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  1. #1

    Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Before everyone does:

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    I would like to assure you I've read ALL 4 Absolute Virtue threads on BG consisting of over 120 pages and 2000 posts and I have yet to see this theory suggested. But before I disclose that I'd like everyone to take a moment to read at least the starting post of "Absolute Virtue and You: A Learning Experience" if you have not already. This post does contain all the videos of SE's Absolute Virtue fight as well as all the interviews disclosing any possible relevant information on how to beat him.

    Formally, I ALWAYS like to think from a very logical stand point because programming is a bitch. You simply cannot code an HNM with a gazillion different conditionals required to be met before you can beat him, which is what most theories seem to entail. Programmers are lazy bitches, and SE are lazy bitches, and we all know too well that this NM shouldn't be nearly as complicated as people make it out to be.

    Firstly, I'd like to focus a majority of the time line of this theory to go in conjunction with the methods used by SE to beat AV in their video. Why you ask? Because that is how you beat him. There is simply no other reason SE would go out of their way to create a faulty video with absolutely (no pun intended) no substance. Their tactics of battle may be questionable aka: restoring 2 hours, melee'ing rdms, no aerns up at any time, or kiting wynavs, but I will assure you that this video was trying to prove nothing less then the strategy on how to beat him.

    That being said, in the thread posted above there is one key part that always strikes me as interesting. This is the fact that SE put so much emphasis on the idea of breaking Absolute Virtues Regen.

    The regen effect will be cut in half by defeating as many of the Ru'phuabos, Qn'xzomits, and Qn'hpemdes summoned by the Jailer of Love as possible. In addition, using an elemental based attack that corresponds to the current day of the week (i.e. using Fire spells on Firesday) will stop the remaining regen effect.
    This was the very first hint given for breaking the regen. It's questionable as to whether or not they implied that casting the same spell of the day on JoL would break Absolute Virtues regen, or casting on Absolute Virtue would or all of this entirely referred to JoL and SE's retarded. Maybe someone can clear this up for me.

    We cannot give you any other tips besides if you kill the monsters around him, it will slow the regen ability.
    paraphrasing Sundi emphasizes on the speed on the fight being a key factor in beating as well as waiting until the regen is completely broken before it's possible to beat him.
    So 4 main points to breaking the regen notably are:


    1. Defeating as many of the Ru'phuabos, Qn'xzomits, and Qn'hpemdes summoned by the Jailer of Love as possible
    2. Casting Spell of Day on JoL to break AV's Regen (needs clarification)
    3. Killing monsters around Absolute Virtue, specifically 2 Aerns - theories include killing these to lock AV 2 hours
    4. Casting spell of day on Absolute Virtue to break AV's Regen


    At this point everyone is probably wondering, "So whats new? what's the big catch? we know all this..." and I'd like to focus on one entire key part that everyone seems to be overlooking through the entire SE Video. As soon as they finish breaking Absolute Virtues regen in the video by casting the spell based on the day, they: Don't cast a single black mage nuke through the entire course of the video. I don't understand how this could be overlooked so blatantly. I've analyzed all videos thoroughly and they don't cast any spells while using Manafont and the only notable nuke is right at the end of the fight (Thunder III/IV) as a kill shot nuke.

    I personally believe that if you take these 4 things out of question hypothetically you are left with an entirely manageable fight:


    1. Regen
    2. Wynavs
    3. Manafont/Meteor
    4. Benediction


    Because this is only a theory, I'm not going to write something that says THIS IS HOW YOU KILL HIM because that's not obviously how it works. In the video, they do have a party of white mages Cure Bombing the Paladin. They are using full barspells and other sorts of questionable resist gear to help absorb Aero spells. So no matter what you do this isn't going to be a melee burned stun locked ass fuck of a 40 second hnm fight. One thing that always bothered me with Absolute Virtue fights is that no one is really in the frame of mind to fight him after the long tedious JoL fight, which is probably why most theories are never tested considerably well.

    So in summary of this theory the methods of beating/testing are as follows:

    1. Break regen on Absolute Virtue in every way possible mentioned above.
    2. Do not cast a single black mage nuke after regen is notably depleted
    3. Use 2 hours when Absolute Virtue does to considerably decrease his strength and aggressiveness. This has NOT been tested while NOT casting a single black mage nuke on AV AFTER his regen has been broken.
    4. ???
    5. Profit


    An alternative version of this theory also suggests that because black mage spells seem to be avoided upon during the video. It's possible that while trying to break the last of his regen he will increase in strength considerably during this period. So it's critical to cast your spells on AV as quickly as possible to clear the last of the regen.*edit: Vajra (Titan) pointed out to me that they don't use any weapon skills until the very end of the fight as well so that may very well be included in the same methods as not casting black mage spells.

    All questions and comments/concerns are greatly appreciated.
    For those that managed to make it through this pain staking debunking process I reward you with a:

    http://www.sallys-place.com/food/col..._Cookie-20.jpg

  2. #2

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    I prefer macadamia nut cookies.

  3. #3
    Every day I'm wafflin'
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    o lawd

  4. #4
    Im not from Harlem, or black.
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    I don't think anyone has the will to try over and over again, I know I don't, or my linkshell. it's much easier to just say, "fuck se, it's broken, we have 10 kc drks, and it's not dead, it's broken!"

    guess I'll have to rmt to get my raphael's rod =(

  5. #5
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    I'm not really seeing anything that hasn't been suggested before, aside from the fact that you want people to go through the entire fight without WSing or nuking past a certain point.

