Haircut question

[Zoot]

Being a waitress was probably the most difficult job I ever had. I only took it on to repay a debt I owed, because I heard it was good money, and it was. But dammit if that job wasn't the most stressful, nerve wrecking and unpredictable job I have ever had.

You don't know embarassment until you drop a tray full of food on someone's feet and your manager yells at you in front of the entire restaurant, or some portly and drunk fifty year old won't stop hitting on you, or some customer chews you out to your boss because you upset them over an issue that was entirely not your fault (food cooked wrong, credit card machine acts up and you can't process the bill, there was too much ice in my drink). Being not a social creature such as I am, I also found having to smile and make friendly with people, on your feet, while also remembering orders correctly and sometimes carrying out other people's orders food on a shift that could potentially be twelve hours long if someone called in exhausting.

As a result, I am very forgiving of waiters and waitresses at restaurants as long as I see that they are trying to do things right. I think everyone who does not tip and has never worked this job should be forced to work a week in this service, which is usually a means of survival for college kids because it's the type of job that has high turnover and can work into your school schedule.

[layoneil]

I think the most insulting thing as a customer is the places that automatically add in an 18% or 20% tip. Why not just charge more for the service?

for a group of say 10 people at a restaurant, how is this bill

$50 - appetizers
$200 - entrees
$50 - drinks
$60 - service charge

different from this bill

$60 - appetizers
$240 - entrees
$60 - drinks

if you can add you'll know it's the same thing. main difference is, one is more truthful about what you're paying for and the other isn't. so you're insulted because they're not hiding the truth from you?

If they think you are only worth $2.15 an hour, what does that tell you?

it tells you that's what the profession is like in the area. you can't competitively run a business where every restaurant pays $2-$3 an hr for their staff and you decide you're going to pay $8-$10 an hr.

if you act counter to expected societal norms expect negative reactions.

[TacoTaru]

If they think you are only worth $2.15 an hour, what does that tell you?

it tells you that's what the profession is like in the area. you can't competitively run a business where every restaurant pays $2-$3 an hr for their staff and you decide you're going to pay $8-$10 an hr.

if you act counter to expected societal norms expect negative reactions.

I think the point trying to be made is, it's not hard to get a job at Taco Bell, McDonald's, insert random name of any other chain fast food. By choosing not to go to one of those places and have a steady income and choosing to go into waiter/waitressing, you take the gamble on "good money". So when you don't get good money, there really is no right to bitch because you passed up steady higher paying jobs to roll the dice on good tip money.

[Seraph]

If they think you are only worth $2.15 an hour, what does that tell you?

it tells you that's what the profession is like in the area. you can't competitively run a business where every restaurant pays $2-$3 an hr for their staff and you decide you're going to pay $8-$10 an hr.

if you act counter to expected societal norms expect negative reactions.

I think the point trying to be made is, it's not hard to get a job at Taco Bell, McDonald's, insert random name of any other chain fast food. By choosing not to go to one of those places and have a steady income and choosing to go into waiter/waitressing, you take the gamble on "good money". So when you don't get good money, there really is no right to bitch because you passed up steady higher paying jobs to roll the dice on good tip money.

Exactly. I am by no means trying to downtalk waiters/waitresses. The problem I have is that tipping, by nature, is supposed to be optional. When people start to suggest it isn't, or try to force it to not be, I have a huge problem with that.

for a group of say 10 people at a restaurant, how is this bill

$50 - appetizers
$200 - entrees
$50 - drinks
$60 - service charge

different from this bill

$60 - appetizers
$240 - entrees
$60 - drinks

if you can add you'll know it's the same thing. main difference is, one is more truthful about what you're paying for and the other isn't. so you're insulted because they're not hiding the truth from you?

The difference is that now it is a tax, and not a tip. It is an 'inconvience tax', because servering large parties is difficult. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally agree that with a party that large there should be an acceptable tip to go along with it. However, the resturants that take it upon themselves to tell me what an acceptable level to tip is, and automatically put it on my bill, can go to hell. No resturant is that good, and when I see this done, I make it a point to make them take the mandatory tip off the bill, so I can replace it with one of my choosing. I have done this twice, and once the final tip was higher than the forced amount, once the tip was lower.

Imagine if the supermarkets started adding an 18% additional charge if you purchased more than 7 items because it was harder to check you out. People would be furious. I realize it's not exactly the same, but the same idea applies. Most buisness give you a discount for an increased level of purchase, but resturants essentially try to punish you for it.

[Jefe]

If they think you are only worth $2.15 an hour, what does that tell you?

it tells you that's what the profession is like in the area. you can't competitively run a business where every restaurant pays $2-$3 an hr for their staff and you decide you're going to pay $8-$10 an hr.

if you act counter to expected societal norms expect negative reactions.

