Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2)

[Xanthe]

I was under the impression most end-game PC users had gotten into the habit of pressing "CTRL-I, +, enter, escape"

I still do this now and then even though I use LL.

I still do this because LL doesn't actually auto-sort. It auto-stacks. Sometimes it helps to be looking at a sorted inventory.

[ronin sparthos]

How the hell they don't have their OWN forum, where there is communication, a back and forth with them, a place officially to post ideas, suggestions, and feel as if they company is LISTENING to you while taking your MONEY, is beyond understanding.

Maybe because they actually read some FFXI forums? Would you really want to sift through the massive amounts of complete fucking idiocy that gets dribbled onto internet forums by the hordes of 15-year olds who can barely complete a functioning sentence in any language if you were S-E? I would go batshit insane if I was the lowbie customer service drone who got stuck having to read through 2 million 'HAI GUYZ I THINK U SHUD MAEK A QUEST FOR RIDILL B/C TOO MANY BOTTTER LOLZ KTHXBAI' posts and murder everyone at the company.

They dont read forums actively, hell it looks at times as if they read bercus' carefully-prepared questions over a quick coffee break.

As a customer service drone, how hard is to read down a list of 'suggestions' and tally up what happens to be proposed most? It isnt rocket science, even if people some people 'speek leik dis and don kno wat dey doin' might have a viable proposal that 20 other people might also agree with. Not to mention for every idiotic suggestion, there are 2-3 with graphs, charts, whirlygigs and sprinkles complete with a finely prepared essay to square about why 'x' suggestion would work.

[nekura]

I was under the impression most end-game PC users had gotten into the habit of pressing "CTRL-I, +, enter, escape"

I still do this now and then even though I use LL.

I still do this because LL doesn't actually auto-sort. It auto-stacks. Sometimes it helps to be looking at a sorted inventory.

Ah crap, I forgot about that. >_> I'm not a crafter but when I gear up another job I tend to not sort my inventory afterwards so it's quicker to put everything back into my MH.

[The Blackrose]

I was under the impression most end-game PC users had gotten into the habit of pressing "CTRL-I, +, enter, escape"

I still do this now and then even though I use LL.

I still do this because LL doesn't actually auto-sort. It auto-stacks. Sometimes it helps to be looking at a sorted inventory.

Ah crap, I forgot about that. >_> I'm not a crafter but when I gear up another job I tend to not sort my inventory afterwards so it's quicker to put everything back into my MH.

I do it the opposite way with my MH so I can grab everything I need in one fell swoop.

Also, this news post just begs for the "About fucking time/took you long enough" posts.

[Akucaen]

The ONLY add-on I use is TParty, because it's the only one that I feel is even remotely necessary.

This will be an extremely welcome addition for me.

But wait. The official windower has it and you deem it not necessary; why is it welcomed now, again?

[Skjie]

I've never been a fan of the whole "They should have done it from the begining", but holy shit does this ever merit it.

Pretty funny statement tbh.

Therin:

Dude, lay off... you can't call others bad guys for using windower and all the add-ons they want when you use it yourself (even if you only use it for tparty) still doesn't make you a purist, if you were you wouldn't use it at all.

I'm pretty sure I never called any Windower users "bad guys," unless I read my own posts wrong. All that I said was that you can't complain about the update just because you're using a third-party add-on which gives you whatever is being implemented when the majority of the FFXI population DOESN'T have that option.

I'd really like to see some statistics for how many PC players actually use the "unofficial" windower. I don't know what people you play with but 99% of the people I know on FFXI use the windower.. I have no idea how you can say this is not the majority.

With the census still on the front page, it's amazing people try to say they're the majority when the numbers say we're (people will a job over lv70) less than 15%.

[Septimus]

Because someone on his/her first or second job is going to have WotG access?