    My question to you, since you asked for questions, is this:

    Are you in a linkshell capable of killing JoL? If so, why haven't you tried this yourself? If not, don't you think that maybe a lot of other linkshells have already tried and are tired of losing their EXP? I'm all for killing AV, but if you're suggesting a theory without trying it yourself, or even being able to do so, then you're just pushing off your "work" on someone else. That's being very lazy.

  6. #6

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Therin
    then you're just pushing off your "work" on someone else. That's being very lazy.
    How is posting this pushing my work off on someone else? It's a theory that's open to subjective testing and not enforced at all.

    I am in a linkshell capable of killing JoL, and if we spawn Absolute Virtue, we will try this. But until then, feel free to try whatever you want, but trying nothing is worse then this.

  7. #7

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    I know everyone just wants to be all lolanotherAVtheoryhahahasundigotohell but maybe when they said the speed of the fight is wrong they are actually talking about what this guy just suggested?
    Anyway im done with this post since I have zero reason to be here for not playing ffxi or even having sea access in the years+ I played, but THF only and more enemies then good friends had more to do with that then anything.



    AFK googling stuff

  8. #8

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by shihei
    I know everyone just wants to be all lolanotherAVtheoryhahahasundigotohell but maybe when they said the speed of the fight is wrong they are actually talking about what this guy just suggested?
    That is an excellent point that I didn't even acknowledge; the fact that you don't use magic or weapon skills would considerably increase the length of the fight, and when sundi says speed everyone thinks you have to kill him super fast.

  9. #9
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Avanarius
    I am in a linkshell capable of killing JoL, and if we spawn Absolute Virtue, we will try this. But until then, feel free to try whatever you want, but trying nothing is worse then this.
    Awesome, excellent, beautiful. Thanks for posting your theory, it was an interesting read, now go test it and give us the results that you find.

    I know I sound like a jerk, but I'm serious - until you've tried this yourself, all you're doing is saying, "Hey guys, here's the strategy that I plan on putting up against AV next time we pop him. I haven't the slightest clue whether it'll work or not, so this post is pretty much entirely unnecessary, but I just figured I'd let you all know."

    More power to you if you're going to go test it. I wish you the best, and I'm sure the rest of the forums do too. But right now I don't think anyone else wants to read more AV topics unless some progress is being made. Sorry.

    And for the record, this has been thought of before, I specifically remember it being discussed in the threads which you referenced - you're right in saying that it hasn't been tested, but it has definitely been discussed.

  10. #10

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Therin
    Quote Originally Posted by Avanarius
    I am in a linkshell capable of killing JoL, and if we spawn Absolute Virtue, we will try this. But until then, feel free to try whatever you want, but trying nothing is worse then this.
    I know I sound like a jerk, but I'm serious - until you've tried this yourself, all you're doing is saying, "Hey guys, here's the strategy that I plan on putting up against AV next time we pop him. I haven't the slightest clue whether it'll work or not, so this post is pretty much entirely unnecessary, but I just figured I'd let you all know."
    I do understand where you're coming from as I did go through and read the most mind numbing theories on how to beat him I could ever possibly fathom, and I'm not posting to 'enforce' people to try it. I am seriously just looking for feedback before I try as people are more likely to know what has already been tried if I missed anything.

  11. #11

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Well ok I said I wouldn't be back here but Therin needs to stop being a cunt that wants penis yet deflects the penetration so others(not me) can seriously discuss AV without siding with his 'this guyz are noobz' pov.
    It could very well be that a lengthy discussion by people who are willing, wanting and waning could end the mystery of ....nvm

  12. #12
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by shihei
    Well ok I said I wouldn't be back here but Therin needs to stop being a cunt that wants penis yet deflects the penetration
    That's a very descriptive analogy.

  13. #13

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    When I first watched the video this is the same thing i thought.

  14. #14
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Meritted barspells, with Bar+ gear makes plds take like 40% of the normal damage they'd take from like Tornado II from the random stuff I've tried when my LS gets an AV pop, and I can usually cure bomb that pld for a decent amount of time considering its by myself, and its a PLD/RDM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    It's a fantastic idea and I appreciate the time you took to come up with the theory, however, since you've read all the threads you know the first thing that everyone was going to say was try it yourself and post the results. It's not that the idea's are bad, it's that people are jaded and have explored a lot of options already, if someone comes up with a new one, they're not going to be inclined to try it without some proof of potential.

  16. #16
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by jaryk
    and have explored a lot of options already
    That's unfortunately not true. :/

  17. #17

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TB
    Quote Originally Posted by jaryk
    and have explored a lot of options already
    That's unfortunately not true. :/
    I think people have explored dying over and over with a little of casting a spell and coming to a conclusion

    sarcasm aside it's mostly people over analyzing the NM and not analyzing what we know and the whole picture.

  18. #18
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Avanarius
    Quote Originally Posted by TB
    Quote Originally Posted by jaryk
    and have explored a lot of options already
    That's unfortunately not true. :/
    I think people have explored dying over and over with a little of casting a spell and coming to a conclusion

    sarcasm aside it's mostly people over analyzing the NM and not analyzing what we know and the whole picture.
    You say you read all the threads, but then you say this. There were a LOT of exhaustive tests done by MULTIPLE linkshells attempting a variety of different strategies in the weeks following the release of SE's video. I don't think you realize how much work was actually done.

  19. #19

    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    well help me out and refer me to those posts please (that obviously specifically relate to my OP)

  20. #20
    Banned.

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    Re: Absolute Virtue and Me: Back to the Beginning of 2006

    I usually try not to post anything serious in AV threads, but...

    Honestly, there wasn't really all that much testing going on.
    Props to Demo LS and all those guys, but there were what... 3-4 other LS messing with AV at all in those threads, right?

    There's just too many variables and SE won't give us a reasonable hint.

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