I think the point trying to be made is, it's not hard to get a job at Taco Bell, McDonald's, insert random name of any other chain fast food. By choosing not to go to one of those places and have a steady income and choosing to go into waiter/waitressing, you take the gamble on "good money". So when you don't get good money, there really is no right to bitch because you passed up steady higher paying jobs to roll the dice on good tip money.

Agreed.

[layoneil]

The difference is that now it is a tax, and not a tip. It is an 'inconvience tax', because servering large parties is difficult. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally agree that with a party that large there should be an acceptable tip to go along with it. However, the resturants that take it upon themselves to tell me what an acceptable level to tip is, and automatically put it on my bill, can go to hell. No resturant is that good, and when I see this done, I make it a point to make them take the mandatory tip off the bill, so I can replace it with one of my choosing. I have done this twice, and once the final tip was higher than the forced amount, once the tip was lower.

you missed the point, you said

Why not just charge more for the service?

and that's exactly what they are doing. at a certain point, it does stop becoming a tip and it becomes necessary to charge more for the service.

and in all those restaurants you are allowed to tip on top of the service charge. it's just the semantics of the words you're using to label the fee (tip, gratuity, service charge, etc).

how do you at the same time think restaurants should just charge more for the service but complain when they decide to charge more for the service?

how do you claim that employees should be upset at their employers and not the customer but when the employer actually puts in clauses to protect the employees, the employers are now at fault?

Imagine if the supermarkets started adding an 18% additional charge if you purchased more than 7 items because it was harder to check you out. People would be furious. I realize it's not exactly the same, but the same idea applies. Most buisness give you a discount for an increased level of purchase, but resturants essentially try to punish you for it.

if every supermarket did it, guess what, you'd be okay with it. in certain parts of Asia, restaurants don't have napkins or tissues, you bring your own and if you ask them for it, they can and often do charge you on your bill.

and you're misrepresenting the case a little bit. 5 tables of 2 waited on by 5 different people purchase about the same amount of meals as 1 table of 10 waited on by 1 person. you're not actually increasing the level of purchase like you can at a supermarket when 1 guy can buy $10 worth of groceries and another guy can buy $200 worth.

[Anyway]

I'm a waiter. NJ servers get 2.13 an hour. If you don't tip, I WILL call you a cheap asshole.

[Dmitry]

The last time I got my haircut, I tipped like $6 or so since I knew the girl doing it and she was pretty hot.

[tyven]

I'm a waiter. NJ servers get 2.13 an hour. If you don't tip, I WILL call you a cheap asshole.

2.13 here too

18% auto gratuity for parties of 8 or more seems to be the industry standard here as well and its not uncommon to see people leave more on top of it either as 20% seems to be the norm around here.

[Vuitton]

I'm weary of actually tipping in sit down restaurant for one reason, and that is the income for waiters/waitress is not always that bad (bad referring to under minimum wage and relying on tips to make it up). I had a summer class laster year with a friend I hadn't seen since high school and he was working at some steak house making $8-something and hour + tips. Soon after that another friend of mine got a job at a restaurant serving making $6 something + tips. After that I've been much more stingy and I normally only tip in restaurants now if I have great or exceptional service; otherwise, I just let my fiancee cover it as she tips no matter how the service is.

Hair stylist are the only people I tip 100% of the time.

$6 and $8 an hour is NOTHING. How can you live off of that? You expect people to pay rent, bills, gas, food, ect. off of $8/hour? Yeah its "great money" for a high school student, but you know its not gonna cut it when they move out of mom and dad's home.

I am glad I am not your fiancee. I would be embarassed to ever go out to eat with you. I care too much about my appearance physically and socially. Workers remember who the cheap ass is and they'll treat you like shit the next time you come around, because who cares how they treat you because you're a cheap ass. They'd probably ask you to leave rather than seat you if they could because you are a waste of their time.

The person who said going against the norms produces negative reactions is absolutely correct. The norm is to tip and if you don't you'll get it back to you in horrible service. I can understand not tipping for horrible service, but all other situations deserve one.

The bartender WILL remember you. If you don't tip you won't ever get a good drink again. If you drink beer then I suppose that won't matter much to you. They'll just ignore you in line and serve others until you're the last person at the bar needing help.

[TacoTaru]

$6 and $8 an hour is NOTHING. How can you live off of that? You expect people to pay rent, bills, gas, food, ect. off of $8/hour? Yeah its "great money" for a high school student, but you know its not gonna cut it when they move out of mom and dad's home.

If you're an adult waiting tables expecting tips to turn your life around, grow up and get a real job.

The person who said going against the norms produces negative reactions is absolutely correct. The norm is to tip and if you don't you'll get it back to you in horrible service.