The point was that the dunes are tired, qufim is tired and the whole concept at the dev table was to obviously create new zones with alternative themes to low level exp when WoTG was concieved. The problem is that there is no reason currently to bother yourself as a new player to go there and old players are stuck on the hamster wheel of dunes -> qufim -> jungles -> citadel -> desert.

If WoTG launched with the incentive ToAU did in regards to low level exp - the new players would buy the expansion and take the new route of EXP, finally putting the dunes to bed and moving the game on to better things. It'd even convince some old players tired of the same old, same old to level some lowbie jobs in WoTG and give new players an expierience of blazing a trail to high levels. When ToAU launched, how long did it take for everyone to abandon the Boyahda Tree, Moon, Bibiki, Uleguerand and Kuftal Tunnel?

Currently none of this in place so WoTG is one helluva nice place with no purpose other than campaign battles and campaign OPs. It seems silly because the expansion has the potential to put the status quo to bed and surpass ToAU while its at it.

At this point they could have made the WoTG areas instances and had you go back for campaign battles onry because the zones see little use compared to new zones released in CoP and ToAU.

So when a person first gets the game, he/she shouldn't bother to get level up and get a sub job, instead he/she should run to one of the zones near Jeuno to be able to go to the past? You are looking at it from the perspective of a level 75 player, imagine it as a level 10-20-30.

But the point is, Nomad Moogles in Selbina have nothing to do with WotG zones not having well-known XP camps. Nomad Moogles are not going to draw people from WotG camps to the dunes, it is just going to make it slightly more convenient for the people that are already there. If the devs wanted to draw people to WotG areas for low level XP, all they would have to do was add in a Sigil XP bonus like sanction- the fact that they did not do that leads me to believe that they weren't all that hot to get people out of the old zones.

So instead, they should just not have update notes except for big ones?

OR maybe they should ya know actually develop big things they can announce?

So they are supposed to come up with 8 earth shattering (number of update notes from the March update) changes in each update, 3-4 times per year? How exactly is that sustainable, from a man-power standpoint, and a creativity standpoint? People need to be more realistic in their expectations.

Not to mention that they did announce something already that is potentially huge in this update.

[Gergall]

With the ability to OP to the dunes at 10, I guess the only thing that the moogles are gonna be good for is raising dead party members

I can use the Outpost for that as well.

[Max™]

<Party> Man, if only we had (Insert job that would finish the party)
<You> Oh, I'll brb, I have (That exact job) at (This level +/- 1 or 2)
<Party> Yay!

It's just convenient, and nice not having to carry all the gear you're going to ding into, or say "brb, gonna run to the OP, run to my MH, grab stuff, be several zones away, and then run back".

[ronin sparthos]

So when a person first gets the game, he/she shouldn't bother to get level up and get a sub job, instead he/she should run to one of the zones near Jeuno to be able to go to the past? You are looking at it from the perspective of a level 75 player, imagine it as a level 10-20-30.

But the point is, Nomad Moogles in Selbina have nothing to do with WotG zones not having well-known XP camps. Nomad Moogles are not going to draw people from WotG camps to the dunes, it is just going to make it slightly more convenient for the people that are already there. If the devs wanted to draw people to WotG areas for low level XP, all they would have to do was add in a Sigil XP bonus like sanction- the fact that they did not do that leads me to believe that they weren't all that hot to get people out of the old zones.

The way they have the new zones setup, they presented these areas as either alternates for 75s or altogether a new route of EXP for new players because otherwise there is absolutely no reason to touch most of the monsters in the past. ToAU was presented as 50+ content, the lower level monsters in WotG indicate to me that they desired people to use those areas as alternatives of some sort. It needs work is obvious.

My point isnt really the fact of replacing the dunes per se since the more feasible camps in WoTG start at 21-22 with lycopodium camps in the 3 [S] areas around Jeuno which also happens to be the same level you'd first hit Jeuno anyways. That doesnt seem too much a stretch for the new player though the incentive to go there would have to be EXP bonuses like you stated or something similar. (Pixies just arent enough sadly~) The roadwork for a working alternative 18-50ish is already there, it just needs to be smoothed out and presented clearly. Most of the camps in WotG are not labor intensive to get to once you've got the ball rolling. (and the chocobos active...)

