same experience that has hooked many of us for years to come.

It is VERY important the impact the game makes on new players. Such a delicate balance. A few off things could make them give up. By setting them small challenges early on like having to walk back home, it not only opens their eyes to the scale of the world but teaches them the patience FFXI will no doubt require.

[Day]

Why are you acting like some players didn't? And that many players strongly argued against the idea for some of the reasons listed.

I'm not, not everyone is going to like every change, but you are acting like, "Oh I wont use this, I don't even know why they added it, Damn you SE breaking the game!!" When players have been asking for Moogles there since the damn dawn of time.

Furthermore on this same page people are saying that this update isn't even worth mentioning because the changes are so minimal. Which is it? Gamebreaking or Meh?

It's meh for old players because it isn't as useful to us now.

It's potentially damaging to new players who won't get the same experience that has hooked many of us for years to come.

I very seriously doubt that a moogle in the Dunes is going to affect their experience in any kind of negative way. I'll stand corrected if someone quits because of the ease of changing jobs in the dunes.

[Purrrfect]

Running to and from the Dunes was one hell of a hassle but also a learning experience. This late in the game, most people have done it endlessly and as they opened up the outpost to level 10's there's little point in restricting it anymore.

If you can remember that far back, running through the highlands and dunes on your first job did teach you one hell of a lot about mobs, aggro, meds etc. Shows the game is ageing though.

qft

Unfortunately, all the "experienced" players now just get a friend to pl them, and in turn deprive the newbies of learning the lessons. Hence, we get the mass of sucktacular players that we have now. No one knows how to play their job anymore under 40 because "the pl will handle it", and then they get to gimp to 75 cuz they don't know any better. Thanks for fucking things up.^^

[nekura]

Aren't the Signet + multiple Sanction bonuses incentive enough to use the WotG areas at the lower levels? Refresh + Regen + extended food duration + EXP bonus if in a party with less than 6 members is pretty hot, but people will continue to grind out EXP in their usual spots simply because that's what they're familiar with, and newbies will go there because that's what everyone else is doing.

[ronin sparthos]

OK, while the Nomad Moogles in Selbina and Mhaura is nice and convenient, when I think back to leveling my 1st job it felt like an adventure going out to the Dunes leveling, unlocking sub job, going back to town selecting my sub and heading back to the dunes. It was a feeling of accomplishment the 1st time around. It gave the sense that the world was big and dangerous. I can understand them not wanting to change that experience for new players.

Pretty much completely agreed with this statement. Since SE adding this so late doesn't provide any benefits for me, I wouldn't even like to see it at all. Infact I'm somewhat annoyed they even added them.

This is how I see things going for new players now.. they go on with a lv1 subjob til lv20-30 because they never had to go back home to switch (Which means it's convenient to level said subjob). Then, older players will rip them and laugh at them. Then they'll quit. gg SE, way to encourage new players.

OP warps already provide you will close proximity moogles if you are an experienced player and there are also the areas outside wotg cities that dunes levels (Also moogle inside the cities there which is arguably not much further selbina/mhaura with be from the outside). So again, more options for an experienced player that has done this many times. There is no reason for them to add this now.

It amazes me that they are so stuck to new content ideas that they would go this far and break and potentially break the new player experience. I'm sure many of us on this board could come up with 100 interesting content ideas that wouldn't ruin the game. The developers are just tired.

Why are you acting like the players didn't request the moogles?

Its more the issue that this is 2-3years too late, most players are level 75 and have little use for moogles in said areas. Compounded with the fact that new zones were released with the potential to trump the dunes yet so far have been shown no attention.

Because someone on his/her first or second job is going to have WotG access?

The point was that the dunes are tired, qufim is tired and the whole concept at the dev table was to obviously create new zones with alternative themes to low level exp when WoTG was concieved. The problem is that there is no reason currently to bother yourself as a new player to go there and old players are stuck on the hamster wheel of dunes -> qufim -> jungles -> citadel -> desert.