Unless you tip before you get your meal, your normally have the horrible service first.

[Seraph]

if every supermarket did it, guess what, you'd be okay with it. in certain parts of Asia, restaurants don't have napkins or tissues, you bring your own and if you ask them for it, they can and often do charge you on your bill.

and you're misrepresenting the case a little bit. 5 tables of 2 waited on by 5 different people purchase about the same amount of meals as 1 table of 10 waited on by 1 person. you're not actually increasing the level of purchase like you can at a supermarket when 1 guy can buy $10 worth of groceries and another guy can buy $200 worth.

No, I would be just as annoyed about it as I am with the resturants. I don't want to come off as the bad guy, and I know that the employees are not the ones I am fighting with this rant. Establishments WANT you to tip, because in the end, it makes them money because they have to pay their employees less. I never really understood why there are special laws in place for certain kind of work. Minimum wage becomes "Kinda Minimum Wage" in certain service fields, which I find pointless.

People can justify it all they want, but I still find the concept stupid.
*** Families with 8 or more haircuts will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***
*** Movie patrons with 8 or more members will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***
*** Cars with 8 or more occupents will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their toll. ***
*** Sports patrons with 8 or more members will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their ticket price. ***
*** Dining patrons with 8 or more will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***

Starts to seem really stupid once you think about it, doesn't it? Now, if they take the time to precalculate what 18% of the bill would be, and offer it as a suggestion, I don't have a problem with that. It's a little tacky, but at the same time, trying to nickle and dime people to the tune of 18-20% is tacky too.

[Dmitry]

$6-8 doesn't cut it as a student that makes a 40-mile round trip 2-4 days a week for school, on top of loan payment, books, etc.

Also the states that have laws saying you can pay someone who receives tips $2-3 an hour also have as part of that law that if the minimum wage is not reached with tips, the employer pays out the difference. I'm not sure about every state doing this, but if you tip because you don't think the server will make any money, you're just naive.

[TacoTaru]

$6-8 doesn't cut it as a student that makes a 40-mile round trip 2-4 days a week for school, on top of loan payment, books, etc.

Also the states that have laws saying you can pay someone who receives tips $2-3 an hour also have as part of that law that if the minimum wage is not reached with tips, the employer pays out the difference. I'm not sure about every state doing this, but if you tip because you don't think the server will make any money, you're just naive.

Most student loans start billing you 6 months after graduating or dropping out of school. The case with most people I know (myself included) you tend to have a few thousand extra dollars left over even after paying for school necessities. Granted this depends largely on where you attend and what your major is, but that is off loans alone. Add in pell grants, scholarships and other federal aid, and you can wind up with a handsome sum of cash leftover at the end of each semester. A friend of mind and her mom have given themselves "presents" every semester after they get all their grants and aid spent. (I think they both usuaally have about 2500+ extra per semester.)

[Dmitry]

I don't have control of mine. I think they basically set it up so I have enough to cover tuition for each quarter. I was told I needed to start making payments, but when I confronted the financial aid people about it they quickly stopped those.

[tyven]

People can justify it all they want, but I still find the concept stupid.
*** Families with 8 or more haircuts will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***
*** Movie patrons with 8 or more members will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***
*** Cars with 8 or more occupents will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their toll. ***
*** Sports patrons with 8 or more members will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their ticket price. ***
*** Dining patrons with 8 or more will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***

Starts to seem really stupid once you think about it, doesn't it? Now, if they take the time to precalculate what 18% of the bill would be, and offer it as a suggestion, I don't have a problem with that. It's a little tacky, but at the same time, trying to nickle and dime people to the tune of 18-20% is tacky too.

those examples are ridiculous. do you not understand the concept of one person trying to serve 8 at once, and how wildly different it is than 8 people sitting down in some movie seats, or riding in a car, or going to a sports game?

[Seraph]

People can justify it all they want, but I still find the concept stupid.
*** Families with 8 or more haircuts will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***
*** Movie patrons with 8 or more members will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***
*** Cars with 8 or more occupents will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their toll. ***
*** Sports patrons with 8 or more members will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their ticket price. ***
*** Dining patrons with 8 or more will be have an 18% gratutity automatically added to their bill. ***

Starts to seem really stupid once you think about it, doesn't it? Now, if they take the time to precalculate what 18% of the bill would be, and offer it as a suggestion, I don't have a problem with that. It's a little tacky, but at the same time, trying to nickle and dime people to the tune of 18-20% is tacky too.

those examples are ridiculous. do you not understand the concept of one person trying to serve 8 at once, and how wildly different it is than 8 people sitting down in some movie seats, or riding in a car, or going to a sports game?

And this is different than serving two tables of 4 people how?