Endgame partying is a whole other story.

[Kayos]

So they are supposed to come up with 8 earth shattering (number of update notes from the March update) changes in each update, 3-4 times per year?

Who is asking for 8 earth shattering updates per year? I just want game develpment that is actually worth talking about. I don't even remember what HNM are since all the ones in the game currently are a joke (obviously with the exception of broken ones). We should rename them all to just regular NMs. Wouldn't take much to add 2-3 that are harder then the current batch and actually give them useful drops. I am sure this would make a sizable portion of endgame players very happy if they did it. (inc the useless argument about how the majority of the playerbase is under 50 and doesn't wan't HNM etc...)

Edit: and I won't even start on the WoTG expansion...

[Lordwafik]

The people attacking my "too little too late" comment saying it personally affects me or something, no, reason I say it is because the huge majority of people asked this 2 years ago at least, 3-4 probably closer to it, the frustration comes from "What took you guys so long?" and obviously we'll get no answer to that question. This is more frustrating to me than AV

[Kyreth]

It amazes me that they are so stuck to new content ideas that they would go this far and potentially break the new player experience. I'm sure many of us on this board could come up with at least 100 interesting content ideas that wouldn't ruin the game. The developers are just tired.

Wait a second. You're considering a Moogle that lets a newbie swap jobs....game-breaking?

/facepalm

All this stuff is the results of listening to constant ranting and raving from the sea of piss that is the Internet fanbase. (I've often wondered what the JP equivalent to BG, or heaven help us ZAM is.)

This is S-E. Their dev team's mascot is a Slowpoke named Sage. Yes, the board could come up with a 100 great ideas, but trying sorting them diamonds out of the perpetual shitstorm. Hell, look at people QQing over a few Nomad Moogles.

You know what my last Valkrum PT had? One guy with no SJ, three that didn't even know what Jeuno is and one person who hadn't been out of Valkrum since 12th level. He was 18th. They weren't bad players, just newbie ones...and Valkrum can be as much of a trap getting out of as it can be a pain getting to, if you're Home Pointed there.

If nothing else, the Nomad Moogle means they can swap to a level 1 job and blood-warp or make the run back to their home town without losing a level or two trying and deleting FFXI out of frustration.

[Trigun]

I find this update news thread shallow and pedantic.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...er_Griffin.jpg

...

[Kaslo]

The way they have the new zones setup, they presented these areas as either alternates for 75s or altogether a new route of EXP for new players because otherwise there is absolutely no reason to touch most of the monsters in the past. ToAU was presented as 50+ content, the lower level monsters in WotG indicate to me that they desired people to use those areas as alternatives of some sort. It needs work is obvious.

My point isnt really the fact of replacing the dunes per se since the more feasible camps in WoTG start at 21-22 with lycopodium camps in the 3 [S] areas around Jeuno which also happens to be the same level you'd first hit Jeuno anyways. That doesnt seem too much a stretch for the new player though the incentive to go there would have to be EXP bonuses like you stated or something similar. (Pixies just arent enough sadly~) The roadwork for a working alternative 18-50ish is already there, it just needs to be smoothed out and presented clearly. Most of the camps in WotG are not labor intensive to get to once you've got the ball rolling. (and the chocobos active...)

Endgame partying is a whole other story.

Except when you think about it, WOTG design is pretty absurd. There are great low level camps (pre-30) but to get signed up for a nation (including the walk) is worse than the jeuno walk for a low level player. If they really wanted WOTG to be inclusive of low level players they would have made the starting zones maws active from the beginning not the jeuno ones.

[shukuffxi]

How the hell they don't have their OWN forum, where there is communication, a back and forth with them, a place officially to post ideas, suggestions, and feel as if they company is LISTENING to you while taking your MONEY, is beyond understanding.