If WoTG launched with the incentive ToAU did in regards to low level exp - the new players would buy the expansion and take the new route of EXP, finally putting the dunes to bed and moving the game on to better things. It'd even convince some old players tired of the same old, same old to level some lowbie jobs in WoTG and give new players an expierience of blazing a trail to high levels. When ToAU launched, how long did it take for everyone to abandon the Boyahda Tree, Moon, Bibiki, Uleguerand and Kuftal Tunnel?

Currently none of this in place so WoTG is one helluva nice place with no purpose other than campaign battles and campaign OPs. It seems silly because the expansion has the potential to put the status quo to bed and surpass ToAU while its at it.

At this point they could have made the WoTG areas instances and had you go back for campaign battles onry because the zones see little use compared to new zones released in CoP and ToAU.

[byte]

Why are you acting like some players didn't? And that many players strongly argued against the idea for some of the reasons listed.

I'm not, not everyone is going to like every change, but you are acting like, "Oh I wont use this, I don't even know why they added it, Damn you SE breaking the game!!" When players have been asking for Moogles there since the damn dawn of time.

Furthermore on this same page people are saying that this update isn't even worth mentioning because the changes are so minimal. Which is it? Gamebreaking or Meh?

It's meh for old players because it isn't as useful to us now.

It's potentially damaging to new players who won't get the same experience that has hooked many of us for years to come.

I very seriously doubt that a moogle in the Dunes is going to affect their experience in any kind of negative way. I'll stand corrected if someone quits because of the ease of changing jobs in the dunes.

lol... It's not a direct reason. But it's a thing that cheapens the experience. Why does there have to be direct reasons? I have played a lot of games with 1 small thing that pissed me off and it didn't make me stop. The experience of being a new player in Vana'diel is what people look back to and keeps them playing.

[Day]

Its more the issue that this is 2-3years too late, most players are level 75 and have little use for moogles in said areas. Compounded with the fact that new zones were released with the potential to trump the dunes yet so far have been shown no attention.

Better Nate than Lever.

[shukuffxi]

This update notice was the epitome of TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

Too late for what? Making the game better? I don't think you can be too late for that unless we all plan on quitting tomorrow (though I'm sure there are a few who will).

Seems more like 'Too late to impress me', which, frankly, isn't the point of every tweak we get and is a little self-absorbed. Part of the point of an update is to make the game more accessible and less, well, frustrating & tedious. Considering they've announced fixing 3 things we've bitched about audibly, you can't really call this futile, since it's fixing something that was (for the most part) needlessly restrictive. Whether you, personally use these is irrelevant, cuz it's pretty obvious most people will, even if you don't think they 'count.' Not everything's going to be a cum-blasting thrill ride of non-stop fun, and while there's nothing wrong with saying this should have been done earlier, there's a limit to how much you can reasonably shit on a win, because that's what any positive change is.


Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, this is less in defense of the update and more an attack on the people who I feel are currently trapped in and are slowly being crushed to death by a cave-in 5ft up their own asses (most likely caused by taking the trip up there in the first place).

You must be really bored to put all that into my mouth. I didn't say anything about quitting, or OMFG IT'S NOT AN UBBER SUPER UPDATE NOTICE. What I did say, it was too little, too late, sort of like Wafik's example a page back. Kind of like "We asked for these things 3+ years ago. Since then there are many more issues/things to fix/improve/implement than what SE decided was suddenly important after 3 years." Sort of like "Thanks for that heart transplant I needed, sadly, I passed away 5 years ago, but nice try."

To waste an update notice on it is ridiculous (seriously, whoever does the PR for FFXI is a feces throwing monkey), this type of thing should be in the update notes, on update day, like a nice little bonus. Seriously, out of a list of say Merit changes (SCH/DNC, or new merits, w/e), job enhancements, new avatars (one day!), some new type of event, pics of cool new crafted gear, introduction of new HNM (like they mentioned things for ToAU HNM in update notices), etc, the last thing people care about in an update notice is the crap they posted today. This update was worse than Fish Ranking update notices.