[tyven]

And this is different than serving two tables of 4 people how?

when a host seats tables they rotate sections. this keeps servers from being overloaded by too many tables @ the same time. the difference between a table of four and a table of 8 is pretty ridiculous. keeping 8 drinks full, getting 8 orders put in perfectly, having the cooks prepare 8 different meals often cooked at different temps and from different parts of the line come up at roughly the same time correctly, its a serious fucking show. all of that in addition to every single other table in the section / restaurant.

it is much easier to serve two tables of four at the same time if they are staggered. when one tables food is being cooked it gives you a chance to greet/get drinks / put in order for table 2, after that point you should be serving table 1 while table 2's food is cooking, while table 2 is eating you get the chance to drop the check and handle payment of table 1. rinse and repeat. but really any party of more than 6 people, especially during lunch or dinner rush really does become a show. especially when its like a group of 10 that just walks in off the street without calling ahead @ 7pm on a friday night.

i dont understand why you find it so insulting that an 18% grat is included when the difficulty of the job doubles. the restaurant is trying to protect its employees from making shit when working extra hard. and if you receive shit service then you can simply refuse to pay the gratuity and generally get a large chunk of the bill taken off. when it comes down to it restaurants want to keep their guests happy so that they can have repeat business. idk if it was you that said a manager chased you down for not doing it, but that is illegal, next time call the cops or the corporate office and have him fired, thats just an idiot manager.

as for tips meaning the restaurants doesnt have to pay their employees thats not entirely true. when servers have to work harder to get a better tip its better for the restaurant as a whole. sure they could pay them hourly but more than likely the servers would do the bare minimum to get by and avoid complaints enough to keep their job. the bare minimum on a tip system nets them 10% if they are lucky, they actually have to work hard for the 20% which is what the restaurant wants out of its employees.

[Seraph]

i dont understand why you find it so insulting that an 18% grat is included when the difficulty of the job doubles. the restaurant is trying to protect its employees from making shit when working extra hard. and if you receive shit service then you can simply refuse to pay the gratuity and generally get a large chunk of the bill taken off. when it comes down to it restaurants want to keep their guests happy so that they can have repeat business. idk if it was you that said a manager chased you down for not doing it, but that is illegal, next time call the cops or the corporate office and have him fired, thats just an idiot manager.

Actually no, neither time I was given any hastle over it, and the funny part is, when I gave more than the 18% the one time, they asked me why I went to such a fuss, and after I explained it to them, they agreed that people usually never put up a fuss about it and just pay the suggested amount. However, they often don't pay more either. "Oh, they figured it out for me, I'll just pay that." I think that automatic tip issue can go both ways, and the managers reply seemed to support that idea.

The time the automatic tip was added and I paid less than the suggested tip was when was when I went to eat with a friend, and instead of ordering two entrees, he ordered an appitizer to eat as his meal instead. His dinner cost more than mine, but because of the "No sharing meals" rule the place had, they tacked on a larger tip, which I felt was bullshit. Not a surcharge, but a tip. We wern't trying to cheat the system, he just ordered something different off of the menu. No sharing of meals took place, and the waitress was just trying to be a bitch and get a bigger tip because she figured I wouldn't put up a fuss over it. The manager however, was very understanding, and admitted that we had not broken their policy. Two "meals" had been ordered, and the waitress was trying to screw us even though we stated our intention of having both delivered at the same time. It totally didn't help that she was a total bitch to us through the entire ordeal. Must have been a bad night, but no need to take it out on us. The manager offered us a discount, but as I told her, I had no problem with the food, just the server. I left about a 10% tip even though she deserved nothing except an upsidedown full water glass with some change in it. I don't like getting the "Bend over and take it; I am entitled to this" attitude from anyone.

And the resturant isn't protecting it's employees, it is just shifting the responsibility of a fair wage back to the customers (Which they need to do anyway, but noone else does it like this...). I generally feel like waiters/waitresses should make something closer to the tune of $10.00/hr and tipping shouldn't need to be as extreme. This would eliminate the threat of that "poor gamble" we have been talking about. They generally have to bust their ass, and I don't mind people getting paid what they are worth, I just think the system is kinda round-a-bout and leaves much room for error. You end up with people that don't tip, and shitty servers that expect awesome tips. Don't get me wrong, 95%+ of my dining experiences are extremely good, and I always try to treat the service well because I know that usually it will be returned in kind. However, the bad experiences always leave a poor taste in my mouth though. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Zoot]

No sharing meals? How stupid. My sister, niece and I always share a dessert because each of us can't finish one. That's just retarded, who the hell tells you how you eat.

In that situation I would have left her a quarter as a statement. If you're observant you can usually tell when a waiter or waitress is having a hard time, and that's when I cut them some slack. But not if they're being asses about anything or not at least trying to show me that the customer is always right.