Maybe because they actually read some FFXI forums? Would you really want to sift through the massive amounts of complete fucking idiocy that gets dribbled onto internet forums by the hordes of 15-year olds who can barely complete a functioning sentence in any language if you were S-E? I would go batshit insane if I was the lowbie customer service drone who got stuck having to read through 2 million 'HAI GUYZ I THINK U SHUD MAEK A QUEST FOR RIDILL B/C TOO MANY BOTTTER LOLZ KTHXBAI' posts and murder everyone at the company.

One of the very first things any MMO company should do is have a real method of communication with it's playerbase. Usually, this is usually a forum (In SE's case, log into POL, then go to their suggest box thingie, it's a pain in the ass to do), let it be like Alla, or wherever, make a few forums, have one guy look over it, as part of his job. Tell the devs to spend 15 minutes every week taking a look, because it seems SE's devs have no clue what's going on.

Every month or two, have admin started threads, or preferably, by the devs, with specific questions/poles. "Which event do you like more: Dynamis, Limbus or Salvage, and why?" Let people pick one of the three as an answer, and post the reasons they like it. Things like this. They don't have to read every Tom, Dick and Harry goin "I need a quest that takes 30 minutes that gives me a Ridill" thread, but overly simple things like this would put SE more in touch with the real, current, wants and desires of their playerbase, which it is in their best interest to keep happy, since we're keeping their wallets full of cash.

Tbh, I really wish we had that here, have polls like that (not just normal threads), and have someone here make sure someone at SE takes notice, since we know that someone from SE has been in contact with the forum folks. Make sure they're properly moderated, no shit about random drama. Ask any politician/company that has a product they're selling/etc "Hey, do you want tons of detailed, free, polling on your product?" and you'd probably receive a resounding "God yes!" Didn't otherWiki have some deal where they'd post polls or something, or am I remembering wrong? This was a while back now.

As to "maybe they read FFXI forums!" and, yes, they've stated several times they have a person who does that, there are only a few things I can extrapolate from this: 1) Who ever is doing it is grossly incompetent 2) There is no such person 3) He's doing his job browsing and reporting, and SE is ignoring them.

[zoobernut]

The way they have the new zones setup, they presented these areas as either alternates for 75s or altogether a new route of EXP for new players because otherwise there is absolutely no reason to touch most of the monsters in the past. ToAU was presented as 50+ content, the lower level monsters in WotG indicate to me that they desired people to use those areas as alternatives of some sort. It needs work is obvious.

My point isnt really the fact of replacing the dunes per se since the more feasible camps in WoTG start at 21-22 with lycopodium camps in the 3 [S] areas around Jeuno which also happens to be the same level you'd first hit Jeuno anyways. That doesnt seem too much a stretch for the new player though the incentive to go there would have to be EXP bonuses like you stated or something similar. (Pixies just arent enough sadly~) The roadwork for a working alternative 18-50ish is already there, it just needs to be smoothed out and presented clearly. Most of the camps in WotG are not labor intensive to get to once you've got the ball rolling. (and the chocobos active...)

Endgame partying is a whole other story.

Except when you think about it, WOTG design is pretty absurd. There are great low level camps (pre-30) but to get signed up for a nation (including the walk) is worse than the jeuno walk for a low level player. If they really wanted WOTG to be inclusive of low level players they would have made the starting zones maws active from the beginning not the jeuno ones.

Correct me if I am wrong because I have not entered the WoTG areas but from peoples descriptions it does sound like the whole expansion is backwards in the sense that in most expansions when they add new areas the ones you enter first or get to early on are lower levels and they increase in level as you venture further away. In WoTG it sounds like you enter into some high level areas right away from the Maws and there are lower level areas farther away from where you start out.

[#686578]

The way they have the new zones setup, they presented these areas as either alternates for 75s or altogether a new route of EXP for new players because otherwise there is absolutely no reason to touch most of the monsters in the past. ToAU was presented as 50+ content, the lower level monsters in WotG indicate to me that they desired people to use those areas as alternatives of some sort. It needs work is obvious.

