Tomahawk

[#686578]

Not hate, claim

good tanks.

[chapstick]

What's the "range" on Tomahawk, can it be fired while a Wyrm is flying?

Even if not, can probably time it so it hits right before it takes off I guess.

[Kaylia]

Because it takes a full alliance to kill Tiamat, right? The majority of our Tiamat kills in FM were with 8-12 people. Not 34 minute kills, but still under 60 minutes from 100% - 0% with 2 full parties (tank and blm). If needed the WAR can make his own short bus party and throw the tomahawk as available.

And yes, Tomahawk is 3 min recast, 30/45/60 second duration, just like Angon.

If the alliance is not full, then the "swapping" argument make no sense. If the war only have a single jobs or shitty job, than do it ffs, but leveling another job might be a better for him than pretending you can still get away with a single job in every scenario.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Angon and Jumps as well as other direct target JA work on flying wyrms, I don't see why Tomahawk can't.

[Max™]

Eh, I admit War isn't the best for all situations, sadly, but leveling another job isn't my thing... so for me it's great news that it affects magic defense as well.

Some people don't want to have another job they can get asked to use.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Besides WC what else do usually WARs unlock for group 2 merits? Savagery seems kinda lame

[Max™]

Well, I hadn't done anything but capped WC because Tomahawk was of such limited usefulness I doubted I'd even remember to carry tomahawks on me, knowing that it will help out the mages I've got it unlocked and will be going 3/3 cause yeah... Savagery is cool when you're at 170% TP with Mbhuj for Steel and remember to hit Warcry, have Savagery, and Warcry is up.

[Kaeko]

I thought it was physically impossible to down Tiamat in less than ~34 minutes due to 10,000 damage maximum per flight?

Unless you're talking about using a lot of SAM/THF or Kraken damage while on the ground, but you said no zerging.

If you do nuke in air only, the 'cap' is about 34 minutes since the max you can do in the air is 10,000 per flight - at 100,000 ish HP excluding natural regen, that's about 10-11 flights. At 2 minute ground phases then shorten 1-1.5 minute air phases (early grounding if you hit damage cap), it's about mid-30 minutes. This is only if you choose to do air damage only. Since in a BLM nuke strategy, you have to rest for MP at some point to spam so hard in air, it figures you'd just take the ground phase off to rest, so it's a pretty good and easy to use strategy.

You can definitely go less than 30 minutes if you do some form of DD on the ground... like BLM in air switch in SMN for ground phase (if you're continuing some type of TP limitation strategy), or the fastest kills involve a lot of melee on ground.

As far as Tomahawk in this strategy, it would definitely allow you to have less BLMs for speedy kills. WAR/NIN is also good for like add control (kite away despawn corse adds).

[Kaylia]

Besides WC what else do usually WARs unlock for group 2 merits? Savagery seems kinda lame

Savagery isn't bad. Giving 30tp for 30sec (or 40sec if really like macro) to your whole team is probably the best increase in damage you can get from this category. I like it because it's passive, and you don't have to bother with a new JA to trigger it.

Warrior's charge is nice for 300tp WS and the occasional epeen screenshot attempt, but I don't think you will benefit much from a 10 minute recast instead of 15. The animation is long and lock your character, and I tend to forget to use it when recast is back up. It would be much better if you could put 2-3 more merit in it and drop the recast to something really low

Tomahawk is useful, but still not that great unless you plan to use it for something specific. Level 3 merits could be interesting if there was more tp burnable HNM with a dmg reduction. (most of them have a straigth damage reduction, and tomahawk doesnt work against it). Einherjar nm, besieged nm, campaign nm...etc? Does it works against any of those?

Personally, I went 1 warrior's charge, 3 savagery and 2 tomahawks (45 sec is going to be long enough for almost any fight where you will use it. I would consider dropping savagery by 1 if there is more tp burnable hnm I was fighting, but I don't know any.

As far as Tomahawk in this strategy, it would definitely allow you to have less BLMs for speedy kills. WAR/NIN is also good for like add control (kite away despawn corse adds).

Not that outrunning corse is hard (always did it on blm before), but what advantage war have over any jobs in this scenario? No healing, less add management skill if you try to to kite away all 3 (and one despawn/respawn early), no healing, no movement speed gears

[Kaeko]

Corse stop to cast spells. When you pull, they immediately cast so you get a head start. The most important thing is that whatever you use to pull genreates enough hate such that when it runs by the mages, the /healing action doesn't draw hate (if this happens, it will run back to the mage, not despawn). Running in and pulling a Corse with Provoke then running off while it casts is usually good enough.

I personally think THF is the best spot for these corse pulls since you gotta have TH at the end anyways and you get some hate shifting tools. I can see tomahawk being useful in larger groups or WAR onlys though.

[Thris]

The range is about 1/2 that of provoke.

[Max™]

Wait, does Savagery give the TP bonus to everyone?

Hmmm, REALLY need to test that now huh.

I thought it was TP bonus for me from my Warcry, and 1/2 from someone elses Warcry that is active on me.