[edit] As for adding Nomad Moogles in Selbina/Mhaura finally... This has to have taken like what, 5 minutes to implement? This goes to show how little SE gives a crap about updating the game, they're just putting in what they hope is enough to keep people paying. It's difficult to imagine any other MMO goin "Hey, look, we copy/paste'd some code into 2 areas, and we're calling it a major part of this update" (I say "major" since they decided this was worthy of an update notice, soon we'll have update notices telling us they added words to the auto translate function).

[Kayos]

So the moogles in Selbina + Mhaura are meant to encourage people to EXP at the low levels again?

Didnt SE kinda.... just.... released.... a NEW FUCKING EXPANSION catered so far towards alternative low level/mid level exp? (unless you count beastmen, gnoles and gnats as Merit mobs) The Moogles are overdue yes and the auto-sort function sounds like it will help console players tremendously but.... where is the incentive to USE the WoTG areas?

What is this expansion you speak of?

So instead, they should just not have update notes except for big ones?

OR maybe they should ya know actually develop big things they can announce?

[ronin sparthos]

To waste an update notice on it is ridiculous (seriously, whoever does the PR for FFXI is a feces throwing monkey), this type of thing should be in the update notes, on update day, like a nice little bonus. Seriously, out of a list of say Merit changes (SCH/DNC, or new merits, w/e), job enhancements, new avatars (one day!), some new type of event, pics of cool new crafted gear, introduction of new HNM (like they mentioned things for ToAU HNM in update notices), etc, the last thing people care about in an update notice is the crap they posted today. This update was worse than Fish Ranking update notices.

Yeah they got everyone psyched up about Hydra.... that announcement went on about 11-12 pages with people scrambling to the camp to kill it... then SE gave everyone the real surprise.

Orobon Lure go?

[byte]

Why are you acting like some players didn't? And that many players strongly argued against the idea for some of the reasons listed.

I'm not, not everyone is going to like every change, but you are acting like, "Oh I wont use this, I don't even know why they added it, Damn you SE breaking the game!!" When players have been asking for Moogles there since the damn dawn of time.

Furthermore on this same page people are saying that this update isn't even worth mentioning because the changes are so minimal. Which is it? Gamebreaking or Meh?

It's meh for old players because it isn't as useful to us now.

It's potentially damaging to new players who won't get the same experience that has hooked many of us for years to come.

It is VERY important the impact the game makes on new players. Such a delicate balance. A few off things could make them give up. By setting them small challenges early on like having to walk back home, it not only opens their eyes to the scale of the world but teaches them the patience FFXI will no doubt require.

I found an article from a professional about what I was trying to explain. It relates to WoW but applies to all MMOs imo:

http://darklondon.wordpress.com/2007...tions-in-mmos/

[Therin]

I've never been a fan of the whole "They should have done it from the begining", but holy shit does this ever merit it.

Pretty funny statement tbh.

Therin:

Dude, lay off... you can't call others bad guys for using windower and all the add-ons they want when you use it yourself (even if you only use it for tparty) still doesn't make you a purist, if you were you wouldn't use it at all.

I'm pretty sure I never called any Windower users "bad guys," unless I read my own posts wrong. All that I said was that you can't complain about the update just because you're using a third-party add-on which gives you whatever is being implemented when the majority of the FFXI population DOESN'T have that option.

[byte]

I've never been a fan of the whole "They should have done it from the begining", but holy shit does this ever merit it.

Pretty funny statement tbh.

Therin:

Dude, lay off... you can't call others bad guys for using windower and all the add-ons they want when you use it yourself (even if you only use it for tparty) still doesn't make you a purist, if you were you wouldn't use it at all.