My point isnt really the fact of replacing the dunes per se since the more feasible camps in WoTG start at 21-22 with lycopodium camps in the 3 [S] areas around Jeuno which also happens to be the same level you'd first hit Jeuno anyways. That doesnt seem too much a stretch for the new player though the incentive to go there would have to be EXP bonuses like you stated or something similar. (Pixies just arent enough sadly~) The roadwork for a working alternative 18-50ish is already there, it just needs to be smoothed out and presented clearly. Most of the camps in WotG are not labor intensive to get to once you've got the ball rolling. (and the chocobos active...)

Endgame partying is a whole other story.

Except when you think about it, WOTG design is pretty absurd. There are great low level camps (pre-30) but to get signed up for a nation (including the walk) is worse than the jeuno walk for a low level player. If they really wanted WOTG to be inclusive of low level players they would have made the starting zones maws active from the beginning not the jeuno ones.

Correct me if I am wrong because I have not entered the WoTG areas but from peoples descriptions it does sound like the whole expansion is backwards in the sense that in most expansions when they add new areas the ones you enter first or get to early on are lower levels and they increase in level as you venture further away. In WoTG it sounds like you enter into some high level areas right away from the Maws and there are lower level areas farther away from where you start out.

Mismatch of correct, and a little complicated. You do indeed start out where you'll get aggro even at 75, and when you're in the zone outside of you're nation you'll find mobs you can exp on in early early levels (10 and below I believe? I never tried it below 10). However there are many zones where it's really fuckin' weird where it's more like high level mobs mixed with really low level mobs.

[Imitarate]

http://home.comcast.net/~crayland/cablebigcostume15.jpg > http://www.sciencebyjones.com/Firce_...er_drawing.gif

[zoobernut]

[quote=#686578]

The way they have the new zones setup, they presented these areas as either alternates for 75s or altogether a new route of EXP for new players because otherwise there is absolutely no reason to touch most of the monsters in the past. ToAU was presented as 50+ content, the lower level monsters in WotG indicate to me that they desired people to use those areas as alternatives of some sort. It needs work is obvious.

My point isnt really the fact of replacing the dunes per se since the more feasible camps in WoTG start at 21-22 with lycopodium camps in the 3 [S] areas around Jeuno which also happens to be the same level you'd first hit Jeuno anyways. That doesnt seem too much a stretch for the new player though the incentive to go there would have to be EXP bonuses like you stated or something similar. (Pixies just arent enough sadly~) The roadwork for a working alternative 18-50ish is already there, it just needs to be smoothed out and presented clearly. Most of the camps in WotG are not labor intensive to get to once you've got the ball rolling. (and the chocobos active...)

Endgame partying is a whole other story.

Except when you think about it, WOTG design is pretty absurd. There are great low level camps (pre-30) but to get signed up for a nation (including the walk) is worse than the jeuno walk for a low level player. If they really wanted WOTG to be inclusive of low level players they would have made the starting zones maws active from the beginning not the jeuno ones.

Correct me if I am wrong because I have not entered the WoTG areas but from peoples descriptions it does sound like the whole expansion is backwards in the sense that in most expansions when they add new areas the ones you enter first or get to early on are lower levels and they increase in level as you venture further away. In WoTG it sounds like you enter into some high level areas right away from the Maws and there are lower level areas farther away from where you start out.

Mismatch of correct, and a little complicated. You do indeed start out where you'll get aggro even at 75, and when you're in the zone outside of you're nation you'll find mobs you can exp on in early early levels (10 and below I believe? I never tried it below 10). However there are many zones where it's really fuckin' weird where it's more like high level mobs mixed with really low level mobs.[/quote:3jppi533]

Thats what I thought and it makes me feel like maybe if they reversed it or made the monster distribution make a little bit more sense in WoTG it might be more appealing?