I always have my war mask on me anyway (one of my alt WS macros uses it for the Dex, lolno-nhead) so I macro it in for Warcry.

Thought the head was more than just a 10 second boost, cause I try to stagger Warcry/Zerk/Meditate when I merit, so I can get a meditate during warcry while zerk is down for two WSes with warcry up (warcry > WS > Med > WS) to try and keep the average damage up.

[Kaylia]

Corse stop to cast spells. When you pull, they immediately cast so you get a head start. The most important thing is that whatever you use to pull genreates enough hate such that when it runs by the mages, the /healing action doesn't draw hate (if this happens, it will run back to the mage, not despawn). Running in and pulling a Corse with Provoke then running off while it casts is usually good enough.

Well, it would be better to simply disband from the alliance if you're pulling stuff. Best way to make sure no one get hate resting.

The problem I was talking about is when 1-2 despawn while you're training them away, but 3rd one stay on you. War can train fine, but without speed+ gears, healing and poor defensive ability, they might end up requiring someone else help.

Wait, does Savagery give the TP bonus to everyone?

Hmmm, REALLY need to test that now huh.

I thought it was TP bonus for me from my Warcry, and 1/2 from someone elses Warcry that is active on me.

I always have my war mask on me anyway (one of my alt WS macros uses it for the Dex, lolno-nhead) so I macro it in for Warcry.

Thought the head was more than just a 10 second boost, cause I try to stagger Warcry/Zerk/Meditate when I merit, so I can get a meditate during warcry while zerk is down for two WSes with warcry up (warcry > WS > Med > WS) to try and keep the average damage up.

According to the wiki, other people receive "1/2 of the tp bonus".
Do you get the +30tp bonus when you're under the influence of someone else warcry?

I will go test it later if no one can answer for sure, because I'm getting contradicting info.

[orson]

WC is a big addition to damage if you're using 2 handed weapons. Usually what I do is have it in my WS macro. If you're using dual wield Rampage is already 6 hits thus WC is a very low damage increase. It's basically a no brainer though outta all 4 cat2 JSM it's the one to max. The others are situational and basically you'd have to choose yourself Tomahawk is damn good for Einherjar, Savagery is sorta meh but it'll probably increase your damage a bit, and aggressive aim lol let's not go there.

[Max™]

Aggressive Aim was great so you could tell people "without it, how the fuck are you supposed to hit shit with your bomb core?"

THANKS FOR RUINING THE JOKE SE!

[Kaylia]

Wait, does Savagery give the TP bonus to everyone?

Hmmm, REALLY need to test that now huh.

I tested Savagery earlier using spirith within, and wiki definition is correct. Other people will get 1/2 of your warcry tp bonus.

Havent checked the opposite scenario when you get hit by other people warcry, but I doubt it give a tp bonus.

[Max™]

Wait, does Savagery give the TP bonus to everyone?

Hmmm, REALLY need to test that now huh.

I tested Savagery earlier using spirith within, and wiki definition is correct. Other people will get 1/2 of your warcry tp bonus.

Havent checked the opposite scenario when you get hit by other people warcry, but I doubt it give a tp bonus.

I'll finish this partial merit I have tomorrow and test it out.

[Ramses]

Wait wait...chariots have physical damage reduction? I used tomahawk many times, but never noticed any differences. If they have one, I supose it would be something small (20% to 15%) or something.

Never had the chance to test it on wyrm, but I can't see its usefulness unless you're zerging one. Bringing a war in aoe range to increase magic damage by ~12% doesn't look like a good deal, when you could simply have a 5th blm or another drk instead.

For temperance, you don't want to fight it on blunt modes, and being able to hit for 15dmg (or nuke for 150dmg) isn't that great, especially when its 15-45sec/3minutes, and you could equip joyeuse instead.


I'm not saying tomahawk is awful, I actually use it in certain situation (fighting elemental), or any time I encounter a mobs with resist, but it's not that great either for endgame.

I don't know what exact sort of damage reduction the chariots have, but whatever it is reduces Souleater damage.

If I'm understanding you correctly, it is not souleater resistance. If he is doing more damage than he is getting back from blood weapon, than it is BW resistance. Blood weapon is magic damage so in your scenario the chariot has magic resistance, not physical.

[Rasantath]

Warrior's charge is nice for 300tp WS and the occasional epeen screenshot attempt, but I don't think you will benefit much from a 10 minute recast instead of 15. The animation is long and lock your character, and I tend to forget to use it when recast is back up. It would be much better if you could put 2-3 more merit in it and drop the recast to something really low

SE posted their update notice after you wrote this, but with the new category 2 merit limit of 5 per merit and 10 in the category, this can now be lowered to 2:30 (when that update hits).

also, savagery level 5, for a 50tp bonus will be nice. can pull off a "300tp" SC at 150TP with a martial bhuj.

[Max™]

5 Minute Warrior's Charge, and I didn't get a chance to merit Savagery once yet to see if other people's warcry gives me TP bonus yet. T.T