I'm pretty sure I never called any Windower users "bad guys," unless I read my own posts wrong. All that I said was that you can't complain about the update just because you're using a third-party add-on which gives you whatever is being implemented when the majority of the FFXI population DOESN'T have that option.

I'd really like to see some statistics for how many PC players actually use the "unofficial" windower. I don't know what people you play with but 99% of the people I know on FFXI use the windower.. I have no idea how you can say this is not the majority.

[Lyramion]

While I have a PC FFXi with windower I also have an xbox for relaxed couch adventures infronta my TV. I welcome the autosort greatly.


More moogles can never be a bad thing. OP stuff doesn´t affect me anymore.

[Lyriane]

Auto sort sucks! Goodbye free BS/KS/money drops from other people in meripo forgetting to clear space.

[Hyan]

I've never been a fan of the whole "They should have done it from the begining", but holy shit does this ever merit it.

Pretty funny statement tbh.

Therin:

Dude, lay off... you can't call others bad guys for using windower and all the add-ons they want when you use it yourself (even if you only use it for tparty) still doesn't make you a purist, if you were you wouldn't use it at all.

I'm pretty sure I never called any Windower users "bad guys," unless I read my own posts wrong. All that I said was that you can't complain about the update just because you're using a third-party add-on which gives you whatever is being implemented when the majority of the FFXI population DOESN'T have that option.

I'd really like to see some statistics for how many PC players actually use the "unofficial" windower. I don't know what people you play with but 99% of the people I know on FFXI use the windower.. I have no idea how you can say this is not the majority.

Majority doesnt use the additional plugins that come with it, though. Majority of JP's play on consoles, add in the xbox and ps users in the world and it's actually large % of the games population

[Toksyuryel]

Why are you acting like some players didn't? And that many players strongly argued against the idea for some of the reasons listed.

I'm not, not everyone is going to like every change, but you are acting like, "Oh I wont use this, I don't even know why they added it, Damn you SE breaking the game!!" When players have been asking for Moogles there since the damn dawn of time.

Furthermore on this same page people are saying that this update isn't even worth mentioning because the changes are so minimal. Which is it? Gamebreaking or Meh?

It's meh for old players because it isn't as useful to us now.

It's potentially damaging to new players who won't get the same experience that has hooked many of us for years to come.

It is VERY important the impact the game makes on new players. Such a delicate balance. A few off things could make them give up. By setting them small challenges early on like having to walk back home, it not only opens their eyes to the scale of the world but teaches them the patience FFXI will no doubt require.

I found an article from a professional about what I was trying to explain. It relates to WoW but applies to all MMOs imo:

http://darklondon.wordpress.com/2007...tions-in-mmos/

Holy shit that screenshot is fucked up. How the hell do people PLAY like that?

[Almalexia]

Why are you acting like some players didn't? And that many players strongly argued against the idea for some of the reasons listed.

I'm not, not everyone is going to like every change, but you are acting like, "Oh I wont use this, I don't even know why they added it, Damn you SE breaking the game!!" When players have been asking for Moogles there since the damn dawn of time.

Furthermore on this same page people are saying that this update isn't even worth mentioning because the changes are so minimal. Which is it? Gamebreaking or Meh?

It's meh for old players because it isn't as useful to us now.

It's potentially damaging to new players who won't get the same experience that has hooked many of us for years to come.

It is VERY important the impact the game makes on new players. Such a delicate balance. A few off things could make them give up. By setting them small challenges early on like having to walk back home, it not only opens their eyes to the scale of the world but teaches them the patience FFXI will no doubt require.

I found an article from a professional about what I was trying to explain. It relates to WoW but applies to all MMOs imo:

http://darklondon.wordpress.com/2007...tions-in-mmos/

Holy shit that screenshot is fucked up. How the hell do people PLAY like that?

Many people stop "playing" MMOs at a certain point in their characters' careers.